Is there any better argument against intelligent design that the human mouth/teeth?

reply to post by chrome413


In all fairness the title clearly states "argument against intelligent design" so it's what you should expect.

reply to post by MrConspiracy


The OP clearly states the human mouth as the argument against intelligent design. Not any argument anyone can think of, but the human mouth.

The eyeball holds better argument for intelligent design. It has never radically changed

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by MrConspiracy

 

It's also interesting that you hold all your beliefs on Science. Something that changes it's mind constantly. Perhaps we don't know everything yet. Some of the most vastly believe theories throughout time have proven to be wrong. Tell me that in 300 years from now, people will be laughing at us for the conclusions we've made.

Science doesn't change its mind constantly. There are refinements and new ideas, but things like Newtonian physics are still used today. Even before there was science there was the flat Earth model. A flat Earth model is stilled used today.

Please be aware, that the "flat earth model" is an urban myth. There never was a consensus on the earth being flat. Among literates (church and other past intellectuals) the earth was always round. However, like many of these myths, they seem to be persistent. Sadly.

reply to post by CriticalCK

Please be aware, that the "flat earth model" is an urban myth. There never was a consensus on the earth being flat. Among literates (church and other past intellectuals) the earth was always round. However, like many of these myths, they seem to be persistent. Sadly.

I was referring to the Sumerians and others. It is an urban myth that later groups considered a flat Earth. The astrolabe clearly shows that people were solving round earth problems a long time ago.

reply to post by MrConspiracy


I agree that science is not the answer for everything, nor is religion.

Originally posted by Buffalo Soldier
Why did we evolve to be naked? Why did all our hair/fur decide to just drop off so that we became naked? If we had hair and fur why would it ever disappear? You can't say because we started wearing clothes because there would have been no reason to wear clothes had we had hair and fur at the time.

Because we spent a whole lot of time fishing at rivers in africa. Also notice the nose and the direction of body hair which makes us rather good swimmers.

I've always loved the fact that evolution just 'happens' to take millions and millions of years basically making it impossible to prove by reproducing the results in a lab.

The speed of evolution depends on the speed of reproduction - among other factors. For instance, evolution of bacteria is observable.

Also I'd love to see how the creatures that soar in the sky grew wings and learnt how to fly... did they stand there swinging their arms trying to lift off for millions of years and generations and eventually wings just sprouted from their upper arms?

Don't be silly. Evolution takes time, and you just said so, a second ago, so why would you say someting that stupid?

I'd love someone to explain to me why on earth we evolved to be physically weaker in every aspect, we are so very susceptible to diseases.

If evolution is a real thing why do we even need stuff like vaccines?

Guess what. Bacteria evolve too. So do humans, which is observable by observing the immune system. Malaria, many africans have become immune to the disease. The cold and the flu- caucasians have a stronger immune system, because our ancestors lived in cold enviroments where the flu was more common. Unfortunately this also results in more allergies and other auto-immune diseases among caucasians.

Also, you didnt understand the concept of evolution if you think that physical strength would be prove for it. It's all about the success rate of reproduction. See rats. However, for evolution to work, there needs to be a survival of the fittest stuation - which human no longer have. Some scientist believe that humans were smarter some millenia ago. People who believe in intelligent design are the living prove.

Also you guys must really ask yourselves why humans are so much more intelligent than animals, the gap between the intelligence of the smartest type of animal versus humans is huge.

Survival of the fittest for humans involved socializing. Observe social animals, they are the smartest (dolpins, orcas, dogs). Humans socialize to an extent, no animal does.

If creationism is wrong, evolution sure as hell is NOT the right answer. It has far too many flaws.

It is the right answer and it has no flaws. It's just that you have way too many stupid questions which are easely answered if you didnt refuse to think for yourself. Also you have a bad understanding of evolution.

They can say A + B + C = X, X does this Y does this which creates Z there you have it science! The ignorant masses lap it up, they're not going to argue against a scientist.

