Was Jesus worshiped as God?, page 3

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

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Jesus was not worshiped as God... because he himself said only God has to be worshiped.

Why do we have to worship "God"? My parents never asked me to worship them...

You would think such a being would be less worried about being appreciated and more worried about cleaning up the mess he made. In fact, I daresay that might take care of the whole appreciation problem as well.

Exactly.... goofiest thing I hear is our purpose is to worship God. Really? Thats not my purpose.

We live in matter, and the atmosphere is getting denser by the day.... matter is taking hold even more. We are a society driven by materialism and consumerism. Nature will change the course only because it goes against the entire system. This is where the line is drawn. Reset.... try again. Try and keep trying until you get it right, thus immersion, or reformation, or reincarnation.... whatever word you choose. It happens.

reply to post by Murgatroid

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The appropriate worship then in this context is one of gratitude and appreciation, that we too are included as children of a loving God whereby all things were made by the father for the son because of love.

reply to post by MamaJ

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Meaning.... the first and last Adam. This is why his last words were "Its finished".

Alpha and Omega didn't mean the first and the last Adam. Take another look here.

Revelation 1:8

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

The Alpha and Omega is the "Almighty".

Isaiah 44:6

6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isaiah 46:12

12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

When Christ said, "It's finished" right before he died, he was stating that he had completed the fulfillment of the law and the scriptures that were written about him. That's what he said he came to do.

Luke 24:44

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

reply to post by Murgatroid

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I was about to say that Jesus was/is God according to Christians. He's the son of God, but also is God.

"Jesus -- the most indenity confused figure in religious history"

And if I were an alien and visiting Earth, I would probably think Christians worship him on first glance.

Originally posted by MystikMushroom
reply to post by Murgatroid

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And if I were an alien and visiting Earth, I would probably think Christians worship him on first glance.

They're probably already all Christians anyway in the sense that there is one God and one universal principal by which everything that is was created.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

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They're probably already all Christians anyway in the sense that there is one God and one universal principal by which everything that is was created.

I doubt it, considering they've probably already mastered every trick your god ever performed. Resurrection, the creation of planets, telepathy, mind control, divination, all of it.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

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That's precisely why they would understand and honor and recognize "my God".

Edit to add: And no matter the degree to which they've evolved scientifically, even if they themselves have become God-like astro-engineers, they would probably also recognize the Creative Agency by which they also first come into existence..

It's elementary dear Watson.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

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Why do we have to worship "God"? My parents never asked me to worship them...

Neither did my parents ask me to worship God. And here we are now, on opposite sides of the fence.

Interesting isn't it. All humans begin existence as a mass of cells and later acquire sentience. But at one point we separate into two camps. One camp identifies their Maker and worships Him. The other camp denies Him... and blindly assume that denying God automatically removes them from the equation between God and mankind.

You would think such a being would be less worried about being appreciated and more worried about cleaning up the mess he made. In fact, I daresay that might take care of the whole appreciation problem as well.

God is sovereign. Nothing humans do will ever increase or decrease His glory.
God doesn't need feel "appreciated", because He has no wants or needs. Instead it is mankind who has wants and needs from the time we are born. Those who believe in God, realize that "wants" exist even after our lives end on earth and make provisions for it through submission to God.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

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The other camp denies Him... and blindly assume that denying God automatically removes them from the equation between God and mankind.

I will deny any god who spends more time pushing his own importance than he does fixing the mess he saw coming long before it even happened. I will respect a god who shows the initiative to take care of what he sees wrong, instead of acting more helpless than all of his children put together. I've seen more effort from politicians, and that's saying something.

God doesn't need feel "appreciated", because He has no wants or needs.

Then there's no need to worship him, is there?

Instead it is mankind who has wants and needs from the time we are born. Those who believe in God, realize that "wants" exist even after our lives end on earth and make provisions for it through submission to God.

I would rather teach myself to fish and eat for a lifetime.

reply to post by eight bits

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You needn't hang so much on a word. Thesaurus and dicitionary arguments are always weak.

Actually a lot of theology rests on the meanings of the greek / hebrew words. Nothing clears up theological misconceptions better than understanding the correct meanings of words.

Here the key word is "worship", as we read in our english bibles.
It turns out that both the Greek and Hebrew word for "worship" can also mean an act of homage.

This act of homage was given to ordinary humans (like Daniel and those people in Revelations 3. When read in english, it would seem odd that they were given "worshiped"... because we associate "worship" with God. However, when we learn that the greek word for "worship" could also mean an act of homage or honor, it begins to make sense. This was the kind of "worship" that Jesus received.

When it comes to Godly worship Jesus himself said that only God is to be worshiped...as did the angel.

So, maybe the better question is when did Jesus become worshipped as God? John 20: 28 reports Thomas, already established in that Gospel as a Jewish disciple, addressed the risen Jesus as "My Lord and my God." It's a little hard to explain that one as a polite greeting between two men.

I already addressed Thomas' words earlier.

Yes, its not a polite greeting, but rather an exclamation where Thomas referred to God AND Jesus as two separate entities. Does not mean Thomas believed Jesus was God.

Thomas's use of the word "Lord" to address Jesus is also telling.

The word "Lord" is like saying Master or leader... or someone with authority. Like the word "worship" it too can be associated with God and man.

