2Pac Died For Us; Spirit of a True American Hero

Originally posted by tetra50

Originally posted by Leuan

Originally posted by tetra50

Originally posted by Leuan

Originally posted by DOLCOTT
OK sure, a thug is a thug no matter how much gangsta cash he had. He was inspiration to who? What a load of BS

"Cuz they win when your soul dies" Pac

starred you for that, and you showed exactly where you are, and may we all get there someday.....

Is this a joke? I'm nowhere. I'm out of the matrix but it tries to pull me back in at every chance. I don't always express my thoughts completely on here, so I hope we're not misunderstanding eachother.
That tupac quote gets right to the center of the matter. Our souls are in perpetual warfare, religious or not.
Take care tetra

You take care, too. Your response says it all. I do not express my thoughts here either. Yes I hope we are not misunderstanding each other , either, but I sense your fear of being aligned in any way with me, no problem. Yes, our souls are in perpetual warfare, it is what he wanted us to know and acknowledge. And I thank the OP for that, for this was his intent, to get to the center of the matter. He spoke of chips and intent, and race and other matters, and he wanted, I think, us to see how if you were to recognize this it would destroy you....

No need to distance yourself here.....no one agrees nor sees.....and it is exactly as it was meant to be, straight from a rapper


And God will forgive what happened in no....

.... in no time, in due time.

I think Pac was evolving as we all do internally to one extent or another, and any bit of consensus we can build in regards to the opposition of the monopolization of control by the few we currently have is always welcome.However, placing him into hero status is a bit of a stretch. It's unfortunate he was an individual caught up in a very poor and uncontrollable situation, but the fact is, he made his own choices and followed his own road. Nobody forced the company he kept on him once he attained the wealth he had. That was his decision and his decision alone. Being shot up in a vehicle with Suge Knight is a very telling fact of the company he kept that cannot be denied, no matter how anybody attempts to rationalize it. Knight is the very antithesis of a respectable human being that nobody who models them self as a role model should be associated with.As far as the slavery/racial debate. It gets old after a while, and one of the biggest fallacies is this idea of universal white privilege. As if just because someone is Caucasian they're immune to prejudices or servitude. One has to look no further than western European Caucasians enslaving eastern European Caucasians to see that people in general have no problem placing humans of the same race into a lifetime a servitude. If you don't understand the point I'm making then every other point I can try to make will be lost and there is no possibility of a reasonable conversation to be had. This is a class war, not a racial one. Never has been based off of race, and never will be.

I thought 2Pac was just a thug who lived the gangsta lifestyle and was killed because of it.....Who knew?

Michael Jackson I suppose was just teaching kids Biology in his free time?

He was a scumbag, plain and simple and he died because of it, which was no loss, the problem is he promoted and encouraged a way of life that caused the deaths of thousands if not tens of thousands of impressionable young people who tried to emulate it.

He was no hero.

No matter what oppinion you have about 2Pac, he was a genius. Some of his lyrics are still current today.
I know this isnt a music forum and this is a bit off topic but...read and listen :

Keep Ya Head Up

I give a holler to my sisters on welfare Tupac cares, and don't nobody else care
And uhh, I know they like to beat ya down a lot When you come around the block brothas clown a lot
But please don't cry, dry your eyes, never let up Forgive but don't forget, girl keep your head up
And when he tells you you ain't nuttin don't believe him And if he can't learn to love you you should leave him Cause sista you don't need him And I ain't tryin to gas ya up, I just call em how I see em
You know it makes me unhappy When brothas make babies, and leave a young mother to be a pappy
And since we all came from a woman Got our name from a woman and our game from a woman
I wonder why we take from our women Why we rape our women, do we hate our women?
I think it's time to kill for our women Time to heal our women, be real to our women
And if we don't we'll have a race of babies That will hate the ladies, that make the babies
And since a man can't make one He has no right to tell a woman when and where to create one
So will the real men get up I know you're fed up ladies, but keep your head up

Genius at work. RIP

Originally posted by ArtooDetoo
No matter what oppinion you have about 2Pac, he was a genius. Some of his lyrics are still current today.
I know this isnt a music forum and this is a bit off topic but...read and listen :

Keep Ya Head Up

I give a holler to my sisters on welfare Tupac cares, and don't nobody else care
And uhh, I know they like to beat ya down a lot When you come around the block brothas clown a lot
But please don't cry, dry your eyes, never let up Forgive but don't forget, girl keep your head up
And when he tells you you ain't nuttin don't believe him And if he can't learn to love you you should leave him Cause sista you don't need him And I ain't tryin to gas ya up, I just call em how I see em
You know it makes me unhappy When brothas make babies, and leave a young mother to be a pappy
And since we all came from a woman Got our name from a woman and our game from a woman
I wonder why we take from our women Why we rape our women, do we hate our women?
I think it's time to kill for our women Time to heal our women, be real to our women
And if we don't we'll have a race of babies That will hate the ladies, that make the babies
And since a man can't make one He has no right to tell a woman when and where to create one
So will the real men get up I know you're fed up ladies, but keep your head up

Genius at work. RIP

edit on 22-2-2013 by ArtooDetoo because: (no reason given)

Its just a load of unintelligible drival to be honest, sorry, but i dont see any real genius there. Not in a poetic sense anyway.

