I claim complete enlightenment

reply to post by Chamberf=6


in the next life then

reply to post by preludefanguy

in the next life then

...Or after a few more (if lucky) after that.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Glad you are amused..

Which I did mean in a positive way.

Originally posted by Dragonfly79
What are you doing for others?

edit on 28-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

What I have in mind would be a site with audio and animations, certainly not of yours truly don't worry but with movies with a kind of subliminal hypnotic/binaural content, general explanations, online courses. I'm preparing to sell my house so I can emigrate in a couple of years and live off grid so I can work it all out without any disturbances. Not just the texts but also the animations which will take a lot of time to create if only on software. If nothing happens so be it, but as I have results I'm sure anybody can.

It will take a lot of time as you can understand and I'm still preparing. I would like to present a credible, understandable view of life which can be easily understood by anyone. The subject I have most difficulty with to present this all is about the otherworldly part, but which is the most interesting and exciting and could be a great benefit for spiritual development. I may be a brave person myself but I know a lot are not and when taken seriously can lead to a lot of fears, which I don't want to spread around. My dream would be to found something like an ashram or eco conscious sustainable spiritual community but I'm happy if I can just produce one meaningful site.

reply to post by Dragonfly79

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by Dragonfly79
I've seen too many people with their heads in the clouds yelling all kinds of things which makes sense to them I'm sure but doesn't necessarily do much for others, which they seldom seem to realize.

What are you doing for others?

You have told me of your hopes and dreams but you have not told me what you are doing for others.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by Dragonfly79

 

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by Dragonfly79
I've seen too many people with their heads in the clouds yelling all kinds of things which makes sense to them I'm sure but doesn't necessarily do much for others, which they seldom seem to realize.

What are you doing for others?

You have told me of your hopes and dreams but you have not told me what you are doing for others.

edit on 29-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

I already posted an answer to that which apparently you find unacceptable but that's ok, it doesn't bother me as I don't need your support or approval although I welcome your input. You do not seem to realize it takes an amount of time to do something which I described, maybe you can do that faster if you believe you have something to share which might benefit others ofcourse.

I personally do not think it's anyone's obligation to help another certainly not in spiritual matters but if someone did achieve something I would be grateful to such a person if he or she would write it down so I could read it someday (free, ofcourse) and don't need to invent the the same wheel for myself. And preferably in a movie format, doesn't need to be Hollywood quality, but that's what I intent to do.

In the end I do everything for myself and expect everyone to do the same, that's because I believe that's the only way people can become mentally strong individuals who need no one but themselves. Once that is established healthy relations might happen but otherwise there will always be the group of people depending on eachother with a few at the top who are the most strongest and rule everyone, who everyone looks up to but can't imagine to become themselves. If I have enough I can share or maybe assist others but if I don't I can forget about that and have to rely on myself. Which might not work for everyone as I have less than average needs and a more than average willingness to learn how to fend for myself.

But I digress, hope you don't divert the intention of the thread to a service to self vs service to others discussion as neither would work I believe but together there can be balance. Except on a larger picture everyone should do something for others as there will always be those physically unable to perform certain tasks in society.

I don't believe however doing something for another brings about guaranteed happiness or can be considered a good deed which might get one closer to heaven.

People have to help themselves in spiritual matters so they learn how to overcome the negative in life. I can't do that for anyone nor would I want to become someone's guardian forever but I would want to share what works for me or what I've seen works for others. There are tons of spiritual teachers out there but none worked for me, I would prefer something without a central figure and just basic guidelines to think about. But for something what I want takes years to complete, I'm not bothered by anyone pointing out I'm not there yet.

Originally posted by Dragonfly79
But it doesn't do anything for me, I find it amusing at best. Sorry if that sounds belittling but I've seen too many people with their heads in the clouds yelling all kinds of things which makes sense to them I'm sure but doesn't necessarily do much for others, which they seldom seem to realize.

edit on 27/5/2013 by Dragonfly79 because: (no reason given)

Then maybe you shouldn't expect me to do anything for others either.

Originally posted by Dragonfly79
But for something what I want takes years to complete, I'm not bothered by anyone pointing out I'm not there yet.

At the end of the day if you are not there yet how can you offer advice and laugh at what might be wisdom?

reply to post by Dragonfly79

So here is my claim to complete, neverending enlightenment Text

Also your claim to undeserved self aggrandizement
.

Originally posted by ItisnowagainThen maybe you shouldn't expect me to do anything for others either.

edit on 29-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by Dragonfly79
But for something what I want takes years to complete, I'm not bothered by anyone pointing out I'm not there yet.

