The reasons why your "bugout plan" will absolutely fail!

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posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 09:20 AM
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reply to post by sirbadazz
 


Um....

I get it... you don't like that people are stupid and think they are getting prepared, even when they're not.

But as far as "not being able to live off the land" for more than a year or so even in the greatest circumstances. Two words.

Ted #ing Kaczynski

and he was a very young school teacher with no prior training and simply the desire to live on his own.





posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 09:47 AM
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reply to post by Ahabstar
 



Communities have been decimated by a purposeful effort to dismantle them by all kinds of means, tactics and efforts. But that's for another thread.

Millions of people are so lost that reality for them is "me me me" , some are struggling to survive and are quite aware what ti soging on but do not have the means to do much about it. Others are so below the poverty level struggling just to be awake each day..the disabled and the elderly.. that any thoight of this mess is too stressful for them to bear. Others are tools of the distraction tactics.. Some watching Dances with the Stars, some the Jersy Shore.. go figure.. Television and the internet has done it's job.
It's given us the illsuion that we are informed, while giiving our leaders yet another way to monitor the herd.

It isn't that I am cyincal as much as facing reality. NO one person will know who will survive etc and how.. we can take all the precautions in the world and trip and break a leg. **** happens. IT isn't waht is happening to you so much though, that maters anyway. What matters is what you do with what you have. You only have the present it's a gift. Past is gone the future not here yet. I think at times of all the time wasted dissecting what is what in the world. Back and forth endless human hours wasted. When , if those same folks were out in their community helping others, the world would have already been a better place.

I see the "net"and the "web" for what they are; traps.

This is our biggest enemy ... Not each other not some politician but our own apathy and unwillingness to translate our words into action. If govts no matter who runs it are evil..
do the opposite.. do good


It's that simple

all the words in the world won't change that fact



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 09:56 AM
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reply to post by aem56
 





think what really frightens me is how in no press nor online will anyone in America raise the issues of the disabled.. It is as if they do not exist.I take tht sielnce to mean our govts plan to let them die or make their orad harder.. I'd like to hear how some of you with knowledge actually think folks with disabilities can protect themselves..



aem,

Please see my previous posts.

I think the key is what kind of community you choose to be part of.

Current society at least in the United States is cultivating a me first attitude. We become more and more detached from others because of technology.

The popular teachings of today trumpet survival of the fittest. I see it in business. I see it in sports.

If you want a glimpse into how some will react in a SHTF scenario, go watch the parents of children at a kids sporting event.

Now take away their food.

Now give them guns.



A community has to be bound together by shared values (not how many provisions they have). The greatest value you can have is love. Your community should be honor bound by love, to help those in their community who need it, and those outside of their community asking for help.

They also gotta be willing to kick out those with a me first attitude, til they snap out of it.


The second thing that is required is faith. ( But I ain't gonna preach)

Just making cold calculations, some may reason that if you can't pull your own weight, unfortunately, you aren't going to survive. Some may reason that if they help someone weak, they put themselves and the rest of their group at risk. What will actually happen is the group will start to break down from within.


The strong gotta have faith that if they help those that need a little extra help, things will still work, in this life, or the next.



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 10:02 AM
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reply to post by aem56
 





Communities have been decimated by a purposeful effort to dismantle them by all kinds of means, tactics and efforts. But that's for another thread. Millions of people are so lost that reality for them is "me me me"



I just saw this post.

I think we see the same thing.



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by fleabit

i would last approximately 1-3 years...max, on my own with all the above, fully prepped, in a societal meltdown. you wont last as long as me


Huh.. that makes me curious how humanity ever got to this point then, as our historic ancestors lived quite happily and grew and spread.. having many less tools at their disposal.

You don't give humans enough credit for surviving. That is one they are good at.. surviving. Saying someone with supposedly every survival skill imaginable wouldn't last more than 1 to 3 years is ridiculous.


I think he means alone or in pairs.

Plus, in ancient times people were used to a certain mode of life and skills and had an expectancy of around 47 years on average.

As others have pointed out, it is the most sophisticated of societies as in the US, that will fare the worst in a cataclysmic change. First wave of deaths due to lack of water. Second due to death from starvation, exploitation, lack of sanitation, diseases like cholera and pre-existing illnesses which are no longer treatable like diabetes, asthma, and the like.

Then the zombies will come out. The half-dead, half-crazed preppers and scavangers alike who take advantage of less secured, less bloodthirsty survivors.

Even then there will be packs of wild dogs, as well as other wild animals, snakes, clouds of mosquitoes, bad food, broken limbs and other injuries and accidents. It would be very hard to make it alone for three years.
Much better odds in a settled community with the ability to safeguard their properties.