With regard to Jesus, God and "Lord" are used in the same sentence, but have always meant 2 different entities. Some examples from the NT

James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ - James 1:1
- Basically meaning that James was a servant of God AND Jesus. Does not mean they are the same person.

Even Paul, who I disagree with, understood there was an equation between God and Jesus.
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ.... -Ephesians 1:17

There are tons of other verses which make clear the fact that God and Jesus are 2 separate entities. Christians ignore all of that and cling on to a single misunderstood verse of John 20:28.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

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The other camp denies Him... and blindly assume that denying God automatically removes them from the equation between God and mankind.

I will deny any god who spends more time pushing his own importance than he does fixing the mess he saw coming long before it even happened. I will respect a god who shows the initiative to take care of what he sees wrong, instead of acting more helpless than all of his children put together. I've seen more effort from politicians, and that's saying something.

God doesn't need feel "appreciated", because He has no wants or needs.

Then there's no need to worship him, is there?

Instead it is mankind who has wants and needs from the time we are born. Those who believe in God, realize that "wants" exist even after our lives end on earth and make provisions for it through submission to God.

I would rather teach myself to fish and eat for a lifetime.

The reason is because of an unfathomable invitation (from the beginning of time) - please click on my signature and read the first section of the article, and you'll understand that we are equally responsible from our end to help God lay down the kingdom of heaven on earth - that we are partners with God.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

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You think extraterrestrial beings are bound to be Christians? Ha. Hahaha. HAHAHAHA!!!

Most entities channeled through various mediums have attested to the nature of Source. It is not a conscious entity, it is a state of being. Plain and simple. No god, just a form of existence. That's what 'god' is, an existential state. Although it's kind of hard to talk about existing when you technically don't even have an individual identity, considering how the final phase is a conglomerate of every available experience in all of the universes. You know, complete and total unity, all of time and space compressed in one titular moment of reminiscence that lasts until you return to a corporeal form.

That's what Ra says, at least. As well as Seth. Both of whom make more sense than a benevolent god who calls himself jealousy and condemns people because they chose not to accept the destiny he had planned for them. But we still have free will! Yeah, the Mafia gives you free will too. Do as they say or die.

Anyway, here's the big reason extraterrestrials probably won't be Christians. Extraterrestrials presumably operate off of a highly developed system of cognitive function - that is to say, their logic has advanced far beyond what we're capable of due to their technologically enhanced perception of the universe and its secret workings. This can be seen in the manner by which they are able to elude even our most sophisticated defense systems.

As such, they are most likely not a faith based species. Which pretty much eliminates any kind of Judaic religion.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

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please click on my signature and read the first section of the article, and you'll understand that we are equally responsible from our end to help God lay down the kingdom of heaven on earth - that we are partners with God.

Partners work together. Partners do not operate within a slave and master relationship. A partner does demand that his associate follow his plans, or he will not only be fired, but also blacklisted and sent to work in the mines. A partner does not demand worship, does not exhibit a superiority complex, and does not condone the destructive behavior of his associates. He does not design a flawed partner for himself and then spend his time encouraging said partner to suppress these flaws before giving him every opportunity to make an absolute idiot out of himself, then blackmail him by demanding all ownership licensing and every share in the company in return for absolution.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

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Then there's no need to worship him, is there?

There is no "one" answer". Its like asking "is there a need to appreciate a sunrise".


Some people appreciate it and others don't. The fact remains that the sun shines in the sky and its brightness is neither increased by people who appreciate it.... nor is it decreased because of those who don't. Yet, without the sun all of us stumble about in the cold and the dark. So it is us who need the suns heat and light... its not the sun that needs our appreciation.

With God, He IS there.... whether or not we acknowledge and worship Him. It neither adds to his glory nor takes away from it. In the end, we find out that we need Him, not the other way round.

I would rather teach myself to fish and eat for a lifetime.

We all do that. Except some of us do our "fishing" with God in our lives.

reply to post by Deetermined

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Keep studying... it really goes deeper my friend.. just sayin. It does.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

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The thread I linked you to in a prior post..... really.. it would make you really question what you have been taught. Study earnestly and you will see the Word for what he is . Magnificent! The first and last Adam... the first and last man. The creation of man is an ascension into spirit from matter. Jesus story.... is our story and its a beautiful one.

reply to post by Hillarie

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At a later point it says that God gave power over everything in the universe to Jesus. So Jesus clearly has a divine nature. He's not just a man. He's a part of God that incarnated for a little while.

You make it sound as if God retired and gave Jesus control of the universe. Doesn't make any sense.

Jesus is a part of God in the sense, he is the word of God. He is "special" in the sense God created him directly inside Marys womb. He was something like Adam who was also created by God, except Adam was made from scratch.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Hillarie

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At a later point it says that God gave power over everything in the universe to Jesus. So Jesus clearly has a divine nature. He's not just a man. He's a part of God that incarnated for a little while.

You make it sound as if God retired and gave Jesus control of the universe. Doesn't make any sense.

Jesus is a part of God in the sense, he is the word of God. He is "special" in the sense God created him directly inside Marys womb. He was something like Adam who was also created by God, except Adam was made from scratch.

And wouldn't that make you special too?
God created you directly inside your mother's womb through the union of your father and your mother?

If your answer is No, Then your Father and Mother created you, right? Does that sound like they're equally God?

Does it sound like Trinity? Father, Mother, and Child?

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