I guess I'm crazy BUT...

The phrase "too many takers, not enough makers."

That is a very common phrase around here. The sad reality is that the phrase isn't even targeted at only those who do not work but also those who work for very low wages, often times because they have no other choice. Many ATS members view the people who work at these "unskilled" jobs as beneath them. It's funny because I would be very happy to put every dime I have on a bet toward the fact that the majority of people who have such an opinion would be in the very same shoes if they had lived 100 years ago. Lets face it, most of us would be killing ourselves in another man's factory for 12+ hours a day, 6+ days a week, with nothing to show for it.

So... In an economy where few are lucky enough to be earning more than $50k a year. Why is it that those of us who do not earn that much are constantly berated and ridiculed as if we're here because we want to be?

Working for someone else isn't a get rich quick scheme. If you're lucky you will be able to "earn" enough to "survive" on. So why don't you just start your own business? Then you can "make your own pay."

Ever hear the phrase it takes money to make money? Well if you're "earning" over $50,000 a year then I surely hope you're old enough to have heard it. While some people, be they very few, have been lucky enough to turn very little into something, that simply is not the case in the real world. It's kind of like what you might consider a 1 in a million kind of thing. It does happen rarely BUT most likely will not happen to you. While it's very true that you'll be much more likely to succeed if you're smart and witty, turning "nothing into something" often has much more to do with luck than intellect. Most business require some kind of financial support when being started. Whether we like it or not, that's reality.

How is it that myself or John down the street are going to be able to start any business if we're hardly being paid enough to "survive?" You can't save the money you don't have, no matter how much you would love to.

My brother just got lucky and got hired on as full time at one of the bigger named factories in the area. He claims to work over 12 hours a day most days and usually 6 days a week with he option to go in on Sundays. He is being paid $9 an hour with no benefits. How do you raise a family of 4 with that? I don't know but he's trying to do it.

Now if this is what the better paying jobs in your area are paying then how can you be expected to save anything? I mean Wal Mart is always an option but they pay even less... Oh and don't scream about relocating because if any of you have children then you know very well that you can't just up and move without enough money to do so.

Now I know that many ATSers are retired and enjoyed a work life in the 80s and 90s when the economy ( job wise at least ) was probably a lot better than it is today... And many of those people think that people who drive about an hour to work, another hour home, work 12+ hours a day and at least 6 days a week for around $9 an hour are mostly just lazy kids whining about how hard life is BUT... Those people are just as out of touch with reality as the politicians are.

There's just so much hate towards those of us who are getting the shaft and I don't understand why. Especially concerning us 20 somethings. I know that times are hard and all of that but why throw the blame to us younger people who didn't ask for any of this and certainly didn't do much to contribute to it as we are literally just now entering the workforce? That's almost all I see here on ATS.

Some of you people might be old... BUT some of you really need to grow up.

We're all in the same damn sinking ship! It's not upper class vs middle class vs lower class. There is no middle class. It's simply upper class vs lower class and you're either upper class or lower class and something is telling me that most of you probably aren't upper class. That's how they see it and that's how all of us need to start seeing it or things are only going to get worse for all of us. This division crap is pointless and it isn't helping you or I. So why try so hard to fight amongst ourselves when there's a very clear enemy?

Are there some lazy poor people? Certainly! However, they aren't the real problem and most of the "poor" aren't anywhere near as lazy or worthless as many of the ATS community would like to believe.

Is it really so bad to come together as a country when we have a common oppressor?

One thing I learned is that this world owes you or I nothing. I'm 26 years old a custodian and I make 33xxx a year. And I live san diego. I don't feel bad for people who don't want to go that extra mile to put money int heir pockets. I hustle my ass off and flip cars. I see people my age and they are the laziest people. Its gross. There are so many ways to flip a buck and if you don't know how then that's your fault. You can me ignorant but I talk about what I've experienced and what I see. Its called get up and do something about if your not happy. And another thing if you have kids before your financially stable then that's your fault for not wrapping it up and using a condom. Life is not hard to live its just about taking resposibilities for your actions. Man up