At the end of the day if you are not there yet how can you offer advice and laugh at what might be wisdom?

edit on 29-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

I never posted I am perfect, it's just most people associate with enlightenment as attaining perfection. All I claim I have realized something which I think is difficult for most people because it would mean giving up a career or a household and I would like to find a way to pass this along.

I didn't mean to laugh, it's actually something sad even though I might make my words sound even worse. I just got annoyed by people who are convinced they have something of which I'm no different except I have an underlying system which I'm translating so I can share with others. Instead of those who just keep repeating those messages but without much of a reason, at least for people like me who are not impressed or to whom the I AM and all the nonsense about denying one's self leading to enlightenment. It just lacks content to me of which I understand that is half because of my interpetration but also half of how the other is communicating his or her message. Wisdom should be obvious to see and if not it should be left alone

Obviously we differ where that place should be, where one should be at the end of the day or at the end of one's life. I am convinced I am already at a place I am happy with, you say you know it and there are even better places out there. I'm sure you do but I don't find you convincing enough and probably never will and I'm not going to discuss it from that angle any longer as I've made most of my choices after considering a lot of different opinions on the subject.

Originally posted by Chamberf=6
reply to post by Dragonfly79

 

So here is my claim to complete, neverending enlightenment Text

Also your claim to undeserved self aggrandizement
.

It's still better than considering oneself a worthless sinful being. Also I would like to empower people, your contribution would go to the section of negative manipulation techniques on how to make people disbelieve in themselves so they become weaker and easier to use for one's own gains.

Dragonfly

I believe you have had awakening

as for full enlightenment, it is still within your grasp

the cessation of your suffering, the release from emotional attachment to any of your thoughts or thoughts of others, is right in front of you

but do not be fooled by your own revelations, if one is not fully enlightened, but claims to be so, then they will not know that there is still uncovering to be done

I see much spiritual greatness in you

if one is still agitated or moved by another's remarks, then you know there is still work to be done

and again I say, for others in this thread, full enlightenment is the resting point yes, but once one is at rest, they can do good work here on earth while they remain in the body, when the mind and soul are at rest, the work of the body can produce much great fruit for yourself and for all

Originally posted by preludefanguy
Dragonfly

I believe you have had awakening

You believe I want your faith in me because you use others for that to keep yourself believing in your awakening? Because that is not the system I would ever want to follow to have the feeling I am awake and have something substantial, dependent on other peoples' belief.

as for full enlightenment, it is still within your grasp

You already lost me, I already hung up, I very much doubt the image you have of me in your mind is more than 50% true so I can't even consider what you say anymore as being remotely true.

if one is still agitated or moved by another's remarks, then you know there is still work to be done

and again I say, for others in this thread, full enlightenment is the resting point yes, but once one is at rest, they can do good work here on earth while they remain in the body, when the mind and soul are at rest, the work of the body can produce much great fruit for yourself and for all

Full enlightenment is not to be considered a resting point because it might lead to laziness and no longer verifying if something still holds true, because of progress things change inevitably and so does heaven, one day a better heaven could be created but the resting soul would never try those fruits, deemed different than the only true enlightenment from ages ago.

It is when fighting is no longer there only in the projection of the mind of the other who appeared to initiate it. Fighting is what prevents the sense of peace but when the fighting has been seen through and stops is when the mind can look around and so see other things than 'the fight'.

This means ofcourse most of humanity must be left behind in their struggle and there you have my attachment, the place I'm going to doesn't have many from this planet and I would like others to go there as well but I understand it's difficult to reach so it is in my own self interest as well I pass this along for everyone willing to look into.

Originally posted by Dragonfly79

Originally posted by preludefanguy
Dragonfly

I believe you have had awakening

You believe I want your faith in me because you use others for that to keep yourself believing in your awakening? Because that is not the system I would ever want to follow to have the feeling I am awake and have something substantial, dependent on other peoples' belief.

as for full enlightenment, it is still within your grasp

You already lost me, I already hung up, I very much doubt the image you have of me in your mind is more than 50% true so I can't even consider what you say anymore as being remotely true.

if one is still agitated or moved by another's remarks, then you know there is still work to be done

and again I say, for others in this thread, full enlightenment is the resting point yes, but once one is at rest, they can do good work here on earth while they remain in the body, when the mind and soul are at rest, the work of the body can produce much great fruit for yourself and for all

Full enlightenment is not to be considered a resting point because it might lead to laziness and no longer verifying if something still holds true, because of progress things change inevitably and so does heaven, one day a better heaven could be created but the resting soul would never try those fruits, deemed different than the only true enlightenment from ages ago.