It's not called ignorance, it's logic and reason. You know the things you and others of minor intellect disapprove.

Teeth determine longevity, but many who have the money (the latest being the idiot Snookie who bragged about her new teeth on a talk show) cheat at this because they take the lazy way out, but they have been told that their health is equal to their dental decay, or lack of.

further info: Longevity and Historical Diets: The Raw Deal www.ancientway.com...

reply to post by Monger


Men's nipples?

Originally posted by Monger
Are there actually any confirmed creationists here? Because as far as I’m concerned, accepting evolution as fact does not - or at least should not - get in the way of your own personal religious beliefs. Whether you’re a ‘young earth creationist,’ or an ‘old earth creationist,’ I want to hear how you or other creationists account for the evolutionary dumpster fire that is the human mouth.

More specifically, I’m talking about the human teeth. I personally can’t think of a better argument against so-called intelligent design than the fact that our mouths are too small to fit all of our teeth. According to science as I understand it, our teeth evolved at a time when our early hominid ancestors were still chomping on big hulking tubers and other substantial starchy goodies. Mind you, I’m not an evolutionary biologist or a paleoanthropologist, just an interested layman on the subject.

Later, as I recall, our ancestors began to supplement their diet with raw scavenged meat, which they found they liked very much indeed. Later still, either by accident or just an example of people putting two and two together, folks discovered that cooked meat was soooo much better than raw meat. And, as it turned out, cooking meat breaks up a lot of the protein and makes the whole thing easier to digest and therefore easier for our bodies to absorb. This caused a rapid explosion in human brain size, which led in a very roundabout way to us, today, sitting in front of our magical glowing information machines.

Over the preceding years, because cooked meat/veggies are so much easier to chew, our jaws and mandibles have shrunk considerably, while our teeth have remained more or less unchanged for millions of years.

Take wisdom teeth, for example. Evolutionarily, they would have served a function as extra grinding teeth for our distant ancestors who had much larger mandibles. For us, though, all they really do is cause a lot of grief. They can get impacted, they can get infected, but mostly they just get intensely painful.

Mine have finally all erupted, but not without doing damage to some of my perfectly functional teeth. I can’t afford to visit the dentist often, so I’ve always been very careful about brushing and flossing, but regardless when my wisdom teeth erupted they came up and out in such a way that, over time, one molar on each side was cracked to such an extent that I needed to have them extracted. Fortunately for me they were way in the back, lest they should impact my perfect smile (lol.).

If I’ve said something in the thread thats demonstrably untrue, please feel free to correct me.

TL;DR version- My question is, why would an allegedly intelligent designer give us too many teeth to fit in our mouths?

edit on 2/22/2013 by Monger because: An abundance of typos.

edit on 2/23/2013 by Monger because: (no reason given)

edit on 2/23/2013 by Monger because: (no reason given)

The best "intelligently designed system" would be a system which designed itself right?
We have that already in nature.
Limbo
Many theories lay claim to brain size etc. Which one is true?
www4.dr-rath-foundation.org...

Im starting my watch now.... Let me know when you have created a better biological being. Id like to know what materials you decide to use, where you will get the energy from, and what mechanism you come up with for consciousness. The universe is stupid, you are intelligent...should be easy for you to do this.

OK, YOU, ARE UNDER EDUCATED AND LIVE IN A WORLD OF LIES. HERE IS THE TRUTH:

Originally posted by Monger
so-called intelligent design than the fact that our mouths are too small to fit all of our teeth.