But, this is NOT everywhere. This is when the third world will be better off in some places.
The people who's lifestyles will change the least.



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by dusty1
 


could not agree more and know ost of what you say to be true from experience.WE are not a country that even knows the meaning of Agape love for their neigbors. we have been encouraged to be "consumers" rather than human beings. Know all this well.

Which is why I write about it.. Figure if folks can see the inherent humanity underlying the outer.. they may perhaps change their tunes towards other disabled. DRop the "judging a book by it's cover" That angle has been the focus of everything that I've written in 20 years. We who find ourselves in a society that doesn't value our talents have to find a way to speak out because, actually, we are those who have had plenty of spare time this last 20 years to reallydig deep and draw conslusions from this puzzle that others could benefit from..


I see activism as paying rent for breathing. what else would I be doing anyway.. waiting to die basically..

KNow the govt has this medium this spiders web down pat.. Could care less.. The core of my message is for folks to love each ther agape love not free love nickel beer..*L* If that makes me a threat.. then so be it..
Till I am gone from this planet..I will write and share what I learned when I fell out of the middle class....

IIdigenous folks have a saying "we are all one" what happens to one happens to another.. if folks had been aware of this.. we would not have been having this discussion..

DEhumanizing whole populations so a govt can then kill them while the public ignores it is genocide. the blood of millions is on the soil of this country. We will speak with peace as DR KIng said... till the day our voices are truly free.. I shall never take on the tactics of my enemies, but will pray for them. For to do otherwise is to become like them



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by auto73912621
reply to post by sirbadazz
 


Um....

I get it... you don't like that people are stupid and think they are getting prepared, even when they're not.

But as far as "not being able to live off the land" for more than a year or so even in the greatest circumstances. Two words.

Ted #ing Kaczynski

and he was a very young school teacher with no prior training and simply the desire to live on his own.



I began to doubt the whole narrative once the eff bee eye pulled out 700+ large cardboard boxes out of a cabin that was half the size of the stack of boxes.
I don't know that I would use "him" as an example of surviving in the wilds.

I think about the old Biosphere II stories. It wouldn't work except if given access to the outside world for shortfalls in food and water and oxygen supplements.

Likewise, we have few examples of roughing it without the luxury of "running to town" to supplement our way of life when "camping". Or even as the OP did, experimentally "bugging out". There is the knowledge that there is a civilization to go back to, worst come to worst. So there is a lack of real world experience of knowing that,
"this is it". This type of mental insecurity of unknowns is not within even the pervue of "homeless" people now.



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 11:47 AM
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Likewise, we have few examples of roughing it without the luxury of "running to town" to supplement our way of life when "camping". Or even as the OP did, experimentally "bugging out". There is the knowledge that there is a civilization to go back to, worst come to worst. So there is a lack of real world experience of knowing that,
"this is it". This type of mental insecurity of unknowns is not within even the pervue of "homeless" people now.


seems to me the whole thrust of this post is to discourage and demean. There are millins of homeless.
Millins of human beings from all walks of life in all kind of circumstances and all kinds of reasons for being homless.
Youcould not possibly even surmise what they know ordon't know. You just know what predjudices you have in your heart towards them.. Human beings are able quite well to put puzzles togeher despite their lack of cash.

For me the best thing we could do in this country is to remove all labels and just call people what they are human beings.. that you nor anyone else have the right to harm in thought word or deed. You never know you might run into a homeless guy like the one who was once a cELlo player.. never judge a book by it's cover because that doesn't limit the person you are labeling as much as it defines your character



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by sirbadazz
 

"if you take your silly bugout bag, and start driving the 300 miles of roads from the city to our area to make your lean-to to trap squirrels and run around with guns" etc, etc."
___________________________________________________________________*
I always wondered about people who bought a Deuce and a half, outfitted it like a survivalist, and thought that if some shtf scenario unfolded, the first thing they would do is ........'RUN' ....... somewhere, drive off into salvation wilderness city or something? First off, should collapse come, it's better to form Co-ops with your neighbors and make a plan to support, protect and secure yourselves. Not much help on the side of a mountain in the weather competing with wildlife for scarce food, not to mention some being poisonous.

