1) constat de supernaturalitate (established as supernatural),
2) constat de non supernaturalitate (established as not supernatural); or
3) non constat de supernaturalitate (not established as supernatural).
Originally posted by Kapablanka
the fact that you seems intent on slandering them
Can you provide some example of these seers and what they write?
Originally posted by Kapablanka
I'm thrown off with the whole church association, as if it provides a relative angle of reality to base things on.
Finally, the Church has spoken authoritatively on Holy Love Ministries and its 83-acre site of Maranatha Spring and Shrine in Ohio. Despite all the usual Catholic trappings — chapel, statues, rosaries and religious bookstore, not to mention the throngs from across the country and globe — the purported visions by Maureen Sweeney-Kyle have been condemned. Bishop Richard Lennon, head of the Cleveland Catholic Diocese, has issued a decree to clergy and laity of the diocese that Holy Love Ministries of Lorain County is officially off limits.
According to The Morning Journal newspaper of Ohio, Bishop Lennon’s decree was issued Nov. 11, 2009:
“Having been directed by the Holy See (in Rome) to act definitively in the matter of the alleged apparitions … and having reviewed the theological content of the alleged apparitions to Maureen Sweeney-Kyle and having consulted an expert in this matter, I … declare that the alleged apparitions and locations … are not supernatural in origin.” Lennon’s decree states he “forbid members of the clergy of any ecclesiastical jurisdiction” to celebrate the sacraments on the site of Holy Love Ministries.
“I admonish the faithful of the Diocese of Cleveland to cease gathering for any religious, liturgical, spiritual or devotional purpose on the site of Holy Love Ministries and declare that the Confraternity of the United Hearts of Jesus and Mary is not an approved association of the Christian faithful in the Diocese of Cleveland and may not legitimately use the name “Catholic” or represent itself as a Catholic group,” Lennon said in his decree.
Originally posted by guitarplayer
That is something that Protestants don’t have a problem with?
I don't know of any protestant that believe in any of these BS apparitions or mystics. Apparitions of mary and Jesus are false demonic sightings and as far as mystics are concerned most protestants think they are BS too.
In 1882, Christ revealed to the stigmatist, Marie Julie Jahenny of La Fraudais, France that:
"During the time of the approach of the punishments announced at La Salette, an unlimited amount of FALSE REVELATIONS will arise from hell like a swarm of flies; a last attempt of Satan to choke and destroy the belief in the TRUE REVELATIONS by false ones."
The first responsibility of the faithful is to remain firmly established in the faith, in the sacraments and in communion with the Pope and bishops. Any Catholic who gives their primary attention to alleged private revelation at the expense of Sacred Scripture, the teaching of the Church (especially the Catechism), sacramental practice, prayer and fidelity to Church authority is off course. The running after spiritual phenomena, such as alleged revelations, is condemned by St. John of the Cross as spiritual avarice. This means that pious souls who would be repulsed by crude materialistic greed think nothing of being greedy to know revelations and prophecies. An exclusive, or even a predominant attention to these matters (especially apocalyptic ones), cannot help but produce an unbalanced spirituality. Should the Church condemn some favorite alleged revelation such a person may find themselves believing more in it than in the supernatural authority of the Church. The devil will have succeeded in what he had set out to do.
The second responsibility is to have regard, in the first place, for those private revelations and apparitions approved by the Church. Within a balanced practice of the faith the edifying content of approved private revelations can be a motive for deeper piety and fidelity to the Gospel. God has chosen to give guidance to the Church in particular eras in this way and we would, as I noted above, be imprudent to disregard altogether what are credibly His prophetic interventions in the life of His Church.
Finally, there are many other private revelations that have not received Church approval. The Second Vatican Council urges us to discern the Spirit in the case of such extraordinary graces [Lumen gentium 12], which means being neither gullible or incredulous, but subjecting them to all relevant theological and human tests of credibility. Clearly, in this the judgment of the local bishop is the key element of such a discernment as I noted above. Often enough, unfortunately, the laity are left to make this determination themselves, relying on the testimony of the events, the judgment of holy and orthodox priests and common sense. It must always be kept in mind that however credible and reasonable such revelations seem to be, God would never ask one to separate oneself from the faith and discipline of the Church to follow it.
Deut. 18:20-22 (NIV)"A prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.
Jer 23:21 I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.
Jer 23:22 But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.
Isa 30:10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
Canon Law and the Obligation of Obedience by the Faithful
As the bishops are entrusted with the responsibilities of discerning and ruling on apparitions as stemming from the nature of their office, so there are fundamental responsibilities on the part of the members of the diocese. First, they are to obey their bishops when the latter act as Christ's representatives (canon 212), that is, when they teach formally or establish binding discipline as pastors of a particular church. This obedience owed to the bishops in their capacity as leaders of particular churches is intended to promote the common good. Canon 753 also speaks of the "religious assent" owed to the bishops' teaching authority, which means a special quality of respect and gratitude, along with critical awareness and good will. Hence, there should be intelligent obedience to ecclesiastical authority in the matter of alleged apparitions.