It is when fighting is no longer there only in the projection of the mind of the other who appeared to initiate it. Fighting is what prevents the sense of peace but when the fighting has been seen through and stops is when the mind can look around and so see other things than 'the fight'.

This means ofcourse most of humanity must be left behind in their struggle and there you have my attachment, the place I'm going to doesn't have many from this planet and I would like others to go there as well but I understand it's difficult to reach so it is in my own self interest as well I pass this along for everyone willing to look into.

edit on 29/5/2013 by Dragonfly79 because: (no reason given)

Awakening depends on nobody's faith, beliefs, or contributions. Awakening is uncovering and taking off all the different costumes we put on our soul. It is existing in bare essence, an essence that will always be, before and beyond our own beliefs, or faith.

In your words I see attachment, you speak with attachment, and I have come to know attachment as an emergent property to that of illusion, which attachment then leads to suffering.

Maybe you should read what I said, instead of being ever so eager to offer your rebuttal. What I meant is resting point for 'mind' 'soul' a satisfaction of sorts, that stops the madness in peoples heads. From this point on, the work really begins, as one is still in form, there is much to do. Even the soul that exists onward is in form. I said I agreed with you, if you would have read carefully, we should try to move forward and see what we can leave behind in the space we occupied for a moment so that others too may find their way.

We should all stop looking at our differences, accept our own greatness and areas where work needs to be done, and take a long look at all that holds us together.

also, the only one that needs truth validated, is one that is still seeking it

Originally posted by preludefanguy
Awakening depends on nobody's faith, beliefs, or contributions. Awakening is uncovering and taking off all the different costumes we put on our soul. It is existing in bare essence, an essence that will always be, before and beyond our own beliefs, or faith.

You say it exists but believe it's like costume taking off. How can you deny speaking against your own statements? I once believed it was all about taking costumes off too, looking at some imaginary core. But then I discovered the core was trying to look at itself and costumes are really fun. What else is there to do but dress up and pretend in this grand theatre with all these sounds and sights. Better make an interesting costume and interact than none.

In your words I see attachment, you speak with attachment, and I have come to know attachment as an emergent property to that of illusion, which attachment then leads to suffering.

You should know claiming some enlightenment what you see is only your interpretation. Whether or not there is truly attachment in me is only I could know, not you trying to convince me otherwise.

Maybe you should read what I said, instead of being ever so eager to offer your rebuttal.

Likewise, maybe you should open your own topic or leave this one alone.

What I meant is resting point for 'mind' 'soul' a satisfaction of sorts, that stops the madness in peoples heads. From this point on, the work really begins, as one is still in form, there is much to do. Even the soul that exists onward is in form. I said I agreed with you, if you would have read carefully, we should try to move forward and see what we can leave behind in the space we occupied for a moment so that others too may find their way.

We cannot move forward like our minds magically align to the same truth verifyable by all. I can move and so can you and maybe we might have similarities and differences to point out but other than that I move like I want to and so should you. If you did read my topic you should know I believe there are two spaces, not one like you suggest and in both are merely projections of one another.

We should all stop looking at our differences, accept our own greatness and areas where work needs to be done, and take a long look at all that holds us together.

also, the only one that needs truth validated, is one that is still seeking it

edit on 30-5-2013 by preludefanguy because: (no reason given)

Now you go ahead unchecked assuming I am out to seek validation, mistaking truth for untruth again if that is what makes you happy.

reply to post by Dragonfly79


If you think I am speaking against my own statements, then go on and think it. The truth is, is that costumes bring about suffering from attachment to illusion. If one had a clear understanding of what is, then illusion would no longer hold. Being attached to illusion is for the mind that believes in its conception through form. Being aware that awareness has no attachments, and only morphs to those things that we keep in mind longer than we should, and that awareness has always been, within this lies the key to immortality and to undenied happiness. This is not an illusory core as you believe me to be saying it is. It is not a core, it is not defined, what defines and separates it, is the experience that it is currently aware of.

Much can be read about a person's state of mind by their body, actions and words. Words are symbols for our conscious mind to be able to interact with and communicate in the physical world. Symbols that we use are symbols that resonate with our current state of awareness. If this state of awareness has filters(those that shape our reality) to pass through, it will manifest in body, action and speech.

If you wish me to leave this topic alone, then I will, this will be my last post on it.

There is a level, where nothing is projecting it, but rather, this level projects all. This level, is infinite possibility, and we are just forms, picked out from infinite possibility, to exist in the finite, to be separate and distinguishable.

One of the things I like about you, is that you don't take anyone else' truth as your own, and you seek your own truth with full conviction. Be careful not to be blinded by that conviction. Also, be warned of contacts with other worldly beings, they also have their own versions of truth that do not align with the highest truth, but rather with self preservation. All forms need energy to sustain.