Originally posted by SPEZNA1
reply to post by Kapablanka

 

A hero to some but not to all. The guy could not stay out of the whole gansta crap and got shot up for it. Messing with sug's money.....not a good idea!

Oh BTW.....he didn't wear his vest because it was too hot and he sweating his azz off.

Jus' Sayin'


spez

Is this your imagination or have you got sources for that?

Why would Tupac need to mess with suge's money ?
He had plenty of his own .

reply to post by auraelium

so sad you are so judgemental and swallow everything about someone you are told.....
it's a fine example of exactly why, there will never be a savior...
he/she could never survive the media reports about him/her. If you didn't know him personally, there is plenty on this website that should have you questioning the information about which you reach your judgements to make you think twice, about said info, and judgement, in general....

Thank You OP

WARNING: EXPLICIT LANGUAGE IS USED!!!





Try to pay attention to the lyrics in the following videos



So many misunderstandings...so much confusion...it's okay and everyone is entitled to their opinion. I actually knew Pac personally and he was a wonderful, inspirational soul that really did care about humanity...that's all I will say about that here. Also, his mother is someone each and every one of us can learn "something" from.

I will add however, it is fundamentally evident that there are cultural differences and a lack of understanding about who Tupac Shakur was and what he truly stood for. I just hope that we all come together and realize that we are all the same in the end...we are all Humans and that's something none of us can change.

You will "Bleed" just like me in the "End" regardless of what color you are on the outside.

For those of you that think the word "Thug" was invented for minorities and/or blacks (I'm not passing judgement either) who like to shoot and kill, PLEASE, make sure you undersand the meaning of the word and its origin(s) before you choose to associate it with a person or a group of people. Mr. Shakur, was no dummy and when he chose the word "Thug" he had a full understanding and awareness of its meaning and how to use the word.

I will not say that I saw Pac as a "Hero", but I did see him as extremely compassionate, meaningful, inspirational and necessary.

Thug/Thag/Thugna/Thuggee etc...

Membership was sometimes passed from father to son, in what would now be termed a criminal underclass. The leaders of long-established Thug groups tended to come from these hereditary lines, as the gang developed into a criminal 'tribe'. Other men would get to know a Thug band and would hope to be recruited, in the way that one might aspire to join an elite regiment or university: they were the best operators in "the business" and, like a regiment or college fraternity, once in the group, there was a camaraderie of numbers and shared experience. The robbery became less a question of solving problems of poverty and more a profession, like soldiering.

ETA
Vibe Magazine the Lost Interview


He had so much to be angry about as many of us do today...it's very sad

ETAA:
Shuge Knight, the LAPD and the FBI are the true criminals in Tupac Shakur's death and if you care to know what lead to Tupac Shakur's demise, at least start looking at Shuge Knight and his involvement with the LAPD and off duty officers (this is also something I personally experienced)

reply to post by ThePublicEnemyNo1


thanks for adding a perspective those of us who didn't know him, but know something of what is going on, can't add and wait for you to.....we are lost but for this. No, many are not heros, per se, but added something important to the mix, and were it not for those close by to blow away the smoke of the subterfuge later, their light and what they lived and died for, would never be seen.....

Originally posted by tetra50
reply to post by ThePublicEnemyNo1

 

thanks for adding a perspective those of us who didn't know him, but know something of what is going on, can't add and wait for you to.....we are lost but for this. No, many are not heros, per se, but added something important to the mix, and were it not for those close by to blow away the smoke of the subterfuge later, their light and what they lived and died for, would never be seen.....

If you find the time, please watch the last video in my post

ETA
To sum it up and as Pro Black as many of these videos in the beginning of the video were at "That Time", this is what Tupac Shakur and so many others before him and some that have come after him are/were about at "That Time"...Tupac Shakur just took it to another level for all to undersand and that's what TPTB didn't like.

Even your kids idolize most of this Rap Crap today...smh! I bet some of you even went out and bought your kid(s) a pair of Beats By Dre headphones didn't you?

All "Rap" (not Hip Hop) is CRAAAAAAPPPPPPP!!!!!! You can see how it (the lyrics and meanings) has changed and it's terrible and now it's being used as a tool for the masses and anyone who will listen to their TRAP.

Pay attention to the lyrics folks


Jay-Z and 50 Cent are the worst

PS
You can go to my profile and check my posts related to music to see where I've been coming from. However, let me leave you all with this video as it NOW pertains to "All of Us" regardless of race as this is what Tupac Shakur was about:

reply to post by auraelium


I'm guessing you didn't actually read the content?

Your ignorance is quite telling. I'm really restraining myself right now.

2Pac or Tupac or however you want to spell it even called out the government's involvement in the war on drugs. I think he was hitting a little to close to home, and raising legitimate issues that were relevant to his community.

I'm a white guy, probably the most sheltered "wonder bread" kind of guy you'll meet -- and even I can see his message through the thugish exterior he personified.