Originally posted by solizer
One thing I learned is that this world owes you or I nothing. I'm 26 years old a custodian and I make 33xxx a year. And I live san diego. I don't feel bad for people who don't want to go that extra mile to put money int heir pockets. I hustle my ass off and flip cars. I see people my age and they are the laziest people. Its gross. There are so many ways to flip a buck and if you don't know how then that's your fault. You can me ignorant but I talk about what I've experienced and what I see. Its called get up and do something about if your not happy. And another thing if you have kids before your financially stable then that's your fault for not wrapping it up and using a condom. Life is not hard to live its just about taking resposibilities for your actions. Man up

edit on 22-2-2013 by solizer because: (no reason given)

" I see people my age and they are the laziest people. Its gross."

I dispute this statement.

I think it is in reality just the fact that it's human nature, people like to think of themselves as better than others, it's just the way it is. That and a whole lot of people just can't grasp onto the concept that it is in reality the 1-2% against the 98-99%. The end game is global domination and depopulation with the masses living as paupers to the rich elite. Just my take on it all, simply put the prevailing attitude these days is that you are not meant to rise above it all and become successful. Nobody should have to work 60+ hours a week to get ahead and in the process drive themselves to an early grave, but that is the sad reality of the real truth of things these days. There are people that don't want anyone but themselves passing on thier genes to the next generation.

Edit: Some people just won't "get it" until they see themselves being squeezed to the point of living a life that is eerily similar to those of the people they so despise.

reply to post by cartesia


Okay let me take that back, Not all people my age are lazy but honestly most are. Oh and the same people that are without jobs are still the same people that have the newest iphones. And i know im not the only one whose seen that.

reply to post by solizer


I haven't, maybe it's a regional thing. Most unemployed people i know either have a basic pay as you go thing, or no phone at all.

reply to post by solizer


You're a custodian. You make over $33k a year. Okay... I'm not going to put down your job because you are working and any work is hard to get in this economy and I generally don't like people who put down others or see them as below them just because they have a different job. BUT around here where I live, a very well trained and experienced custodian would be lucky to see half of what you make. If they don't live with mommy and daddy then they ain't "flippin" much with that kind of money.

However, just to be fair here, I will try to see things from what seems to be your perspective... IF you're a 26 year old custodian as you claim to be then I truly can't see how you have any right to call others lazy. Shouldn't you have had plenty of time to learn a trade or skill that would allow you to have a career with much better pay?

The thing is, it shouldn't be about arguing and bickering amongst each other and it shouldn't be about making excuses to allow ourselves to foolishly believe that we are somehow better than our fellow citizens. That is exactly what they want!

Some people are harder workers than others, yes. And I would agree that those who put more effort in should see more reward. However, many people seem to be naive enough to believe that most people who work for low wages are there because they are lazy, the want to be, and they "deserve" it. As someone who is not out of touch with reality, I can confirm that such is not the case.

Hell, most recipients of "government assistance" work and only need it because the cooperation of government and big business has made it so that those people would be unable to survive without such things. No job should pay so little that the worker can't afford to survive.

I'm not saying that there aren't a lot of lazy people. There's an abundance of those from every social class. What I am saying is that "most" low wage workers aren't any lazier than any other worker, Fox news just likes to point fingers because their "owners" want you to believe that the poor are your enemy when in reality the "owners" of those who brainwash people with such nonsense are the enemy. AND, if you're not ultra wealthy than whether you like it or not, you ARE the "poor." And no, I am not picking on Fox news, CNN is equally as terrible in my opinion.

you are not crazy

we the people have been divided along many lines, but one of the BIGGEST problems we 98 percent have is in CHOOSING TO ADMIT that we are in the WORKING CLASS.

I dont know why the average american wont admit this... EVERYONE i know would call themselves upper middle class. empty label designed to assuage...

what exactly is a middle class? its an illusion adhered to by a certain set of workers that are happy enough with the bargain they have been offered by their masters..