"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Mahatma Gandhi

Originally posted by preludefanguy
reply to post by Dragonfly79

 

If you think I am speaking against my own statements, then go on and think it. The truth is, is that costumes bring about suffering from attachment to illusion.

Costumes can bring about suffering and attachment but that is just because of the way it is used. These customes allow us to interact, they add to reality, it's the wearer that decides whether it's positive or not and it becomes that.

If you wish me to leave this topic alone, then I will, this will be my last post on it.

Absolutely not the case, feel free even if you are against something I said is true for me, this testing is what makes the individuals' faith stronger knowing it is still there after thinking about anothers' rebuttal. As long as there is a why in it, otherwise there can't be much to think about.

One of the things I like about you, is that you don't take anyone else' truth as your own, and you seek your own truth with full conviction. Be careful not to be blinded by that conviction.

Thanks and I will, I have sought out many peoples' truth over the years believe it or not I have spend years of reading different kinds of work and adopt others' truths. But none held overtime. I have already found truths but not a way to present them to others in a more appealing way.

Also, be warned of contacts with other worldly beings, they also have their own versions of truth that do not align with the highest truth, but rather with self preservation. All forms need energy to sustain.

Thanks again but you don't need to warn me, have had this contact since age 5 when it started, it went away and returned over the years with the last 7 years or so being there 24/7 and only the last year managing to gain more control. It's not perfect and I have had a lot of troubles with it (mostly preoccupation, nothing bad) but not anymore. But its true it can be extremely upsetting and become the cause of much suffering.

I hope you are not suggesting vampirism or something like that with the last line. It's true they need my attention to allow communication with me but that is a natural exchange. Otherwise they cost me little more energy than 'normal' human beings. I have my source of energy which I use to sustain myself but so does everyone else, no need to use anyone elses'. There is also no energy flowing directly from me to an otherworldy being. I have met beings which appeared to be drawing energy from another but those are just the lesser beings or those that use lesser techniques, they are in fact generating and drawing energy from the projection of me which is made from their own energy, from their own source no matter how they perceive this. It's just some beings are convinced that is the way it works for them to be as they are and they wouldn't dare changing it as they might cease to exist, haha. Sad though.

So I was thinking more about how to address this problem or talk about it with others. In another thread in the offtopic section I posted about the ET subject. Basically this is my problem or everyone's problem really as it affects everyone and I doubt anyone can refute this theory but if anyone can please do so.

So copy & pasted from the offtopic section where I tried to verbalize this problem about scales and differences in measurement, how thinking about ET years ago got me where I am today and how the possibility of ET can be used to demonstrate this problem.

Everybody can easily accept there being more advanced civilizations out there without proof simply because that is where we could be going but most important because it is more likely there is life out there than there is not.

The thing is when people accept ET as true then all kinds of things change because of it indirectly. For an easy example let's say people give (religious figures) like Jesus, Buddha or Mohammed a 10 for spirituality and everyone accepts this as the highest possible in all of existence.

But in all of existence there is ET and he or she comes and is like a 100 but people can't imagine beyond 10 so the ET explains how Jesus is a 10 to humanity but not even 0,0000000001 on ET's scale. If we accept ET's ways any human could become more on ET's scale we would have to readjust a lot of views, something a lot of people are simply not prepared to do, unless ET actually hovers around the planet in spaceships because then there is a visible choice and one (spiritual goal; heaven) can be exchanged for the other (ET's view of heaven). So just thinking about or imagining ET can put life in a different perspective because there is something different than what we know to compare ourselves with, instead of humans comparing themselves with humans like it happened for centuries. In my case I guess I was lucky it lead to something, but unlucky as well as I had my own difficulties.

What I didn't post in the other topic is something metaphysical about the afterlife. Because I believe if the living would know without a doubt, impossible to deny, there is life out there -and- it's heaven is greater than any known on Earth then the ancestors or spirits some of the living are in contact with might learn and then this information would go around the beyond like wildfire and all kinds of phenomena might set off or put in motion, which would interact through the living creating all kinds of power changes. Afterall religions biggest power has been the promise of reaching heaven, if one obeys rules and respects those in power and their power one might reach heaven but if not then there is no alternative but hell. But if ET's heaven (or view of it and methods to realize/reach that) is a fact then this presents an alternative and souls might leave the known heavens and so those in power would lose their power to ET, who would then give it back to the soul who would want to follow ET.

