Veterans Are Forever Bound By Their Oath To Potect The Constitution

Legally - no, not all veterans are perpetually bound by their oath.

Also, it is necessary to understand the difference in the types of oaths.

There are two distinct oaths that service members take and they are legally different for a reason. The first is the oath of ENLISTMENT. It is taken by all members of the Army, Navy, Marines and Air force along with the reserve components of the same.

I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

National Guard and Air National Guard take the following oath.

I, __________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and the State of (STATE NAME) against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Governor of (STATE NAME) and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to law and regulations. So help me God.

You can see that the key portions of this oath involve the promise to "obey" the orders of the POTUS (and in some cases the Governor) and the Officers appointed over you.

The defend the constitution part is in there of course but it is followed by the obey clause for a reason. That is because orders are generally assumed to be legal according to the UCMJ unless you can prove otherwise. The Officer is not required to explain or justify his/her orders - the burden of proof for disobeying an order falls on the subordinate. You will be considered guilty of disobeying a lawful order if you do not follow them until you can prove that the order was unlawful.

Regarding the perpetuity of the oath, it is only binding for the term of service for enlisted personnel. Note that the term of service is not only the time you are on active duty or in the active reserve but while you are in the individual ready reserve. The total commitment is for 8 years in some combination. After that it is no longer binding unless you are still serving.

However, for Commissioned Officers that is not necessarily the case. There are two types of Commissions (three if you count State Commissions for NG). Reserve and Regular the oath of office is:

"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God."

In the Army it is a difference between being a member of the United States Army (Permanent standing Regular Army) or The Army of the United States (Reserve Forces). If one has a Commission in the United States Army it means that unless you resign or are dismissed for cause you will remain an Officer in perpetuity in the permanent rank of Second Lieutenant. Sure you get promoted but you can based on the needs of the Army be reduced to a lower grade but never anything below the rank of Second Lieutenant.

Even after you retire you are still technically an Officer in the United States Army subject to recall until the age of 65. I still can administer the oath of enlistment and am entitled to use my rank in correspondence.

Each year new Officers compete for the RA commissions because it means you will be the last to go if the Army has a Reduction in Force. Only West Point Cadets and the top 10% of the ROTC cadets receive a RA commission each year.

As for Reserve Officers they serve for a specific term usually 8 years just like enlisted folks. Most reserve Officers are offered a Regular Army Commission at the rank of Major.

You can see the difference in the oaths - Officers are not bound to "obey" the POTUS nor are they bound to "obey" the Officers appointed over them. They are expected to question the legality of their orders and do - every Commander (Field Grade or higher) has either a lawyer on his staff or unlimited access to one (at Company level).

In closing I just wanted to point out that the only permanent oath military members take is that taken when appointed as an Officer in the regular component of service.

In no way do I mean to imply that many individuals don’t consider their oath permanently binding but simply that by law specifically it is not.

Originally posted by usmc0311
reply to post by SPECULUM

 

I wouldn't say anything has collapsed yet. When and if the American people are physically engaged by the government we will stand tall with weapons ready to fight. Doing so now would only be detrimental to the overall cause due to the fact that the majority of the population is clueless to what's happening, or they just don't care enough because it has yet to affect them directly.

You villify us and even called us treasonous in another thread yet you are generalizing the whole due to the inaction of a few. Everyday I run into more veterans who are waking up and who are actively spreading the truth to others. If you think that you will just be able to sit back and let the veterans do the fighting for you then you are mistaken. As I said I actively work to spread the truth to others to strengthen our cause. So what is it that you are doing besides blaming others for not fighting for you?

I will say this again. As american citizens the fault lies with us all in reguards to the situation we currently find ourselves in. Therefore it is the responsibility of us all to fix this mess. Not just the veterans and other oathkeepers.

I took the same oath, but alone i would be vilified, it requires a louder voice that the sound cannot be silenced or drowned out and is the only way to change the direction of this country back to its original meaning.

I'm just as guilty as the rest who took the oath, i'm not hiding from what i haven't done, just acknowledging the fact

reply to post by Golf66
'
you took an Oath you pledged your allegiance, regardless

This sitting president is a tyrant and our allegiance belongs solely to the constitution and the people.....period

3 words for you: Screw the Constitution!

