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DHS Raids Gun Collector- Confiscates Nearly 1500 guns- No Charges Filed

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posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 07:17 PM
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Originally posted by _BoneZ_

Originally posted by snarky412
I left out the word 'properly' marked......so would that still refer to the S.N.?

Your news story says "no markings", so that could also include other information as well. Most firearms have manufacturer info printed on them such as name of manufacturer, model number, serial number, etc.

Remove all of that information and you have an almost completely untraceable firearm. The only people I know that would deliberately want an untraceable firearm are criminals who would commit gun crimes. That's what the other part of your story was talking about how unmarked firearms would be more valuable. An untraceable firearm is very valuable to criminals.


I see already that people are solely making DHS to be the bad-guy in this particular instance. However, if the "suspect" was selling unmarked and untraceable weapons, then DHS was in the right on this one.


edit on 22-2-2013 by _BoneZ_ because: spelllinngggg



That's the problem....most of what we are being told is by the DHS....and yet they are saying the investigation is still pending.
They take the guns but press no charges against the man.
Seems like it should be the other way around.
Build your case first with evidence and then, seize the weapons and arrest him for any wrong doing.
Just my opinion of course.......




posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by snarky412
This is per BobAdam's website:



Notice!

On January 22, 2013, my home and my business was raided and ransacked by 'our' Federal Government.
All firearms were seized, including customer consignments, shipments in transit in or out, antiques, airguns, and nonguns.
Invoices, Computers and other records were seized.
The house was trashed.
Documents were scattered and shuffled.
No charges were filed, and I expect to be operating on a reduced scale soon.


www.adamsguns.com...
edit on 22-2-2013 by snarky412 because: (no reason given)



K, be honest. How many people were afraid to click the link to his site?

Second line.



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by _BoneZ_
 


Look at his website . . . he deals in collectables. There is no cherry-picking . . . he is a well-known collector in the Southwest. I live in the Southwest. Most of his "stock" wouldn't have serial numbers in the first place. Also, the only "markings" that are illegal to remove and resale is the serial number . . . not mfg or model.

You are assuming that DHS is talking about post-68 arms when referencing arms not being "marked" properly. I'm going by what is being reported and what I know this gentleman to deal in. No cherry picking on my part.

EDIT - Before 68 serial numbers weren't required by law . . . Those wouldn't be considered "antique", but would still not have a serial number.
edit on 2/22/13 by solomons path because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by Apollumi

Originally posted by snarky412
This is per BobAdam's website:



Notice!

On January 22, 2013, my home and my business was raided and ransacked by 'our' Federal Government.
All firearms were seized, including customer consignments, shipments in transit in or out, antiques, airguns, and nonguns.
Invoices, Computers and other records were seized.
The house was trashed.
Documents were scattered and shuffled.
No charges were filed, and I expect to be operating on a reduced scale soon.


www.adamsguns.com...
edit on 22-2-2013 by snarky412 because: (no reason given)



K, be honest. How many people were afraid to click the link to his site?

Second line.


I figured I'd be the guinea pig....
So far, no black suv's or helicopters......


What bothers me is how they are making him sound like he is some kind of militia with that many guns, but in reality he's just a gun dealer/collector.
And if he really did any thing wrong, why isn't he in jail?
They are going to ruin him and then say we have nothing against him blah, blah, blah.........but by then, he'll be broke, lost every thing and his reputation will be tainted.

Sorry, I'm guilty of not trusting the excuse given by our government....they have been known to ruin many lives in the past without a second thought.



edit on 22-2-2013 by snarky412 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 07:37 PM
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reply to post by snarky412
 


And that is how you know they have nothing. He would have been arrested or in jail, if they found one post-68 arm with the SN scratched off or defaced in someway. Also, the fact that this was a DHS raid and not BATFE, tells me that no "firearms" laws were broken.

Whether they ever charge this collector with anything or not . . . he will not get his inventory or investments back.



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 08:04 PM
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From the article.




However, a bigger concern is that no markings on the guns and missing documents mean the guns are not traceable by law enforcement.


Maybe Eric Holder should of taken a page out of this guys book and maybe he wouldn't of got caught with his pants down while he was attempting to rape the second amendment and the American public.




“Its very scary in the fact that the school is so close by makes it seem even more dangerous.”


Really? Why's that? I bet this guy is scared to go out after dark and look people directly in the eyes too.




The search warrant also said Adams was investigated in Canada for keeping about 80 illegal guns in a storage unit. U.S. agents worked with Canadian police on that case.