BY THEIR MASTERS!!!

every member of the so called middle class CAN BE FIRED. bam instant poverty. because you, if you are a worker dependant upon your paycheck, are not your own financial master, rather, you have access to resources BECAUSE YOU PLEASE A SOCIAL SUPERIOR...

you can always get another job... i mean find another superior to please.... because in the working class, working FOR OUR MASTERS (one way or another) is the only choice that we are suppossed to have.

for example, my pal Rog told me 2 years ago that due to the fact that he finally crossed 100k that year, he HAD to vote republican, because they were the party that was going to LOOK OUT FOR RICH GUYS LIKE HIM..

i had to go to another room to laugh to avoid insulting my pal, his 100k is nice fo sho, buit RICH? NOW HES A RICH GUY?

he has to go to work to get that 100k, that means hes in the WORKING CLASS, and of course his masters could reduce his pay if they saw fit..
(actually they did, he was "earning too much" in sales and told to move to management or be fired, Rog is now with a dif company in a dif industry at a much reduced wage... still votes Republican tho, they're good for "rich guys" like him.)

the first thing we need to admit is THAT WE ARE ALL US.

all working americans are on the same team. this will help us correct our focus. rather than bickering among ourselves about whose slice of the worker pie is a better slice... WE COULD BAND TOGETHER AND DICTATE THE TERMS OF OUR PIE PANTRY..

i think that america needs a political party THAT IS ALSO A WORKERS UNION, a cross industry union of AMERICAN workers, that also sends candidates up to DC, and to local and state governments...

this way, when a company says hey, lets fire all of our US staff, make our product abroad for 1 tenth of the cost by oppressing foreign poor without the protection of american law, and then sell the goods in the US for the same old price...

well then OUR politicians could offer them attractive tarrif terms and keep those jobs at home.

WE MUST ORGANIZE

and i must log out to go to work

that is not a bad joke either, just the truth and a fitting end to this edited post

Success isn't always a straight line, sometimes you have to go on a few side roads to get to your destination. I've watched my husband struggle at the beginning of our relationship, so I think I have an insiders view of what it means to work 80 hours a week to survive. It takes some people a lot longer to develop their skills, or even find out what they want to do with their lives. My grandfather always worked very hard, in fact he's one of the most hardworking guys I've ever known. He was a mayor, a trucker, an evangelist, a preacher, an engineer, and even took part in the Korean war. One time when we were struggling with our finances, and were worrying he told me, "You have to realize that I worked my whole life to give my children all the things they didn't need, and when they grew up I realized that all they wanted from me was time." Unfortunately society tells parents you aren't doing a good job unless your children have designer clothes and all the latest electronic devices.

I am 53 years old and lived out of the country for the past 15 years. I moved here in January 2012 and rode a bus to West Texas. The day that I arrived, I got a job on a fracking crew as an oiler. An oiler is the bottom of the barrel and the starting salary was $130K/year plus benefits. I slept in a pickup truck with a co-worker for a month until I had enough money to send for my family. I swung a 16lb sledge hammer for 5 hours a day and often worked 120 to 130 hours per week. I advanced to a hydration operator, chem-ad operator, blender tender and am now a data van operator and now make over $150K/year. I have a degree but have never considered any sort of work beneath me. I do not know your age or physical condition but I am no spring chicken. I work very hard and this sort of work is not for everyone. There are 35 fracking companies in the Permian Basin and all of them are hiring. I do not know what is fair in this life. I have struggled myself through very hard times. I refuse to place any work above or below me and am willing to take chances. I can not continue to comment on this thread as I must get back to work. The is a lot of money to be made in the Dakotas, West and South Texas. There is no unemployment here. Walmart pays $16/hr. My wife works at Dillards and makes $18/hr plus commissions. I knew no one when I came here. Good luck with your choices in life. The American way has always been to go where there is opportunity and not to sit and wait for opportunity to find you. Peace.

How is it that myself or John down the street are going to be able to start any business if we're hardly being paid enough to "survive?" You can't save the money you don't have, no matter how much you would love to.

I started my own computer/networking consulting business, and I was making less than $20k a year. The biggest reason why people don’t have money is because “PEOPLE DON’T KNOW HOW TO LIVE TO THEIR MEANS”!

PEOPLE spend money they don’t have, put themselves in debt, and dig themselves into a hole! There is a difference in NEEDING something, than WANTING something!

What kind of home, car(s), TV, close, toys, etc. etc. etc., do you have? Is it stuff YOU really NEED?

