Never rely on America to be there for us. If they ever are, well and good. But never plan around them to coming to our aid. Following them into their wars is supposed to be some kind of insurance policy.

I put my faith in the British Commonwealth backing us before I ever put my faith in the USA.

[edit on 5-11-2004 by cargo]

In future is see all the major populated countrys to have bigger footsteps on global politics, currently Indonesia has 240 million population Australia 20 million so draw from that, if Indonesia outrun Australia in population and has a lot to growth so if it has any reason to get hostile with Australia i dont see it having problems to try do so, but have to keep in mind currently Australia is one of the best buddies of US, so dont see such possibility unless US bankrupt due high debts and run to anarchy.

Islamic nations havent been able to fight wars for long time expect Iraq - Iran and that was observer by US and USSR. Some fear Islam but i dont see em having big position on globe if we talk about full scale war all cards are against em.

Australia should plan for her own future as a strong , self-sufficient nation.Do not get hobbled by American protection.You never know when friends will desert you in times of need.I love Australia, her land and air is simply great, and the wilderness is magnificient.SAF sends troops to train in Queensland every year and we have benefited greatly.If Indonesia were to make a move towards Australia, I would think Singapore might have a few things to say about that.Don't forget, Habibie once called us a little red dot.I would like to show him its more like the red dot of a laser pointed between his eyes.

The weak underdeveloped Indonesia of today is nothing to fear. JI terror[ism] another issue. What will be worrying is an Indonesia of the future, an Indonesia with a competent government (economically), and a democratic Indonesia whose constituency genuinely dislike Australia.

Originally posted by cargo
Never rely on America to be there for us.

We don't. It would come in handy, and its a fairly safe assumption that the Poms/Yanks/Kiwis would be straight in should there be any conflict. Also as mentioned Singapore and maybe even India would jump in if Indonesia launched an offensive against Aus.

Either way, a ground invasion of the Australian mainland is a logistical nightmare, any invasion force pretty much has to bring everything they need with them. Also last I heard pretty much every Army unit is trained in surviving in the bush largely unsupported. Also trained in sabotage and guerrilla warfare. On top of this the RAN and RAAF would be picking off traffic going back and forth from Indonesia.

The plan is never to meet any invasion force head on in a direct battle, its picking and pecking. Wearing them down, we have a big advantage in the huge amount of area we have to play in.

Mind you we don't have a hell of a lot in the way of counterstrike options. Maybe a handful of bombing raids, and/or SAS missions. But on our own we probably don't have the ability to remove whoever is in charge of it in Indonesia, which is a worry.

Not too many deserts in Indonesia. They're probably pretty good in jungle terrain but that runs out pretty fast in the top end. Open country/desert warfare and jungle warfare are Australian specialities. In the last century the army had almost thirty years of unceasing jungle warfare practice. WW2, Malaya, Indonesia, VN.

The Vietnamese won their war in the jungle but when they invaded Cambodia in '79 they chose a blitzkreig and it was successful only to a point. The pushed the KR back into the jungle but couldn't get rid of them. To prove their error they then defeated the Chinese in the jungle when they crossed the northern border in retaliation for the invasion of their client. Lesson: always stick to your speciality.

Logisitics from Australia to ETimor were difficult enough for us, how much harder for the Indos coming the other way?

Indonesia coming down to take my land from me huh! I don,t think so in the short term. But lets consider it. I,ve done military service,engineers.So has my oldest boy & i,ve got another two. We like to shoot. We live out west. Some of the cow cockys out here are hard men. Know the country well. Plenty of places to hide. Plenty of food & water if you know where. A good aussie shooter who is Fighting for his country would be a formidable weapon. Just ask our Olympians. Hand our weapons back cause johnny says so, don,t be silly. If they are coming here to take my country, me, my boys & my mates got something to say about that. Come on down, love to see you through a scope some time.