Yet they turned up nothing as evidenced by the fact no charges have been filed. Fine job indeed! Idiots.




Adams has not been charged with any crimes although Homeland Security said the investigation is not over yet.


Homeland Security? Not the ATF eh? Well, in that case, bring in the drones!

Sieg Heil!



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by _BoneZ_

Originally posted by snarky412
I meant to ask the gun people here, what do they mean by the guns aren't 'marked'?
Just curious......

Most guns have serial numbers on them so that they can be traced. "Unmarked" would mean that the serial number is non-existent, i.e. removed. Therefore, making the gun untraceable..

Removing a serial number from a firearm is illegal in many places. As is possession and sale of a firearm that had the serial number removed, if I'm not mistaken.






Many old firearms never had serial numbers i have two old rifles made before 1930 that have none.
these are the type of firearms many collectors have and damaging them by stamping a number on them would devalue them badly.
edit on 22-2-2013 by ANNED because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 09:04 PM
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time to bury your "defense" weapons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
edit on 22-2-2013 by bjax9er because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 12:27 AM
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hmmm this story pus the one I saw on the web worries me here is the gist ... The Disarming of Our Vets! Veterans Receive Letters from Dept. of Vet. Affairs Prohibiting Possession of Firearms or Ammunition
MinuteMenNews.com...

Ive never heard of the site before maybe one of you has Im left going
atm
edit on 23-2-2013 by LordArrgh because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-2-2013 by LordArrgh because: fixing site link



posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 12:35 AM
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Originally posted by LordArrgh
hmmm this story pus the one I saw on the web worries me here is the gist ... The Disarming of Our Vets! Veterans Receive Letters from Dept. of Vet. Affairs Prohibiting Possession of Firearms or Ammunition
MinuteMenNews.com...

Ive never heard of the site before maybe one of you has Im left going


Yeah, it's spooky what's going on.

If you haven't already, check out this thread Disarming American Vets



posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 01:24 AM
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This same exact thing happened years ago to a local business man I am acquainted with. The ATF confiscated everything he had, muskets, flintlocks, antiques all of it, including swords and sabres...His money ran out before there's did, and NO he was never really charged, and NO, he never got his property back. It may be hard to believe, but he and his story are well known in this area of SoCal



posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 03:37 AM
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Welcome to Amerika, where now it is all about guilty until proven innocent or you run out of money and live on a streetcorner in a cardboard box. They obviously have nothing on him or he'd be in jail before they even raided his home and business. Also, maybe I am mistaken but I thought that even feds needed a warrant, this does not appear to be a case of him selling to terrorists or else his new residence would be Guantonimo Bay, so what gives? Just proves that what you think you own, you no longer really own because if they want it they will just come and take it.



posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 04:44 AM
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Originally posted by _BoneZ_

Originally posted by snarky412
I meant to ask the gun people here, what do they mean by the guns aren't 'marked'?
Just curious......

Most guns have serial numbers on them so that they can be traced. "Unmarked" would mean that the serial number is non-existent, i.e. removed. Therefore, making the gun untraceable..

Removing a serial number from a firearm is illegal in many places. As is possession and sale of a firearm that had the serial number removed, if I'm not mistaken.






Also a person must have a FFL in order to sell fire arms across state lines. Since this case comes from the feds, federal laws were broken.



posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 04:49 AM
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Here is a media report on the same incident.

Feds seized nearly 1,500 guns in raid

Some things to note -


Four search warrants filed Thursday show the HSI investigators seized nearly 900 firearms from Adams' home. There were 548 handguns and 317 rifles listed in the warrant return inventory.

A search warrant requires probable cause.


Adams has not been charged with any crimes although Homeland Security said the investigation is not over yet.

Still ongoing..


Federal investigators confirm that. However, they're also investigating him for possible gun smuggling, tax evasion and violating importation laws.




The search warrant also said Adams was investigated in Canada for keeping about 80 illegal guns in a storage unit. U.S. agents worked with Canadian police on that case.



There might be more going on that we dont know.



posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 04:53 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


Ah, thanks for the info, was unaware a warrant was issued. Well I guess we will just have to wait and see. Still lame that if they end up not prosecuting that he will not end up getting the collection back.

edit: I should have read the OP closer, it even says a warrant was issued. My bad, and next time I will have to pay closer attention.

edit on 23-2-2013 by Darkphoenix77 because: edit



posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 04:57 AM
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From outward appearances the collector just an average businessman who's into trading and selling guns for himself and others.