So that is why I posted earlier I either have to leave the physical or remain silent about anything immaterial for the duration of me being here in the physical, which I mention in case anyone would choose to learn about this - these are the difficulties I have been yet unable to solve for myself even though I can remain unaffected by it. Everything on Earth is dependent, heaven is dependent on the existence of hell because of which I can't consider places like those as heaven anymore. Seeing heaven as a state of mind then people appear to feel good because of other people feeling bad. If a state of mind isn't bad, then it must be good. Only those without any substance can go on forever about there not being good nor bad, at some point decisions about where to go or how to become have to be made for there to be anything of substance or importance.

This theory (there being an alternative and even better heaven outside of Earth) once realized as fact by the follower cannot be denied by anyone but if it would be denied that person would know he or she would be fooling themselves making their view of heaven unreal in exchange for the promise of being in the same heaven as those they knew and loved in life. Or in present day regarding heaven as a state of mind one would be out of touch with the 'common reality' everybody believes is true but in touch with the common reality which also encompasses realities held by ET's elsewhere in the universe.

Originally posted by Dragonfly79
So here is my claim to complete, neverending enlightenment and in this topic I'll write about how it all went down. Ofcourse being enlightened and all nobody has to acknowledge or respect my claim which is how everything should be.


This thread can be used to communicate with these two enlightened beings, feel free to ask them anything but know that I decide which questions I answer. And just to be sure there is no confusion from newagers, no this isn't a channeled thread, you ask a question, I go see them and ask them, I leave and wait and then I go back and check to see if they have finished their anwer which I then convey here in my own words, rather than allowing these two beings to take me over and answer through my body from their truth, which isn't the case as I speak from mine.

Who is it that is claiming enlightenment? Is it you or the two beings you speak with to answer the questions asked?
If you have to go to a being and ask questions, does that mean you don't have the answer without them?

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Who is it that is claiming enlightenment?

Why don't you just ask instead of playing those games over and over again? Not that I find you boring, it's just your attitude I find repetitive that is getting nowhere. In my existence ofcourse, I'm sure it's different in yours, or maybe I'm mistaken and you could say something about that.

Is it you or the two beings you speak with to answer the questions asked?

I'm just trying different approaches, this is one of them.

If you have to go to a being and ask questions, does that mean you don't have the answer without them?

I'm not going anywhere, it's more like telephone/sdsl working towards the immaterial equivalent of glassfibre.

You probably want to suggest I cannot think for myself and try to lead me on to form some negative self image of my self in an attempt to shut me up or disprove what I'm talking about. At least that is the impression I get from your posts. I would kindly ask you to focus more on what I'm trying to express, such as asking yourself why would anyone contact immaterial beings and discuss with them?

In my opinion I have been born into a world with preexisting ideas which I have exposed myself to and have to work with. I could let it all go if I wanted to and go do other things with my life however this is important to me in my current stage of development. Sooner or later I'll have to let it all go, if it were not for the more mundane work that I have to do, as in my job and hopefully starting a family. Which is another reason I am thinking about all of this as I don't want my children to have to go through life wrestling these subjects. Not that I want to go into parenting, if my child(ren) decide not to take up this 'hobby' then that's fine with me and I'll love them just as much.

Anyway my point being everyone is influenced by another in some way. We are all in this together and we all influence eachother, like it or not. Better to speak about how we are influencing eachother and learning how to express 'yes' or 'no' to an idea than remain silent forever or postpone making decisions about important issues (faith).

So I think about things, I make up questions, the answer is usually hidden in the question, then I check my answer with others and consider their opinion about it. I do this in the material and immaterial. I'm also interested in Buddhist debating, but we could discuss Greek styles of debating as well though that is native to me and I'm still exploring Asian debating philosophies. Not that I claim to be an expert, on the contrary - that is one of the reasons I posted this thread.

reply to post by Dragonfly79


I ask questions to verify what it is you claim? What are you claiming as 'enlightenment' in your thread title?
Why do you assume I am playing games? I have asked genuine and valid questions. I don't just assume I know what you are talking about or where you are coming from yet it seems you are quite defensive when I show an interest and ask you questions.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by Dragonfly79

 

I ask questions to verify what it is you claim? What are you claiming as 'enlightenment' in your thread title?
Why do you assume I am playing games? I have asked genuine and valid questions. I don't just assume I know what you are talking about or where you are coming from yet it seems you are quite defensive when I show an interest and ask you questions.

Ok, whatever you say is true for you. I have posted my definition already.

So what do you think of this theory of a civilization somewhere in this universe of trillions of years old, who built a machine in the material and immaterial so it would exist in this 3rd layer, beyond space and time which contains all of existence, past present and future and is at any time and any place readily accessible by anyone striving to make contact with it and by which methods can be learned to reach enlightenment?