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Was Jesus worshiped as God?

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posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 01:41 AM
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1. "Worship" directed towards Jesus.

And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
-Matthew 8:2


There are several such verses where Jesus receives worship. These verses are used to support the claim that Jesus was actually God, because after all, only God can be worshiped. But what if the word "worship" means something other than the kind of worship we associate with the kind directed towards God?

Its important to know how the Greek word used for "worship" in the NT, proskuneo is defined.



Thayers definition :
1. To kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence
2. Among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence
3. in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication
4. Used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank
- to the Jewish high priests
- to God
- to Christ
- to heavenly beings
- to demons

Strongs definition:
[meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master's hand; to fawn or crouch to, that is, (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore): - worship.
source

We clearly see that the word for "worship" can also mean showing honor, homage and respect between humans. Its usage in the NT, does not always mean the same as worship that is directed towards God.


2. "Worship" directed towards others in the Bible.
There are examples of "worship", directed at other people.

Example 1-
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
-Revelations 3:9

Since the same word prosekuneo appears in verses that used to prove Jesus received Godly worship, does it mean these people are being made objects of Godly worship. Obviously not. Note that the word "worship" is not used in many later translations.

Example 2-
Even in the Old Testament we see an example of an act that was mistakenly translated as "worship"....
Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshipped Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odours unto him.
-Daniel 2:46

Obviously, the act of falling on the face and paying honor has been mistranslated as "worship". Daniel understood that the king was not worshiping him the way God is to worshiped. Again the word "worship" is not used in later translations.

The word in Hebrew is "segid" and like its Greek equivalent can also mean an act of homage directed to humans.


3. One word, two meanings.
While the word can be used to mean homage and honor, as in between humans... it can also be used to mean "worship" in the highest sense... as in the kind which is to be directed towards God. So when one word can be interpreted in two different ways, it is important to be able to tell instances of Godly worship from an act of homage. We can consider these examples.

Example 1: When Jesus said only God must be worshiped (proskuneo) in reply to Satan when he asked to be worshiped. (Matthew 4:9-10). Jesus could not have received Godly worship from anybody, if he said only God is to be worshiped. Also, if Jesus was God, then the very idea that Satan would ask worship from his maker is preposterous.

Example 2 : When the angel tells John that he should worship (proskuneo) only God when John fell down to worship the angel.(Revelations 22:9)

Note that both the angel and Jesus have made it clear that only God is to be worshiped... that too in response to words/acts which involved worship being directed towards someone other than God. In Jesus' case it was Satan asking for worship... and in the angels case, a human was about to worship him. Both Jesus and the angel responded by saying only God is to be worshiped.

The angel and Jesus meant "worship" in the highest sense, not just an act of homage that can also be directed towards a man of a higher rank / status, as is the case with Jesus in verses where he is "worshiped".

Jesus could not have said only God is to be "worshiped" (proskuneo) AND at the same time, accepted Godly worship from his fellow men. So verses where Jesus received "worship" simply refers to an act of homage or honor, as the word "proskuneo" can be defined.... similar to what Daniel received from Nebuchadnezzar.

"Worship" in its truest, highest sense is reserved only for God.

edit on 22-2-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 01:51 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 





only God can be worshiped



What do you mean? People are worshiped....daily. Kings and Queens are worshiped.

If we look at today's picture...for instance, Lady Gaga has more of following than certain religions. She is certainly worshiped by many...is Gaga a God?



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 02:08 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


The statuses of ancient Egyptian kings were elevated to the level of god, so I don't see how one instance (Jesus) is somehow given precedence or viewed as more important. Even the vizier Imhotep was worshiped as a god after his death. It was common in ancient cultures for normal human beings to receive divine status as godlike figures, Jesus Christ is no exception.

Unless my definition of worship is different from yours, then I guess this won't apply...



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 02:16 AM
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Was Jesus worshiped as God?

Jesus IS in fact God...


God was made manifest in the flesh. 1 Timothy 3:16

Jesus is the member of the Godhead by which ALL things were created...


"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty." (Rev 1:8)

The alpha and omega are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet.

From an alphabet you make words, and Jesus Christ is called the "Word of God".

“Word” is capitalized indicating that it is being used as a NAME.

In Revelation 19, there are references that read, “His name is called The Word of God.”


"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" ~ John 1:1

ALL physical reality came into existence through Jesus...


...in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. ~ Heb. 1:2

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. ~ 1 Corinthians 8:6

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ ~ Ephesians 3:9

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. ~ Colossians 1:16-17



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 02:22 AM
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reply to post by Murgatroid
 



ALL physical reality came into existence through Jesus...

All the scripture you cited is from a man named Paul, who never once met Jesus.

Jesus was not worshiped as God... because he himself said only God has to be worshiped.



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 02:29 AM
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Originally posted by Murgatroid

Was Jesus worshiped as God?

Jesus IS in fact God...



Did you know that you 'were' also GOD?
edit on 22-2-2013 by dodol because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 02:37 AM
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reply to post by Murgatroid
 


If Jesus were alive today...doing what he does...healing the sick, walking on water etc, claiming to be the son of God.....he would be:

1. committed to a nearby assylum (straight jacket optional)
-just check the number "sons of God" currently residing in mental institutions.