Just my opinion. Where I live, were all pretty much friends, and in an emergency we would overlook our differences and survive as a community. And yea, were all pretty well armed if need be, plus we know the area like the back of our hand..... just saying..!

edit on 24-2-2013 by Plotus because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 12:00 PM
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I have all the same skills set you have and then some, sans being a patrol ranger. The difference is I am not part or half breed..... I am full blooded from ONE TRIBE. We (FULL BLOODED INDIANS) posses a different metabolism than other races also shared by island peoples of the pacific when our bodies encounter carbs it is instantly stored. Along with my bones also being .07 microns thicker... and larger brain with capacity for right lobe use and larger lung capacity....MOST ALL PEOPLE READ THIS IS AT A SEVERVE PHYSICAL DISADVANTAGE FOR BUGGING OUT! You are right on about the rual areas not being so friendly to outsiders. Things are fine now and outsiders are looked at like potential targets. Banishment did not mean death.... There have been people who have with a little training gone out beyond you 1-year mark and survived. One man on Colorado has been out for 7 years I think. The strength of the people is the community. There is a book out there the title slips my mind. I think its written by Joel Skelson. It details "where" to bug out, my county is designated in his book as a "safezone" for people in the city to bug out to. Like the beginning of the thread stated us locals will not look kindly on armed strangers in our community. Did your get your information about native foods off of Wiki????? Every tribe has staple foods high in fat and carbs, guess you never heard of pinenuts and acorns and peanuts... it could go on and on. But I can admit my knowledge only goes as far, I am only familiar with edible plants between the pacific and the Missouri. What you have said already has sealed your coffin o. Explaining away your heritage now a moot point as real Indians dont have a problem packin on pounds eating nothing but deer meat and pinenuts. Sound like you just "visit" the reservation. Hell I even bet your one of these guys who think the whole "chief" thing was an actual pre-Colombia thing.



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by aem56

Likewise, we have few examples of roughing it without the luxury of "running to town" to supplement our way of life when "camping". Or even as the OP did, experimentally "bugging out". There is the knowledge that there is a civilization to go back to, worst come to worst. So there is a lack of real world experience of knowing that,
"this is it". This type of mental insecurity of unknowns is not within even the pervue of "homeless" people now.


seems to me the whole thrust of this post is to discourage and demean. There are millins of homeless.
Millins of human beings from all walks of life in all kind of circumstances and all kinds of reasons for being homless.
Youcould not possibly even surmise what they know ordon't know. You just know what predjudices you have in your heart towards them.. Human beings are able quite well to put puzzles togeher despite their lack of cash.

For me the best thing we could do in this country is to remove all labels and just call people what they are human beings.. that you nor anyone else have the right to harm in thought word or deed. You never know you might run into a homeless guy like the one who was once a cELlo player.. never judge a book by it's cover because that doesn't limit the person you are labeling as much as it defines your character

My intent was not to demean homeless people.
Homeless people are survivors in a sense and a window to the future spoken here as having a leg-up on
knowing what it's like.

The point is that homeless people, by far, live in and amongst an ongoing devolving civilization in American cities.
Why? Because it is STILL a rope to cling to.
Homeless people do not opt to just "bug out" and live off the land, by and large.

It seems narrow-minded of you to call it labeling people. I'm sorry if I don't know any other terminology to describe the group of people who have already been affected by the coming changes.
It was a thought experiment for people to understand that even those who are homeless now, and surviving are
not a good example to look to in imagining a complete breakdown in society.
Or even the few cited in this thread who CHOSE to go off to live by themselves in the wild.
There is always the knowledge that civilization was an option.

This is about examining the times when it is NOT.
I hope this better explains my perspective.



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by HopllyteAlpha
 


Oh and i forgot... It will ALL collapse there is no stopping it... Every real Indian has been waiting for this day since 1492! "Voting" and taking political action is an anachonism in this twisted future. Us Indians know the reality of freedom and the illusion of freedom. Just because your are Indian does mean your are going to make it. In fact i am heavy hearted when I say many of my people will die because their idea of hunting and gathering involves an EAT BIG TIME card. If you are native and have a good grasp of your people survival skills it will be difficult but you will make it. If you spend your time trying to learn your native language good for you.... And if you dance and sing at pow wows that great.... But it wont keep your alive.



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 12:17 PM
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One thing after another.... If you are dealing with Indians.... There is a reason why the military still employs us still to teach their beat to TRY to be like us.



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 01:13 PM
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Originally posted by sirbadazz

Originally posted by MystikMushroom
Don't plants have carbs?

Try coming up here to Alaska. The Inuits up here eat seal, whale, caribou and salmon all winter. I'm not sure where they get their carbs from, as they can't grow anything (permafrost).

People used to (and still do) live in simply log cabins, completley off grid with little to no assistance from the outside world.

When you're living like that, your full-time, 12+ hour a day job is preparing all day, all summer for the coming winter.