The same people who are talking down on tupac are the same people that can learn from the guy. Especially the ones that are always bitching and complaing about our government. I'm huge fan of tupacs since I was 8 years old when mama dukes bough me a casette. Couldn't afford cds. And as a young man tupacs words are the reason why I'm smarter and wiser. He opened up my eyes to a lot of bull that goes on around us. Thanks you OP for posting this. I don't expect most ATSers to understand from a younger generation as they are like most older politicians. STUCK IN THEIR WAYS.

Yet, this guys take on "A New Level of Learned Behavior" is astronomical, in the eyes of the music execs, now that Tupac Shakur is out of the way. Eminem, even said he idolized Tupac Shakur...really? Something, like I said is fundamentally wrong here if you're paying attention to it all.

Eminem is digging a ditch and he appears in the church in prayer mode!!! For who and why? Tupac Shakur never dug a grave...well unfortunately, except for his own. Just something to think about (I am also, not religious).

Eminem


I like Eminem by the way, but, I am an adult with three adult children all who are in college (I am college educated as well). My outlook and perspective on life comes with some wisdom.

What you see is what you get nowadays in the eyes of the newbies (Newest Generation-Y) and they soak it all in verbatim!

Thing is: Great writing, great "words" are the foundation for reality, Percy Shelley called poets the "unacknowledged legislators," and they really are because their words -- when heard by those who have ears for the message -- shape worlds.

Obviously, entrenched poetry doesn't like being dug out and cast aside, once it has achieved its own power, and will bring the culture itself to bear against new poetry, if it feels threatened. The world still changes, eventually, but the poets themselves don't always live to witness the transformation.

Tupac was absolutely right; our culture is fundamentally broken. A few old "poets" are in charge now, and the power uses the poetry to maximizes its "take." But change is coming: Recognizing unfair privilege in yourself when you see it benefit you and having the moral courage to speak up against it is the antidote for both guilt AND oppression. They can be overcome.

I was already grown by the time Tupac started selling records, so I was never a huge "fan.". I don't think he was a saint, and I couldn't care less if he is / was a "hero." The whole notion of looking for "the one" to ride in and save us is boring. What we need is a world full of saviors, because that what the future "costs" if you want to make it work for everyone.

There is always room for a better mousetrap. That goes double for better people.

reply to post by 0zzymand0s


I wish I had the ability to applaude you because you deserve it.

Well Stated

reply to post by ThePublicEnemyNo1


Thank you for your words and for posting those videos. There are a few there I have never seen, and his words are powerful.

I personally do not listen to rap as it just doesn't appeal to me . I am not saying it's not a valid form of music or that it doesn't impact other people in a visceral manner but rather for me I just don't have a taste for it.

I also do not think the title of a hero is applicable to Tupac or really any musician. For me hero's are people like firefighters that stay in a burning building looking for 3 lost children even though they know the building could collapse and when it does they all lose their lives. That is a hero to me.

Both of those things being said I believe that in the creative world their are certain things where their quality just cant be denied. For example as I go through my music collection I do have one rap album which is the first full album from Wu-Tang Clan: Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers). I do not know anything about rap but I know doing a basic search tells me that this is considered one of the greatest rap albums ever. I can't really associate with the topics they rap about but just parts of it hit home and sound amazing or interesting. I think that certain things , musically, will always be amazing sound no matter what time frame or style.

You can put on Dark Side of the Moon or The Wall ...You can listen to Hendrix version of All Along the Watchtower , The Animals version of House of the Rising Sun , Sinatra singing That's Life. Various releases by The Beatles, by U2, by Led Zeppelin, The Who, The Rolling Stones, Black Sabbath , Billy Joel, Dead Can Dance, Wu-Tang, etc.. No matter how many years past ..You hear those things and you can say to yourself "this performer or group was at their peak with this song or album".. Regardless of what you normally listen to which for me is a mixture of doom and progressive metal, dark ethereal , old school goth or movie soundtracks. ..

I think their are people and bands where their talent transcends whatever title or genre is assigned to them. While I personally do not agree with some of the things that Tupac said when I do searches on him..Nor did his style appeal to me or were his experiences something that I understand being a middle aged white guy..It is easy to see in those clips that he was a dynamic , intense and one of those personalities that transcends regardless of what I think about his music.

Their are a few people from the musical world that I would love to just hang out with in a room and talk about multiple topics. David Gilmour and Roger Waters, Glenn Danzig, RZA, Layne Staley and I think talking to Tupac would be the same type of thing. Again, I wouldn't agree nor really understand him but that doesn't mean that it wouldn't be an intellectually stimulating conversation.

reply to post by opethPA


I personally think that your post is one of thought out consideration and of an open mind. Although, I am not the author of this thread, I thank you just the same

ETA
You have named some awesome examples of great and thoughtful music/lyrics...some of which I personally do not like, but I do understand the gest of the messages.

i dont know if this was mentiioned

the witness who could identify the shooter....rapper "outlawz - kadafi"

was found dead a few days later in "gang war".....

hmmmmmm