LIES, The truth is our modern diet does not provide some of the key factors for truly healthy development. This has all been studied and scientifically verified by the head of the American dental association Dr. Weston A Price. He wrote a book decades ago called Nutrition and Physical Degeneration. In it he spends many years traveling the world doing scientific studies on primitive and modern cultures of the time. IN EVERT CASE ACROSS THE PLANET. It is when cultures moved away from their tradition diets to modern diets of processed foods (eg, white bread, vs, truly whole wheat, or more importantly perhaps wheat instead of rye and oats, away from eating the full carcases of animals instead of eating the nutritious origins that the primitive people and animals all recognized as the most important part to consume, we started throwing out everything but the muscle tissue. things like bone marrow and boiled fish heads, etc. We also stopped eating "RAW" "GRASSFED" Cheeses and dairy. It is now pretty much illegal to get them, but they are the key to a truly healthy body jaw and teeth. They contain a certain type of vitamin that we can not make a suitable chemistry replica of. ONLY by consuming those foods can you get it, and you need a lot of it. You need lots of healthy animal fats (not fats from unhealthy feed feed farm raised, but real wild animals who have had a truly nutritious diet).

Dr. Price noted in his book (which has much photographic evidence BTW), that even in cultures that filed down their teeth, the people were naturally cavity free. He developed a protocol for healing cavities based on nutritional recommendation which a person in today's world would be hard pressed to live up to, but he did it with kids in a modern society by setting up places where he fed these children who had dental problems at least one proper meal day and they all had radical shifts to better health, no cavities, and even went from being like ADD in school to being smart and effective. All of the things you need to consume for healthy teeth are in his book Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, but most of the book is scientific evidence for it all. There is another book call Cure Tooth Decay by Remial Nagel who has done the closest thing to a modern day followup that I could find.

The truth is , teeth can heal, they have microscopic tubes that transport nutrient through them (this is what hurts if you have sensitivity to sugar or temperature). When a culture starts adopting western diets, it all of a sudden starts getting cavities (THEY ARE DUE TO LACK OF NUTRITION< NOT BACTERIA!), The future generations immediately begin to show signs of physical degeneration from strong robust bodies into week, narrow bodies, NARROW JAWS, NARROW FACES, NARROW SHOULDERS. This is the sign of a culture on a modern diet of nutritionally dead foods (I know the nutrition content is listed on the label, but it doesn't come close, some things can not be packaged except in a live animal that itself ate a healthy diet.

Its not about cooked vs raw meat, its about GRASS FED vs dry straw fed, and things like that. Go get the books, they will change your life. My dental situation has much improved since I began eating according to the recommendations.

P.S.- People like "Romans" may be ancient to us, but they were on the beginning of a "modern" diet and as such had worse teeth and the more primitive people they conquered. Cultures that did move towards modern things like agriculture over hunting, did start to get some few cavities but for the most part they kept their sacred foods. Things like the Scandinavians and vikings who had big vats of fermented cod liver oil, this gave them the critical key component they needed to have healthy teeth, it's considered a sacred food for a reason. The Eskimos didn't eat any tubers or crap like that but their diets full of wild animal fat provided the key nutrient. Villages int eh Swiss alps had the grass fed raw cheese on rye bread which saved them. (real rye bread is not like what you by in the store). Some of these places were just starting to go modern when he found them, in the villages that had gone modern a few years before having had roads connected to them and therefor modern foods trucked in; they all of a sudden started having dental problems and smaller jaws.

NO ONE CAN READ "Nutrition and physical degeneration" and come out of it thinking that it's not anything but quality science. The guy was the head of the American Dental Association. The ADA is now a corrupt shadow of its former self (no money in healthy teeth if you're a dentist). Read the book, discover the undeniable truth for yourself.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Bone75

 

I suppose my statement could have been seen as disrespect...but I asure you that was not my intention.

My true intention was to make you aware that in the same way you have your strong beliefs...so do I except my beliefs are based upon what can be proven as a fact or what is possible.

It is not that I either do or do not believe in a GOD...the jury is still out on that and given there is zero amount of evidence or proof for this...I cannot believe or state that a GOD exists.

Split Infinity

And I mean no disrespect either, i'm simply trying to understand how 2 people can be exposed to much of the same information, yet still come to such drastically different conclusions. Maybe one of us missed something?