2. his deeds pronounced a hoax

We have today people that walk on water...they are called magicians (Chris Angel for instance).

We have people that heal the sick by touch or even remotely. Don't know the english word for it. Bioenergy something.


So you see...the legend of Christ has sprung in the times when all these things were possible. People were uneducated, raw, barefoot and bare naked. Knowledge was scarce. It's like showing the kids a trick with a disappearing coin, and watch their amazed faces. They would interpret it as magic...but...it is only a trick.

Something to think about...



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 02:40 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


To worship something is to give reverence to it... or hold a deep resect for something...

Jesus was definitely worshiped as "a" God... So this really depends on who your God is...

It could be money (mammon?)

Or Gold... Perhaps the next American idol?

Christians worship him as God, which isn't a bad thing really... they give reverence to what Jesus believed and taught...the issue I see is that HE didn't say he was God... Period.

Now many will use Thomas to back that statement...

John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Yet I think that actually holds the key to who he really was.... Yes Thomas Called him "his God"... but Thomas was like anyone else... he was human, a doubter...

But...

Guess who used the term..."My God"

John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Mark 15:34
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Matthew 27:46
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?


Jesus was worshiped as "a" God...

But he had a God... which seems to be overlooked in the Christian world




posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 02:47 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 



Jesus was definitely worshiped as "a" God...


Going by the definition of the greek word for worship, "proskuneo" and considering how Jesus himself said to worship only God... we can deduce that the "worship" Jesus received was "homage"... the kind Daniel received from Nebuchadnezzar.



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 02:51 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 




Now many will use Thomas to back that statement...

John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Yet I think that actually holds the key to who he really was.... Yes Thomas Called him "his God"... but Thomas was like anyone else... he was human, a doubter...


Thomas only referred to Jesus and God. Does not necessarily imply that Jesus was God.

Not very different from the opening statement of James

1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 02:54 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Akragon
 



Jesus was definitely worshiped as "a" God...


Going by the definition of the greek word for worship, "proskuneo" and considering how Jesus himself said to worship only God... we can deduce that the "worship" Jesus received was "homage"... the kind Daniel received from Nebuchadnezzar.


Perhaps... but what do we know of Gods?

Two thousand years ago, IF a man from THIS time landed on earth in a spaceship, he would have been worshiped as God as well... Humans are not well versed in knowledge of spiritual entities... We're Disconnected from the spirit because life is one big distraction.

Im pretty sure theres a certain hierarchy in the spiritual world, and Jesus knew of his status in said world... all of which is "Of God"... which has knowledge of God, unlike the physical world.

There are many "Gods"... but you can have only one...

so they say...

edit on 22-2-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 02:57 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Akragon
 




Now many will use Thomas to back that statement...

John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Yet I think that actually holds the key to who he really was.... Yes Thomas Called him "his God"... but Thomas was like anyone else... he was human, a doubter...


Thomas only referred to Jesus and God. Does not necessarily imply that Jesus was God.

Not very different from the opening statement of James

1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ



Im not implying he was God... but they believed he was "God in the flesh"... or at least a few of the main personalities in Christianity did

As I've said there are many "lesser Gods" or spiritual beings much more advanced then us...

I think one of the biggest issues is that humans think they are the most advanced beings in all of creation aside from God and his angels...

I think that will be proven wrong one day soon...

And most of us are barely spiritual so that's obviously incorrect as well

edit on 22-2-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 03:05 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 



Im not implying he was God... but they believed he was "God in the flesh"... or at least a few of the main personalities in Christianity did


The word "worship" is also used for Daniel and the people in Revelations 3.
Were they gods too?
edit on 22-2-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 03:10 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Akragon
 



Im not implying he was God... but they believed he was "God in the flesh"... or at least a few of the main personalities in Christianity did


The word "worship" is also used for Daniel and the people in Revelations 3.
Were they gods too?
edit on 22-2-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)


Good point...

I was speaking in a spiritual sense though... men are worshiped all the time...

He did say "The Father is in me"...




posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 03:37 AM
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so god had himself sacrificed on a cross to open the gates of heaven to sinners by making himself upset that he was crucified on the cross he knew he was going to be stuck on.

Do you know how silly that is.

Then again, when you live in times when you nail people to a cross for stealing you can expect the occasional bloke saying

"Hang on you can't do that I'm the son of god!"
"I didn't know that. We'll crucify you anyway."
"God won't be happy about that."
"Oh I'm sure we'll cope.. Here you go, start banging your feet in would you?"
"*bang Bang* look *bang bang* I know it sounds far fetched *bang bang* but I really am..really.*
"*lifting cross up into pit* Right then. You just slowly die there, and we'll be over in this cave playing bingo. Don't be inconsiderate and take all day, if you wouldn't mind."
"Look Look - I knew this was going to happen, so .. you can take me down now. Guys?"
"Nice try.. Seeya."
*clunking roman armour heard fading away*



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 04:13 AM
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Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
If Jesus were alive today...doing what he does...healing the sick, walking on water etc, claiming to be the son of God.....