That is all. Have a nice day!

reply to post by david99118

I think many people are feeling this way, but the fact remains,its the only thing that stands between them and you, and without it we would all have been slaves and chances are you wouldn't have ever been born..or is that you are really trying to say?

reply to post by SPECULUM


I believe that is what I said - is it not?

I am a retired United States Army Officer (a Major in the Special Forces Branch) therefore my oath is perpetually binding as it is upon all Commissioned Officers who have not resigned or been dismissed. Upon retirement you are simply transferred from the active roster to the retired roster.

I simply took the time to explain to you that this is not the case with all individuals who take the oath; especially regarding the oath of ENLISTMENT.

The oath of OFFICE is what officers take. They are appointed until they formally resign or are formally dismissed for cause.

Individuals ENLIST for a set period and their oath is only binding for that time.

Hope that helps?

Originally posted by SPECULUM
reply to post by david99118

 

I think many people are feeling this way, but the fact remains,its the only thing that stands between them and you, and without it we would all have been slaves and chances are you wouldn't have ever been born..or is that you are really trying to say?

Nothing I said had anything to do with me not wanting to be born. If I wanted to say that I would have. I have no problem doing so. I fully admit to being a genetic freak and that my parents were too selfish to kill me the day I was born. I fully believer in eugenics and, as such, I have gotten a vasectomy to prevent me from passing on my defective DNA.

With that aside...

I highly doubt other people despise the constitution like I do. All I see a 200 year old document that people worship like it is some holy document. A document so holy that it can magically prevent various virtues written in it from being taken away. Well here’s a news flash, ITS A FREAKING PIECE OF PAPER! The ideas written in to it are protected by the power of those who believer in the ideas. Not by some 200 year old piece of toilet paper. If you like and want to keep the ideas, then fight. If all you want to do is keep pointing and saying "but the constitution says..." then just shut up and stop wasting your breath. The document is irrelevant. The ideas are what matters.

reply to post by david99118

The document is the binding reality along with the strength to wield it
it is a living document and cannot be infringed unless its been abandoned, which for the last 200 years its has not

Originally posted by Golf66
reply to post by SPECULUM

 

I believe that is what I said - is it not?

I am a retired United States Army Officer (a Major in the Special Forces Branch) therefore my oath is perpetually binding as it is upon all Commissioned Officers who have not resigned or been dismissed. Upon retirement you are simply transferred from the active roster to the retired roster.

I simply took the time to explain to you that this is not the case with all individuals who take the oath; especially regarding the oath of ENLISTMENT.

The oath of OFFICE is what officers take. They are appointed until they formally resign or are formally dismissed for cause.

Individuals ENLIST for a set period and their oath is only binding for that time.

Hope that helps?

an oath is an oath whether secret or top secret, whether enlisted or veteran.

try telling that to the brave men that died for their Constitution, oath and country

Originally posted by SPECULUM

an oath is an oath whether secret or top secret, whether enlisted or veteran.

try telling that to the brave men that died for their Constitution, oath and country

I understand you may feel that way, many others have felt the same - I am only giving you the legal interpretation.

I have held men in my arms as they died for their oaths, many of whom I counted as personal friends.

I do not mean to diminish their patriotism or question it only to explain that the oaths are different in their scope and duration. You are free of course to be contrary if you so choose.

Without regard to their personal sacrifice or heroism the facts remain the same. Sorry if that offends you in some way.

Originally posted by SPECULUM

Originally posted by usmc0311
reply to post by SPECULUM

 

I wouldn't say anything has collapsed yet. When and if the American people are physically engaged by the government we will stand tall with weapons ready to fight. Doing so now would only be detrimental to the overall cause due to the fact that the majority of the population is clueless to what's happening, or they just don't care enough because it has yet to affect them directly.

You villify us and even called us treasonous in another thread yet you are generalizing the whole due to the inaction of a few. Everyday I run into more veterans who are waking up and who are actively spreading the truth to others. If you think that you will just be able to sit back and let the veterans do the fighting for you then you are mistaken. As I said I actively work to spread the truth to others to strengthen our cause. So what is it that you are doing besides blaming others for not fighting for you?

I will say this again. As american citizens the fault lies with us all in reguards to the situation we currently find ourselves in. Therefore it is the responsibility of us all to fix this mess. Not just the veterans and other oathkeepers.