You're right though about isolation. It will drive you crazy. This is why the lock people up alone that are really, really bad. We are naturally social creatures.

And I too laugh at "survivalists".


most greens dont have carbs, fruits have simple carbs. animal fat with dried meat and vitamin C are a complete food source when supplimented with seasonal foods that tribes had knowlege of, but not long term.

but dont forget, the inuit ARE A COMMUNITY. the division of labor and protocals for sharing as well as technologies for survival are ancient and ingrained.

my small point here is that if banishment from the tribe is a death sentence to a pre-western contact indian [native american], then it is also a death sentence for a fool with city skills, or even the guys on tv with survival skills. the lone indian HAD full eco-knowlege and would still die when banished. even 'ishi' lived only a few years alone and was at death when he hit white culture [read 'ishi' - the last wild native american's bio]

human need comunities to survive. rural areas will survive with their current communities. bug outs dont work.

if we need communities to survive, then survivalists should acknowlege they have a community already, their country and their countrymen. instead of bugging out to die, WORK NOW TO SAVE YOUR COUNTRY FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS. its every warrior's responsibility to take care of earth and each other for a fututre for our children. rant done. debate on peeps.



when has bug out ever meant to do it alone? as far as i was aware to bug out was to survive for a SHORT PERIOD of time while you go about doing everything you suggested. of course no one can survive ALONE, but anyone looking at bugging out has a select group of people they will bug out with (family, close friends etc) to form that community you speak of once they have survived the initial devastation.

i've never heard of anyone expecting to bug out alone and survive, if so they are just stupid and watch to much tv. any REAL survivalist already knows you need a tight group of people to survive no matter how "BADAZZ" you are....

your points are all valid but to me the whole fundamental thought behind bugging out was to survive the initial SHTF scenario with long term plan to create the community you speak of to survive.



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 01:55 PM
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reply to post by sirbadazz
 


Must be nice to afford staying at Holiday Inn Express.

For those that could only afford to stay at Motel 6 and learn some of the basics,... you know it wont matter in the end. You will be surprised what you can learn when you have to. Not all successful survivors will have to be a cross between Rambo and Grizzly Adams.

I am ready, and I know I will make it.



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 02:41 PM
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Originally posted by jimmiec
It would be far better for your community to assess each drifter and decide if they can contribute to your community and stay or simply nudge them off of your property. Your community is doomed if they all believe what you are saying.


This is already happening here in the second Great Depression as waves of hobos sweep the West Coast, the Gulf Coast and the Northeastern Rust Belt, looking for squats, food and community. The commonality is that these people have already "bugged out", but as stated endlessly you won't last long alone. Punk rockers who dumpster dive understand that they rely on the system as much as the people that filled the dumpster do.

In the towns where the hobos pass through and congregate, the locals must keep in touch with their circles to prevent problems from spilling over into their community. This task falls to elders, soup kitchens and law enforcement. Some find work through these contacts, especially in rural areas where laborers are always needed. Other internal refugees settle down, form communities in emptied cities and launch their own education, arts, manufacturing initiatives. This is the "bugging in" which is needed, because "bugging out" has already begun for many people out of necessity.
edit on 24-2-2013 by Autograf because: It's a Gulf Coast, not a Southern Seaboard...



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 04:34 PM
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The OP is totally a fail. Where I'm originally from you can forage for carbs almost with no end. As for getting out of a city to where you can go where the food is at, having done a 112 mile "hike" with 85 lbs. of gear with minimal food and water in four days. Easily.

Oh, and not being able to have protein from YOUR non renewable deer, elk, etc. .... I have identified a HUGE source of protein that is very renewable. Yes, it's controversial, but I know I will do it if I can't find domestic and would animals and that's people. As long as it's not someone in my pack, sorry you are just another resource to me. Be it your ammo, supplies or the meat on your bones.



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by gymbeau2000
As long as it's not someone in my pack, sorry you are just another resource to me. Be it your ammo, supplies or the meat on your bones.



Don't forget that you are also a resource to others as well. Wandering around in the country side is one of the dumbest things any bug out person can do. The locals will be waiting.
edit on 24-2-2013 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by sirbadazz
 


I agree with you. I am not a survivalist but I am aware that most peeps would die. I live in remote community and people that talk about survival never seem to talk about community. If something went wrong we would work together. There is enough here to sustain and strangers coming in would not be welcome.



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 04:53 PM
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reply to post by gymbeau2000
 


I think you would die. You have strength in a community you do not have strength alone. We humans are not solitary creatures we use each other for a range of skills.





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