Is there any better argument against intelligent design that the human mouth/teeth?

Are there actually any confirmed creationists here? Because as far as I’m concerned, accepting evolution as fact does not - or at least should not - get in the way of your own personal religious beliefs. Whether you’re a ‘young earth creationist,’ or an ‘old earth creationist,’ I want to hear how you or other creationists account for the evolutionary dumpster fire that is the human mouth.

More specifically, I’m talking about the human teeth. I personally can’t think of a better argument against so-called intelligent design than the fact that our mouths are too small to fit all of our teeth. According to science as I understand it, our teeth evolved at a time when our early hominid ancestors were still chomping on big hulking tubers and other substantial starchy goodies. Mind you, I’m not an evolutionary biologist or a paleoanthropologist, just an interested layman on the subject.

Later, as I recall, our ancestors began to supplement their diet with raw scavenged meat, which they found they liked very much indeed. Later still, either by accident or just an example of people putting two and two together, folks discovered that cooked meat was soooo much better than raw meat. And, as it turned out, cooking meat breaks up a lot of the protein and makes the whole thing easier to digest and therefore easier for our bodies to absorb. This caused a rapid explosion in human brain size, which led in a very roundabout way to us, today, sitting in front of our magical glowing information machines.

Over the preceding years, because cooked meat/veggies are so much easier to chew, our jaws and mandibles have shrunk considerably, while our teeth have remained more or less unchanged for millions of years.

Take wisdom teeth, for example. Evolutionarily, they would have served a function as extra grinding teeth for our distant ancestors who had much larger mandibles. For us, though, all they really do is cause a lot of grief. They can get impacted, they can get infected, but mostly they just get intensely painful.

Mine have finally all erupted, but not without doing damage to some of my perfectly functional teeth. I can’t afford to visit the dentist often, so I’ve always been very careful about brushing and flossing, but regardless when my wisdom teeth erupted they came up and out in such a way that, over time, one molar on each side was cracked to such an extent that I needed to have them extracted. Fortunately for me they were way in the back, lest they should impact my perfect smile (lol.).

If I’ve said something in the thread thats demonstrably untrue, please feel free to correct me.

TL;DR version- My question is, why would an allegedly intelligent designer give us too many teeth to fit in our mouths?

reply to post by Monger


If human teeth were intelligently designed then they would grow back after they are knocked out.

reply to post by Wide-Eyes


I've always envied the sharks for their teeth. One gets lost someplace, in a fish or in a diver's leg or whatnot, and there's always another one right there to fill it's place.

I have although thought that it would be excellent if our milk teeth could be replaced by stainless steel teeth-no cavities,no breakages,no dentistry needed-perfect!

reply to post by Monger


While you are making an excellent point I fear that using logic & reason will come to no avail as the creationists demonstrably either don't understand or ignore both.

Why argue with a religious fanatic.
If a grown man comes to you & extols the virtues of Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny would you think any reasoned argument could sway him from his beliefs?

Belief requires no basis in reality, no proofs, no reason, so attempting to have rational discussion is fruitless at best & mind achingly painful at worst.

Best of luck to you though.

Well, the evidence is that we are continually evolving, those who claim otherwise seem to wear blinkers. Anyways, I think we will eventually lose wisdom teeth altogether.

edit - Source

Anthropologists believe wisdom teeth, or the third set of molars, were the evolutionary answer to our ancestor’s early diet of coarse, rough food – like leaves, roots, nuts and meats – which required more chewing power and resulted in excessive wear of the teeth. The modern diet with its softer foods, along with marvels of modern technologies such as forks, spoons and knives, has made the need for wisdom teeth nonexistent. As a result, evolutionary biologists now classify wisdom teeth as vestigial organs, or body parts that have become functionless due to evolution.

Some people are born with two sets top and bottom but I agree with one of the above posters. If they are such an intelligent design, why don't they have the ability to replicate themselves once they are removed?

Hello, I'm a new user and I'm a confirmed believer in intelligent design. You say that the human mouth is too small for all of our teeth, but what do you consider "too small"? Is your mouth so cramped that you cannot comfortably chew your food? Last time I checked evolution was indeed still a theory and not a fact. Other users can talk down to believers in intelligent design and people of faith all they want, but it still takes a certain degree of faith to believe in evolution. Evolution has never been proven, otherwise it would be called "evolution fact" and not "evolution theory". When did evolution stop? Has anyone been witness to a species evolving before their eyes? Before anyone posts any negative responses, know that I respect your beliefs, whatever they may be, and I'm not trying to troll this thread. I just thought I would post from the point of view of the intelligent design side because the OP asked for confirmed believers. Thanks for reading.

reply to post by Monger


Evolutionary biologist Jerry Coyne listed some great arguments against intelligent design. Why would humans, five months after inception, grow a coat of hair (called the lanugo) when it's a comfortable 98.6 degrees in utero? This is clearly a remnant of our ancestral relationship to primates. There are plenty of genes that get silenced and remain nonfunctional.