Originally posted by Wombathole
Indonesia coming down to take my land from me huh! I don,t think so in the short term. But lets consider it. I,ve done military service,engineers.So has my oldest boy & i,ve got another two. We like to shoot. We live out west. Some of the cow cockys out here are hard men. Know the country well. Plenty of places to hide. Plenty of food & water if you know where. A good aussie shooter who is Fighting for his country would be a formidable weapon. Just ask our Olympians. Hand our weapons back cause johnny says so, don,t be silly. If they are coming here to take my country, me, my boys & my mates got something to say about that. Come on down, love to see you through a scope some time.

That would mainly mean guerilla warfare and possible lead enemy moral in bad shape causing em to lose even more, still Australia is so big country to defend by its population, its easy to say as we got 5 million population country and still using land mines on russian border line cause reserve doesnt have manpower to all the places, and in AUS its bigger area for each troop. I dont doubt your boys & mates wouldnt be help for country, still i think Indonesia wouldnt fight way we seen US fighting to try avoid civilian casualties, by so minimizing any guerilla resistance effectively. If you look African or South America civil disorders and wars those are very brutal they hunt unborn babies and mothers to make sure that their heir wont come to revenge.
US army still have good discipline compared many others its just always top case when they do something bringing it more heavily on bad light, still much more brutal methods are used on many wars by other countries.

I have no doubt that at this point in time Australia would crush Indonesia. But look into the future. Can you see the same thing happening?

Look at Australia's current military situation, i've heard that most Australian tanks are much too heavy for most Australian bridges, the stat I heard was 90%.

Should Australia be taking precautionary measures?

Adopt Swiss-like neutrality. Unally ourselves from the US. Dispense with regional sheriff mentality. End of 'problem'. Certainly the end of any terrorist threat. Hell, give the Indonesians the north-west half of Australia, there's bugger all there. We were fully prepared to give it to the Japanese in WWII. If they do want to occupy anywhere of significance, they're in for a hell of a time - it probably wouldn't be worth the cost.

Not popular views. But there shouldn't be cause for concern if we play our cards right, diplomatically.

Wars are because governments want more resources. (IRAQ was a good example of this for OIL). What does Australia have that indonesia would want? Possibly more space to hold all their people, however, Australia at the moment is a very dry country (in drought conditions). Most of it is desert with only the coastal areas any good.

Even if they did attack us (with their nice new migs), they would need a way to get a lot of people over here by boat (they do a good job of that at the moment with their boat people). Australia has a couple of subs that can deter any real naval crossing.

I guess anything is possible, it could happen. I dont think that indonesia is the only country though that would have its eyes on australia. Any over crowded country will always be wanting to expand its borders. I saw we negotiate and give then tassie and the greenies!

Give them the North West???

What start with the Argyle Diamond mines, the Pearling fleet at Broome, then give them Hammersly Iron...

Couldn't we save some money and give them Victoria instead...



[edit on 20-11-2004 by Flange Gasket]

There is only one scenario I can forsee in the near future where Indonesia would be a threat to Australia.

If the US was somehow out of the picture and the Indons banded to gether with Malaysia, Singapore and maybe a Muslim Thailand, then they would have the force projection capability to take us on on our own soil. Until we lose our big brother and there is a major geopolitical rearrangement in SE Asia I don't think we have much to worry about.

NSA

There will never be a muslim Thailand, the Thai people are passionate about their Bhuddism, from their royalty downwards. The Thai's hate the muslims.

As for Singapore it's a military dictatorship run by an regime more British in outlook than Australia.

The possibility of the alliance of Indo and Malaysia however is very real, but Mahateer in Malaysia is as mad as a cut snake and I doubt that the Indonesians would want to have too much to do with him (no one else does).

Originally posted by cargoI put my faith in the British Commonwealth backing us before I ever put my faith in the USA.

You bet we would back you up. We love you guys...

[edit on 23-11-2004 by Cjwinnit]