Remember these DHS folks are second and thirds stringers, not the top of the class and certainly not the creme of the crop. They are nothing to fear.



posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 04:58 AM
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Originally posted by Darkphoenix77
reply to post by Xcathdra
 


Ah, thanks for the info, was unaware a warrant was issued. Well I guess we will just have to wait and see. Still lame that if they end up not prosecuting that he will not end up getting the collection back.


We should still follow the story and see where it goes. This administration has made it clear they are declaring war on gun owners.



posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 06:24 AM
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So this individual did not do anything wrong and DHS just came in and took his guns for no reason or that is what some are trying to say.

Well from the OP link there is this...


The search warrant also said Adams was investigated in Canada for keeping about 80 illegal guns in a storage unit. U.S. agents worked with Canadian police on that case.


Now what I find funny is the fact that this man has seemingly broken federal laws and the fact that he was storing guns or being investigated for storing guns in Canada may have been the beginning of his downfall, or he may have decided to overlook this...


Any holder of a valid Possession and Acquisition Licence (PAL) may import a restricted or non-restricted firearm, depending on the limitations of their PAL. However, the US control the export of most firearms (antiques and muzzle-loaders are not controlled for export) and the US must issue an export licence to the American exporter. Prior to issuing this licence the US government requires that the Canadian importer present a document from Canada allowing this proposed transaction. To satisfy that US requirement Canadian residents may apply for an International Import Certificate (IIC).


www.canadaguns.ca...

So now you see if this man had guns being stored in Canada and did not have the correct license to export those weapons to Canada then yes he broke a federal law which will give the DHS the right to obtain a warrant and confiscate his weapons.

The DHS just doesn't come to your house to take your weapons for no reason and they never will.

Now here is something that will get you in trouble for sure...


Court documents reveal federal agents were watching Adams for years and that some documentation was missing “to determine to whom Adams [was] selling or exporting his firearms.”


If he cannot document to who or where he sends guns then he has broken the law, but some people may not like it but it is the law.

I am not saying he is guilty of anything as I don't have all the facts but going by what I have read he may have some explaining to do.

Lastly the state of New Mexico may have different laws concerning guns in there state, as soon as you leave or sell weapons to outside of that state it becomes a federal gov't issue and they will uphold the law.

And I thought I would add a link to the ATF importation and verification requirements for you... something every gun collector or dealer have to abide by in the US.

www.atf.gov...
edit on 23-2-2013 by tsurfer2000h because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 07:10 AM
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reply to post by solomons path
 


another thing to consider is if any of the "unmarked" guns where made by this individual personally... in which case there is not any requirement for markings of any kind including a [serial #]'s are only required for firearms manufactured for sale and transfer...



posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 10:57 AM
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I appreciate all the skeptics, trying to figure out how he may have broken the law, making the raid legit. I don't know if you've noticed, but there's been a real smear campaign against "conspiracy theorists' like us since we dared to question the SH narrative. So I for one think we need to be sure we critically analyze our views before jumping to our usual positions.

BUT

That being said, on this one I have to disagree. I read the news article and saw lots of nonspecific, anonymous allegations being tossed around and yet he wasn't arrested or even taken into custody. I also went to his website. It has been updated since the confiscation;

Adams is still selling firearms.

Can things be any more clear? He was raided because someone didn't like what he was doing. Someone might have not liked that he was running this business from his house. He may well have been on a watchlist because someone was just itching to catch him do something wrong. Which is illegal, really.

IF there was one single gun with illegal marking alterations, they would have arrested.
IF there was one single weapon that he was not legally allowed to possess, they would have arrested.
IF the Canadian allegations had proven true, they would have arrested.
IF he in any way did not have the legal documents required to run this business, they would have arrested.
IF federal agents were watching Adams for years and it culminated in this raid, they would have arrested.
IF there were "court documents" pertaining to missing sales records (customer identities are not a requirement in the US, unless I grossly misunderstand the law), then wouldn't it be the IRS raiding?
IF they had any grounds for this raid, they would have suspended or revoked Adam's FFL license (or whatever he needs to have to continue selling online, which he is doing.)

The simple fact that he is free to continue doing exactly what he was doing completely destroys the idea that this raid was legit. If I had to put money on it, I'd say it was a gun grab by government agents based on someone's personal feelings about the man's occupation and business location.




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