Something ELSE to think about.

Jesus IS alive today still doing what He could do ONLY if He were in fact God...

T.L. Osborne who is widely regarded as one one of the greatest evangelist's of modern times, has personally raised over 100 people from the dead in Africa during his many years in ministry.

T.L. Osborne describing some of the miracles he has seen:






posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 04:42 AM
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reply to post by Murgatroid
 


So T.L. Osbourne is Jesus ??

Or he is God...I'm not sure I understand the point you tried to make.

If he's the real deal, it only strengthens the argument. I've seen videos of African shamans levitating...even though they do not worship Jesus, must be than that their God is true and real.



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 05:03 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


To worship something is to give reverence to it... or hold a deep resect for something...

Jesus was definitely worshiped as "a" God... So this really depends on who your God is...

It could be money (mammon?)

Or Gold... Perhaps the next American idol?

Christians worship him as God, which isn't a bad thing really... they give reverence to what Jesus believed and taught...the issue I see is that HE didn't say he was God... Period.

Now many will use Thomas to back that statement...

John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Yet I think that actually holds the key to who he really was.... Yes Thomas Called him "his God"... but Thomas was like anyone else... he was human, a doubter...

But...

Guess who used the term..."My God"

John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Mark 15:34
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Matthew 27:46
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?


Jesus was worshiped as "a" God...

But he had a God... which seems to be overlooked in the Christian world


thats interesting, however the reply i get to that is that Jesus pbuh was manifesting his 'fully man' side. I would like to know what you think of that, maybe you get it better somehow because i dont see it as anything other than justification.



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 05:10 AM
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Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
If he's the real deal, it only strengthens the argument. I've seen videos of African shamans levitating...even though they do not worship Jesus, must be than that their God is true and real.

Their "God" is a master of disguises.

Wherever there is a counterfeit, there MUST also be a genuine as well.

Ian Clayton is one ex-sorcerer who has experienced BOTH sides of the "force".





"Ian Clayton, a New Zealand prophet and father of four, is a man who found himself seemingly chosen by the demonic realm to become a great occult leader.

At age 12, his growing awareness of God led him to the Bible and he started reading it from the beginning. Halfway through Deuteronomy he decided that it was full of rules and regulations and didn’t want anything to do with it. Just as he shut the Bible he heard a voice say, “Put your hand on top of the table and pick the table up.” Ian put his hand flat on the table top and it rose, sideways off the floor.

“It was an amazing power rush,” Ian explained. “Suddenly, I walked in power.”
Spirits started materializing at night and taught Ian how to do things such as astral travel and psychic healing, pendulum diagnosis, use of herbs in healing and in gaining power, and the power of demons in the spirit world. As the lessons continued, people grew frightened of Ian’s power. Many would talk about the headaches they got after being around him—headaches Ian attributes to the demonic resonance of the spirit force around his life. Meanwhile, signs and wonders manifested in Ian’s life much to his surprise and others’ shock.

“I would put my hand out and it would go into the wall—not up against it,” he said. By age 17, Ian was frightened of his own power and turned into an introvert attempting to shelter himself from others because of the phenomena that would occur.

According to Ian, the spirits taught him to become a psychic healer and he would lay hands on a body and take out the bits that were diseased. He could heal and he could kill with the same power that resided within him. “The moment I touched their flesh they submitted to the demon in my life. When I got angry at somebody I would release spirits and the people either were killed or became sick. At one point, my father got sick and my mother ended up in hospital because of my cursing them.”

Excerpt from Shifting Shadows of Supernatural Power

Ian Clayton Interviews www.youtube.com...



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 06:09 AM
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Here's my take on it.

Jesus was a man, a wise and mystical man, who understood the higher forms of philosophical and esoteric thought. He wasn't "God" anymore than the rest of us are. And all of us are equally "God" incarnate - as is everything on our planet, and in the universe.

The common men often called kings "gods" - as El said, "You are all gods, but will die as men" or some such thing - this comes from the ancient practice of human-ruler-worship (as described regarding the Egyptians above).

My understanding is that the Godhead is indescribable, invisible, yet all-pervasive and "tangible" in its creation.

I think VERY FEW people realize that the "Trinity" was just another attempt to illustrate the many facets of the Godhead's unspeakable-ness, its no-thingness. Therefore, worship is not to be directed at ANY person or thing, but reverence only to the inexplicable Source that defies definition and has no adequate expression by us. It's too big.

That said, Jesus was worshipped as God AFTER HE DIED and that is "idolatry." The Trinity is not to be understood literally, either. It's a metaphor for the emanations of the Godhead. God is not a person. We can't see, hear, touch, describe or understand the Godhead. All we can do is marvel at creation and wonder about it. The mystics know that, so did the philosophers, and so did Jesus. But most people don't have the brains or education to understand the concept, so the "leaders" came up with various "metaphors", but KNEW THAT ALL OF THEM were inadequate. It was an attempt to give some semblance of the mystery to the masses.





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