I took the same oath, but alone i would be vilified, it requires a louder voice that the sound cannot be silenced or drowned out and is the only way to change the direction of this country back to its original meaning.

I'm just as guilty as the rest who took the oath, i'm not hiding from what i haven't done, just acknowledging the fact

Ok then. I'm British and my wife's American, so that's why this kind of thing interests me. Please clarify what you mean by "change the direction of this country back to its original meaning"?

reply to post by AngryCymraeg

The one where none of our rights are being infringed upon
The one where the government hasn't ratified original terms to only benefit their agenda
The one where the government doesn't sneak behind the Constitution and use executive order to completely disregard the Constitution entirely
The one where we the people have no fear of the government because our government fully believes as the constitutional authors did in our freedom from tyranny and corruption and would do everything they could to protect it, instead of trying at every angle to destroy and remove it because of their sickness for global domination.

I know that your British, but even you should be able to understand and appreciate for all the reasons, especially if you live in Britain where you have no rights but to do what your government mandates to you as they have for hundreds of years by threat of destruction as they once did us

at least most of us still have our guns and minions to crush them at every turn if they attempt to go beyond the envelope with us, but what they should be doing is what our forefathers believed and entrusted to them

reply to post by SPECULUM


If you're annoyed about the Executive Orders thing then you need to have a go at the idiot Dubya, who abused them so extremely. I only have to mention his name to see my wife's blood pressure skyrocket.

I've taken that Oath. And part of it also included following the Commander and Chief without question.
So shall I only enforce what parts I want or just decide that Oath was only meant for my enlistment.

As a US citizen I have rights I will defend.

What about all the people who pledge allegiance to the flag every day? It is still an oath because one swears it!

So you see the irony of Obama not putting his hand over his heart or reciting the pledge of allegiance in public!

If there was ever a time when you really understood the Pledge of Allegiance and stated it in private or public - God heard you and will hold you to your promise!

reply to post by garygnu


Yes, of course he never puts his hand over his heart! Oh, wait.... that's BS. www.factcheck.org...

Retired Army General Colin Powell went on Live National TV and said he uses his retirement check to hire iLLgal immigrants to work on his house.

He admitted to a felony...violating his oath to his fellow countrymen......

Ain't no veteran or military upholding their oaths. They're all doing what's best for them and their financial selves.

Congress giving the President authority to use the military and kill Americans without a trial....
Congress giving the President authority to use the military and detain Americans forever without a trial....

All those 18 yr old boys are having fun killing and torturing Americans....they've all been brainwashed with the "boogeyman" PsyOps program that was so successful.

America no longer exists. If it DID...the military would have spoken out over Congress and what they did.

Originally posted by garygnu
What about all the people who pledge allegiance to the flag every day? It is still an oath because one swears it!

So you see the irony of Obama not putting his hand over his heart or reciting the pledge of allegiance in public!

If there was ever a time when you really understood the Pledge of Allegiance and stated it in private or public - God heard you and will hold you to your promise!

Obama is a hired usurper to do evil,but his arrogance will be his undoing and the real patriots of this country shall put and end to it once and for all

Washington Dc is a private corporate country of traitors that soon will get an enema.

Originally posted by Connman
I've taken that Oath. And part of it also included following the Commander and Chief without question.

No that part doesn't say without question it says that you must obey lawful orders and that you disobey them at your own peril as the system is set up to give a large degree of latitude to the person issuing them.

Originally posted by Connman
So shall I only enforce what parts I want or just decide that Oath was only meant for my enlistment.

No longer being subject to the UCMJ if you are no longer on active duty yes the oath is not legally binding any longer.

Originally posted by Connman
As a US citizen I have rights I will defend.

As well you should as should all Americans; you sound like someone who took his obligations seriously - commendable.

However, understand that you will do no good if you jump the gun and get locked up for sedition or treason. So my advice is to play it cool and only act in response to violence and not initiate it. That is my personal plan to remain off the radar skirting the line with preparations, recruiting and organization so that if a response is needed we won't all be sitting in a camp wishing we had been a little smarter and less hot headed.

As for officers and soldiers currently on active duty, I know many and understand especially in the Special Operations community many are watching the government from the inside and skirting the same lines - the best way to topple an organization is from the inside out.

Cheers.