DHS Raids Gun Collector- Confiscates Nearly 1500 guns- No Charges Filed

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by Darkphoenix77
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Ah, thanks for the info, was unaware a warrant was issued. Well I guess we will just have to wait and see. Still lame that if they end up not prosecuting that he will not end up getting the collection back.

We should still follow the story and see where it goes. This administration has made it clear they are declaring war on gun owners.

We are in full agreement here, the Info War has been on for quite some time.

@ blamethegrays You sir, bring up alot of very good points, I would think had he broken any laws they would have arrested him. Still fuzzy on that, if they did not have enough cause to arrest after years of surveilance then how can they legally seize and confiscate his entire collection?

NEVER keep large numbers of ANYTHING in your home.

Congress re-wrote the Federal Asset Seizure laws giving authority to seize your assets and they made the paperwork nearly impossible to file to get them back,

Federal Agencies seize your crap then hock it to get funds for their Ops. Or they use it overseas for nefarious reasons.

If you DO have large numbers of firearms....fix a couple. Make a few modifications to a few of them so that if anyone EVER tried firing them....they go KABOOM. That way if anyone steals them/Feds seize them....


They'll get a big surprise and you'll get some laughs. It's not nice to steal someone's property.

It used to be illegal for Government to steal citizens property......not anymore.:[

hey, that black ops budget won't fill itself up

reply to post by Pervius


GREAT point pervius.
Second line notes that NM is conveniently close to the border...

F&F2: Holder's Revenge coming soon to ATS!

Do you have any proof of your claims about the legality of this?

New Mexico does not regulate or specifically restrict the possession of firearms. Owners are not required to register or license firearms with the state. Gun collectors are protected under the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986. The law states that a firearms dealer is defined as a person who is selling guns for profit or livelihood. Unlicensed individuals are allowed to sell firearms from their private collection without performing a background check on the buyer. So, how can he be under surveillance for years and yet, no crimes have been linked to any of his guns and no charges have been filed against this man?

Because from the quoted material, it sounds like he broke the law. You saying he didn't, doesn't make it so.

He is being investigated for:

gun smuggling, tax evasion, violating importation laws.

I'm sorry, but even if what you say is true, it doesn't protect him for doing those things. They had a search warrant too!

Police officers obtain search warrants by convincing a judge or magistrate that they have "probable cause" to believe that criminal activity is occurring at the place to be searched or that evidence of a crime may be found there. Usually, the police provide the judge or magistrate with information in the form of written statements under oath, called "affidavits," which report either their own observations, or those of private citizens or police undercover informants. If the magistrate believes that the affidavit establishes probable cause to conduct a search, he or she will issue a warrant.

So they were after his guns due to criminal activity associated with those guns....why then was he not charged? I'm not seeing "probable cause" here....

Also who was the Judge? That would be an interesting question to answer...

Take some boxes of your ammo and pull the bullets. Place double or triple charges of powder in them and put the bullets back in.


Govt/ or anyone who steals it.....boy will they get a shocker.

Take some firearms and drill into the barrel on the side so the sidewall is very thin. Fill it in with JB Weld and spraypaint it. Anybody who tries firing that's going to get a BIG surprise.

You have to prep your stuff so that if someone takes it...Govt/ or anyone else....make sure they get one heck of a surprise if they ever try using what they stole from you.

Does a FOIA request release the names of the criminals who carried this out?

Say nothing. 200+ yard shot and justice is done...for the first one. Repeat as necessary.

SAY NOTHING....Just DO.

Originally posted by Ghost375
Do you have any proof of your claims about the legality of this?

New Mexico does not regulate or specifically restrict the possession of firearms. Owners are not required to register or license firearms with the state. Gun collectors are protected under the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986. The law states that a firearms dealer is defined as a person who is selling guns for profit or livelihood. Unlicensed individuals are allowed to sell firearms from their private collection without performing a background check on the buyer. So, how can he be under surveillance for years and yet, no crimes have been linked to any of his guns and no charges have been filed against this man?

Because from the quoted material, it sounds like he broke the law. You saying he didn't, doesn't make it so.

He is being investigated for:

gun smuggling, tax evasion, violating importation laws.

I'm sorry, but even if what you say is true, it doesn't protect him for doing those things. They had a search warrant too!

That information was posted within the article itself........



What doesn't sit right is if they had been watching him for years, why hasn't he been arrested if there was any wrong doing???
No charges have been pressed against him yet and according to Robert Adams website, this started on Jan. 22......
So I would think that if all these allegations were true, he'd be in jail by now.
Just saying.........

Laws, Laws, and more Laws.
Whether it be potatoes or firearms, if he bought them, they weren't stolen, and weren't purposefully being sold to known criminals it should be his business only what he has and what he does with them.
If he was committing a criminal act then the BATF should have served an arrest warrant and he should be in jail or at least on bond. I see he is still out and free to act. The friggin feds were just looking for a reason for someone not to possess so many arms in my opinion.
Obvious he wasn't much of a threat in their eyes or it would have turned into another Ruby Ridge fiasco, and arrest would have been via rifle shot.