Also, if we were intelligently designed, how come we do not possess the ability to regenerate limbs, intestines, hearts, eyes, and other organs like newts (aquatic amphibians)? I guess this innominate intelligent designer has an inclination for favoritism.

reply to post by freedomlover79

Hello, I'm a new user and I'm a confirmed believer in intelligent design. You say that the human mouth is too small for all of our teeth, but what do you consider "too small"? Is your mouth so cramped that you cannot comfortably chew your food? Last time I checked evolution was indeed still a theory and not a fact.

First you need to learn what is meant by a theory in science. It is not a wacko, off the cuff guess as theory is used int he vernacular. A theory explains a set of facts. Evolution is well established as a fact. There are also evolutionary theories that explain the fact of evolution.

Second, you need to learn about wisdom teeth and often they are impacted.

Other users can talk down to believers in intelligent design and people of faith all they want, but it still takes a certain degree of faith to believe in evolution.

That is false. Evolution theories deal with objective data that can be independently checked.

Evolution has never been proven, otherwise it would be called "evolution fact" and not "evolution theory".

Once you learn a little about science you won't be saying things like that. Learn what a fact and what a theory is in terms of science.

When did evolution stop? Has anyone been witness to a species evolving before their eyes? Before anyone posts any negative responses, know that I respect your beliefs, whatever they may be, and I'm not trying to troll this thread. I just thought I would post from the point of view of the intelligent design side because the OP asked for confirmed believers. Thanks for reading.

Don't get all hostile on me after reading this post. I am simply trying to point out confusion on your part. I have been to quite a few creationist lectures to learn what creationists have to say. I notice that no effort is made to explain to people what a theory is and frankly the lecturers appear to try and confuse the audience.

Learn basic ideas about fact and theory. They apply to all of the sciences.

reply to post by stereologist


Please cite your sources. And don't worry about me getting "all hostile". I live in the real world where we can still have civil discourse.

I haven't thought about the poor layout of the human mouth.

I usually think about some of the poor signalling of the heart which has an inherent flaw which cause things like young athletes dieing of heart attacks. The human eye has the nutty situation where the blood vessels are between the image and the rods and cones. We essentially look through a tangle of blood vessels.

There are just lots of things that evolution has led us into that are not good ideas. Then again evolution is not goal driven. There is no plan or design.

Thanks for adding another interesting idea to the not designed list.

reply to post by freedomlover79


What would you like sources for? If its the meaning of words in science try some of these:

en.wikipedia.org...

Then look around for fact and see how facts are not the same as truth.

reply to post by stereologist


Theory is the analysis of a set of facts, but it does not mean that the sum of the facts equals the whole. Where is the "missing link" of evolution that has not been theorized (is that the wrong word in this case?) by science?

Originally posted by freedomlover79
reply to post by stereologist

 

Theory is the analysis of a set of facts, but it does not mean that the sum of the facts equals the whole. Where is the "missing link" of evolution that has not been theorized (is that the wrong word in this case?) by science?

"Missing link" is an unscientific description. If you're referring to human evolution, then there are plenty of transitional fossils.

reply to post by Monger


Human Beings are now being born without wisdom teeth as these teeth are no longer needed as we no longer grind down hard and heavy plant matter as we eat food that has been prepared.

As far as there being a better example to disprove Intelligent Design...Genetics and Genome Comparison is the way to go.


Split Infinity

reply to post by IEtherianSoul9


I'm referring to any form of evolution. Cite ANY sources that are fact/truth (not Wikipedia, which is not exactly reliable) to show any tangible evidence of evolution. For example, fish X existed, then fish Z existed and had almost the exact same make-up of fish X. So, obviously, there MUST have been a fish Y to link the evolution. We're not limited to fish, but please cite whatever facts/truths you can. Thanks.

reply to post by freedomlover79


There is no one, single 'missing link' type fossil that we can point to and say 'yup, that one right there is the one.' between man and ape. Mankind evolved alongside apes, not from them, but instead from a series of transitional species, for example, Ardi.

My point being, Ardi is just one of many. There are examples dating back millions of years before even Ardipithecus. One example of a much earlier transitional species is Sahelanthropus, but there are several others, some dating back even farther.

reply to post by freedomlover79


On this subject, wiki is a perfectly valid source. If you don't like the source I present you, then do you own damn research. Such a cheap ploy to ignore perfectly valid arguments that are presented to you.

reply to post by Monger


Even "Ardi" on Wikipedia says that there is no proof that homo sapiens trace their origins to this being... Are we talking "theories" again? I asked for tangible proof. Or should I go back to one of my first questions of "when did evolution stop"? And that brings a new question. Why did it stop?