I've asked you a couple of times how the first life form came to be, and all you've been able to offer is a vague overview of how quantum evolution and atomic fusion work. The 2 are great for explaining how matter is formed, but what I want to know is how you make the leap from matter to life.

I'm sure you understand just how complex even the most primitive strand of DNA must have been. The function of the enzymes and nucleic acid alone should make one take pause when dismissing the idea of a creator, yet you are ready to declare that the development of life doesn't require one.

So I guess what I'm asking is, what about quantum evolution has led you to believe that this is how life was formed, where is that defining piece of info that sealed the deal for you, and allowed you to make this claim with a clear conscience?

reply to post by NJoyZ




The book is available online.


Nutrition and Physical Degeneration

reply to post by NJoyZ

NO ONE CAN READ "Nutrition and physical degeneration" and come out of it thinking that it's not anything but quality science. The guy was the head of the American Dental Association. The ADA is now a corrupt shadow of its former self (no money in healthy teeth if you're a dentist). Read the book, discover the undeniable truth for yourself.

So what does avoiding foods that lead to dental disease have to do with intelligent design?

It's well known that eating certain foods leads to dental problems. Every dentist that I have had explained this to me.

i don't know why any proponent of the bible's version of the creation of humans, would still be here arguing the point. the text will tell you if you read it, that we were created in the exact image of the gods. we had eternally regenerating bodies with no shut off date, and new adam were created via copying/cloning rather than reproduction, so no pain in childbirth. THEN that all changed. what you see today is a result of our dna being deliberately nerfed to keep us from reproducing out of control, living forever, over populating the planet, and going out among the stars and other planets in our fallen condition.

as a result, the op's argument as far as the intelligent designer(s) of the bible is concerned, is irrelevant.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by NJoyZ

 

NO ONE CAN READ "Nutrition and physical degeneration" and come out of it thinking that it's not anything but quality science. The guy was the head of the American Dental Association. The ADA is now a corrupt shadow of its former self (no money in healthy teeth if you're a dentist). Read the book, discover the undeniable truth for yourself.

So what does avoiding foods that lead to dental disease have to do with intelligent design?

It's well known that eating certain foods leads to dental problems. Every dentist that I have had explained this to me.

My point is only that people having narrow jaws is not an indication of faulty design, it's an indication of faulty feeding. You're body is designed (either by nature, God(s), or evolution) from an exquisite, high functioning blueprint in your DNA, but having a master blueprint is not enough, you body must be built in a certain period of time and if you do not provide enough lumber, nails, and screws, then you are going to have a poorly built house. The body must build itself with what you give it, if you don't give it enough of EACH AND EVERY raw material that it needs, then your going to have certain parts of your perfect blueprint come out not looking right in reality. If you have body malfunctions, it's because of what you've eaten. Luckily the father of modern medicine in who's name all doctors to this day swear an oath, said "Let thy food be thy medicine and thy medicine be thy food". Learn to eat right and you can keep your house from falling down even though you built it with out enough screws and nails int eh first place.

reply to post by NJoyZ


You're assuming that everybody won the genetic lottery and was born with teeth which were placed and formed perfectly in the first place. When my wisdom teeth came out, they came out from under and behind perfectly functional molars, wreaking havoc on them. I fail to see how my diet influenced that.

Was your post really so important that you needed to PM me to tell me how stupid and uneducated I am, and how poor you imagine my diet is? Spare me the condescending lecture, please. I'm a grown adult.

Originally posted by Enemyc0mbatant
The eyeball holds better argument for intelligent design. It has never radically changed

You think!!!



Watch all 5 parts

If there is a god then he is far from being perfect he really screwed up on some designs.

Certainly not all powerful or he could fix the mistakes he made.


Why the hell would he design rabbits to eat their own poop?


He should have a suggestion box somewhere like some businesses do we could fill out pages to correct his design flaws.


Either god screwed up or there is no god.