I hope the guy got a receipt for every one of those guns! It wouldn't surprise me to learn some of the guy's collection will be added to the collection of at least one of the cops. Depending on what gets scooped up during a police raid, some items have a way of disappearing somewhere along the route between the place that was raided, and the police station.

reply to post by bjax9er
As long as your not a known collector.... they will probably sweep the property with metal detectors and ground penetrating radar.....
Otherwise, you might just have to bury them on another parcel of land somewhere. I don't know but it seems like if they want them, they will find a way to get them.

reply to post by snarky412


Its time to roll out the BIG GUNS... TERROR LAWS override NORMAL LAWS... How long before people have enough and the armed standoffs (that so many crave) become common-place...? I'd say 6 to 18 months... BAD LUCK, ALL ROUND....

reply to post by blamethegreys

I have to agree, if you honestly think they only raid people when they have sufficient evidence of wrong-doing, you're an idiot.

The government (EPA) raided Energy Labs in my home town a few years ago. And after they "lost" the couple of million dollars of equipment they stole, they dropped the investigation about a year ago. Interestingly enough, about the only thing I could find was a FOIA request to the DOJ that was closed.

FOIA

Records regarding a Department of Justice, Criminal Division/EPA investigation of Energy Laboratories, Inc.

Determined that the Criminal Division, DOJ, and EPA were the most appropriate entities for handling, and referred requester to those entities

This is how you catch a DHS person. First, get a DHS magnet, which will be a gun. Then put the gun in a man-sized steel cage, with a trail of donuts leading up to the trap. Set these traps around a neighborhood where there may be citizens of minority religions, citizens that still have the capability to vote that owe no debt, houses that homeschool, and free wifi cafes. While in a cafe, mention on a conspiracy website that you heard from a friend that he saw something that looked like a gun in your trap area, if you want to catch one of these agents in about 30 minutes or less.

Seriously I can't type up the word "uzi" while surfing the web from a free wifi cafe without a police officer coming in about 15 minutes after the buzzword. Once I had 4 of them come in to see what all the internet activity about "cesium" was about, 20 minutes later. The NSA/DHS surveillance complex has a lot of eyes looking for suspicious things. They are faster than the pizza delivery guys, and for nothing! Lots of time to suspect-make, too many resources, I think.

These agents are starving for guns. It's their new special prize, more than gold. They must get a big Christmas bonus for the most guns confiscated at the end of the year or something.

reply to post by Sandalphon

This is how you catch a DHS person. First, get a DHS magnet, which will be a gun. Then put the gun in a man-sized steel cage, with a trail of donuts leading up to the trap. Set these traps around a neighborhood where there may be citizens of minority religions, citizens that still have the capability to vote that owe no debt, houses that homeschool, and free wifi cafes. While in a cafe, mention on a conspiracy website that you heard from a friend that he saw something that looked like a gun in your trap area, if you want to catch one of these agents in about 30 minutes or less.

HA.........you made me think about this story:


Six Inch Tall Toy Mortar Sparks Armed Police Raid in the UK

A man posted a picture of an action figure who looks a little like him as his Facebook profile picture. In the background was a six inch tall toy mortar that goes with the action figure. Someone reported the photo and this sparked an all out police raid on the home by an armed response team.

Originally posted by Lil Drummerboy
maybe he was selling to mexico
just cause he has no violations or record could mean he just hadnt been caught yet

Maybe the feds just do not want any competition in selling firearms to certain Mexicans. Maybe it is possible that he was upsetting the imbalance in Mexico that was created by Obama and Holder.

this is nothing new even for prominent gun dealer..the feds enjoy stealing peoples gun collections, houses,gold coins, and anything of real value whenever given the opportunity, because in truth they are thieves and predators ran by a corrupt greedy syndicate

where i am from these thing happen quite frequent, but the only sure way to combat it is to never allow them the ability to gain access, and to vault where they cannot follow

reply to post by Sandalphon

sounds like fun, if everyone 24hrs a day tripped their triggers, they soon would be broke and out of a job

I don't know if this person was up to anything truly evil, all I have to go by is a government press release and off the cuff remarks to reporters which means what the press is reporting may or may not be accurate.

What I do know is that based on the information -

1. It looks like a very weak search warrant was generated with very little evidence.
2. It looks like someone in the government has been looking for an excuse to go after this person for a very long time.

They went in and seized his guns and records in the hope they can find something to prosecute him for given they've failed to come up with an indictable offense.

As a collector, he's in danger of going to prison now quite possibly without ever intending to break the law.

The BATFe will be going through those guns to see if they can get any of them to misfire, chainfire, etc and counting all the parts to see if any of them violate the foreign / domestic / military / civilian parts / features limits.

They'll go through all his NFA guns and cross check them against the BATFE's admittedly screwed up NFA registryy where a government worker can make a clerical error that sends you to prison for the rest of your life.

Not to mention going through his records to see if they pin any possible violation on him for sales, transport or purchase of the guns in his collection. (He better hope no one ever sold him a stolen gun).

Really, even without all the facts this looks like a good old fashioned Federal bend over / witch hunt. If the day comes they manage to get rid of all the guns / gun owners the anti gun crowd will find out how the Feds really work when the agenda changes to carbon tax or some other policy and the tactics stay the same.

Tyranny only works if they make the occasional example out of someone, after all.