Thats a good link.

Rumsfield is nothing more than a puppet like bush. Most of our whitehouse staff (if not all of them), are high paid figureheads with no real power. Acting a simple public speakers they only act out what they are told to rehearse. Ever see Rumsfield just avoid topics of simple dispute due to him not being briefed.

That article only strengthens my previous beliefs that another war is imminent and this time they may have gotten over thier heads!

in your opinion cassini, was he Dr Jeckil or Mr Hide on the Iraq case?

IMO, "I think his actions speak louder than any words but I`m sure some will wish to deny the mans a fool."

Originally posted by ADVISOR
Thats a good link.

Rumsfield is nothing more than a puppet like bush. Most of our whitehouse staff (if not all of them), are high paid figureheads with no real power. Acting a simple public speakers they only act out what they are told to rehearse. Ever see Rumsfield just avoid topics of simple dispute due to him not being briefed.

That article only strengthens my previous beliefs that another war is imminent and this time they may have gotten over thier heads!

U don´t know how right you are with these wise words...

Who is behind it all? I think that they are not figureheads. They just act like it. People say that Dubya is really quite smart. Then why does he talk like that? He likes to be underestimated. When people think that he is dumb, they are more likely to ignore him. Same goes for the rest of the administration.

XAOS

"Who is behind it all?"

No one, Just the greed that drives these men to want to make money without considering the moral, ethical and future problems that these actions cause.

Money is the root of all evil.

Its really criminal, VzH, its something thats been discussed on the board before. Unfortunately, some of the members feel he and others were justified in selling the weapons to Saddam.

I`m sure there are many other stories like this just waiting to be found out and that these are just the very tip of the iceberg.

I don`t see how a man like this can have a viable political career, and with men like this in charge is it any wonder so many Americans are convinced of a conspiracy?

Criminal? Hardly. Unfortunate? Certainly.

While at the same time some feel the need to warn that the U.S. is an evil monster and an international brute that needs a counter balance, they forget all of the history behind the last 70 years and merely pull out faded snapshots in the attempts to prove their position.

After the threats of then have been removed, you can now sit back and critcize. At one time, our leader as well as England's was pictured sitting around with Stalin as allies. For decades afterward we were engaged in a struggle against the Soviet Union, and the alleged hipocricy to which you point dates back to those times.

Why is it that if a man has a background in business as well as politics he cannot be trusted, but it only makes sense that an ignorant bozo off the street hasn't the experience or knowledge to conduct business?

There are so many contradictions and flaws in your basis for argument and so many omissions in your historical backing that this is not a viable position. It amounts to conjecture and superstition.

Sure TC, but Rummy's business has always been war. Men that make war their profession can never be classified as moral, trustworthy, upstanding folk. In war their living is made off of enemies and in peace it's made off creating enemies. While shaking hands with the devil is hardly criminal it is part of the double dealing that goes on in the war departments. I think the Stalin reference is just another example of how today's friend is tomorrow's enemy. Faded pictures aside we have only to look at Bin Laden to see the practice is still alive and well.

"While at the same time some feel the need to warn that the U.S. is an evil monster and an international brute that"

This is not what is being said here. This is not an attack on America and the people who live there. The actions of some of your leading politicians is disgusting, as is the case in most countries. This is the case here. I find it amazing you can call yourself christian and defend these people. They have clearly helped arm the countries they now seek destroy.

TC I did n`t expect any other reaction from you. You seem blinkered to the evil we all know our politicians carry out and I suspect you will always be.

like said before money is at the root of all evil

Originally posted by cassini
"While at the same time some feel the need to warn that the U.S. is an evil monster and an international brute that"

This is not what is being said here. This is not an attack on America and the people who live there. The actions of some of your leading politicians is disgusting, as is the case in most countries. This is the case here. I find it amazing you can call yourself christian and defend these people. They have clearly helped arm the countries they now seek destroy.

TC I did n`t expect any other reaction from you. You seem blinkered to the evil we all know our politicians carry out and I suspect you will always be.

LOL! Blinkered. I like that. You guys sound much better than we do!

You seem to misunderstand me, and by doing so, I suspect you'll always (just using your logic).

I do not doubt the lechery that your average politician is capable of achieving.
An ex-girlfriend's father never voted for a newcomer. His reasoning was why take someone who might be an honest man and most assuredly corrupt him.

This being as it most certainly is doesn't necessarily change what the perception of the facts of history indicate. Our support of Iraq was not out of agreement with Saddam, who at the beginning of our support hadn't yet proven himself to be totally nutzoid, but out of necessity did we climb into bed with him. The same reason we were "allies" with Stalin, a man that has gone down in history as being more evil and brutal than any other dictator, so that we could combat a more emminent and dangerous foe. There is no blinkery (blinkeredness, blinkiness...??? ) to this, just mere understanding of history, coupled with an understanding of what needs to be done now. I give approval of Bush and his administration because he is doing what I feel needs to be done, not the other way around.

As far as those in the defense industry, are you saying that the defense industry is inherently evil? If that be the case, then self protection is wrong? I disagree, and I disagree that those in the defense industry are evil monsters that try and pull strings so that there wares may be used up by there customers so that more is needed. Heck, I might be wrong and they are all evil demons, but I doubt that.

As far as you not understanding how I can be a Christian and understand history, well, what can I say?

Saph, Stalin was never our friend. Our leaders never entertained such thoughts. Sure, Gen Patton got in trouble for speaking his mind on the Russians, but that was because of diplomatic reasons, not because his was wrong!

"You seem to misunderstand me, and by doing so, I suspect you'll always (just using your logic)."

Thats true and I have in the past but the beauty of the board is you can always explain yourself again in a clearer way as you usually do. Your words here however speak clearly to me.

"LOL! Blinkered. I like that. You guys sound much better than we do!"

Glad you like it.

Your contentions on my understanding of the history of the situation are incorrect.

Please do not bother to reply as I have no wish to argue against someone so set in their views. As others clearly seem to agree with the reason for posting the thread, I will not consider it a complete waste.

Okeedokey, then. I won't reply to this. It is obvious that I am unlike you as you clearly display a desire to learn other views and change you way of thinking. I apologize for not being as maleable as you.

Yup, I'm not going to respond, and nobody can make me!
Here I am, just sitting here, no responding, keeping my mouth closed!

I'll respond then.

I think your comparison with Stalin and Churchill etc. is a bit silly, to be totally honest. We were fighting Hitler, an evil little man who wanted to control the world. We were on the same side out of necessity, we needed Stalin to work with us, if he'd switched sides to the Germans we would have lost the war.

Hussein and Rumsfield is just a totally different league. Selling weapons to one country (chemical weapons capabilities, biological weapons capabilities aswell), continuing support for Hussein even after he'd used these chemical weapons against civilian population centers, also passing satellite maps of Iranian troop positions, and also passing important information to the Iranians once it looked like Iraq might win. There was simply no clearcut greater evil involved here. It was just a case of the US making money, and attempting to increase their influence in the middle east.

Rumsfield is a fruit and nut case. He's shown time and again that he can't be trusted to talk sense, and that he's a liability when it comes to foreign policy. He's also shown time and again that he thinks anything he does is correct, even if it's inconsistent with previous policy decisions, and that he won't apologise for anything. Rumsfield is a dangerous man to be put in control of a car, let alone the most powerful military in the world...