Be honest..!

Originally posted by Darkphoenix77
I think it is in reality just the fact that it's human nature, people like to think of themselves as better than others, it's just the way it is. That and a whole lot of people just can't grasp onto the concept that it is in reality the 1-2% against the 98-99%. The end game is global domination and depopulation with the masses living as paupers to the rich elite. Just my take on it all, simply put the prevailing attitude these days is that you are not meant to rise above it all and become successful. Nobody should have to work 60+ hours a week to get ahead and in the process drive themselves to an early grave, but that is the sad reality of the real truth of things these days. There are people that don't want anyone but themselves passing on thier genes to the next generation.

Edit: Some people just won't "get it" until they see themselves being squeezed to the point of living a life that is eerily similar to those of the people they so despise.

edit on 22-2-2013 by Darkphoenix77 because: edit

edit on 23-2-2013 by Darkphoenix77 because: typo

There are people that don't want anyone but themselves passing on thier genes to the next generation.

…..And as long as we have our “Gun Free Zone” signs to eliminate that option, it’s all good…!!

reply to post by Propulsion


I live in some very cheap apartments in my city. They also give free housing to people here but we pay rent based on what they say we can afford. I'm not going to complain about having to pay rent but I will say that if I did the drugs the people around here do... I would be in jail and not living rent free in a hell hole. Roaches live in the walls, but I grew up use to that so it really doesn't bother me to kill bugs when I see them. Pretty much all of the neighbors here are the Jerry Springer type and they feel like you NEED to know their business. The constant arguments really don't have to be so loud... They know we go to college and they act very weird towards my wife and I but who cares, it's not like we want to socialize with most of them anyway.

My family owns a wrecked 98 Ford Escort ZX2 that we paid $2000 cash for when we bought it. A truck hit me but the cops labeled as both of our faults and I can't afford insurance that covers me as well so we're driving it on a donut tire because the regular tire can't go on til we can afford to get it fixed, something where the tire goes on is bent and to say that it would rub is a massive understatement. It's crooked but drivable with he donut tire so...

Yep. We're livin' the high life! All of this stuff I just don't need...

Edit: I should be fair... The Mexicans who live here really aren't that bad. They're quiet enough and keep to themselves and don't try to bother other people and usually aren't too loud. And I know that most of them actually have jobs and also pay rent... It's the white and black people who are the problem neighbors.


2nd edit: Not that I should owe you any explanation of my life but since you asked for honesty. I guess I could cut back a little and tell the kids that the reason we're "camping" behind the dumpster is because we ain't American enough for everyone else.

reply to post by Anundeniabletruth


Trust me man you can't put me down. I know what my job title is but fortnately for me I don't care what people think its just a title and it puts money in my pocket. Also I don't live at home with my mom and dad, I've been on my own since I was 21. And yes I tried the trade school stuff but to me it was a waste of time. As I said I know how to flip a dollar, which has been working out pretty damn well. There is no doubt in my mind ill have at least 20 grand that ill make from flipping cars. I'm already a quarter of a way there and I've been doing it for less than a year. The difference between me and people my age is that I'm a go getter. I work hard play later. I have zero compassion for people that have no jobs. I see job openening at a lot of places people just don't want to make minimum wage because unlike me a custodian, they care what people think of them. And the only thing you did in you comment was a lot of assumption, you jumped the gun. the world is my playground and I'm making the right moves to live the luxious life in world that's so poor. Its hard man, just not enough people that want to take advantage of certain situations. Oh and did I mention I get full benefits paid vacation, paid holidays, paid sick leaves, an awesome 401k. No shame in my custodian game. I only look down on those who deserve it and if this custodian can make money and lots of it than so can others. School did not teach me life skills I did.

Oh and as for the government assistance I'm all for it. If the government can take advantage of us the people then there is no reason why the people can't take advantage themeselves.

Originally posted by solizer
One thing I learned is that this world owes you or I nothing. I'm 26 years old a custodian and I make 33xxx a year. And I live san diego. I don't feel bad for people who don't want to go that extra mile to put money int heir pockets. I hustle my ass off and flip cars. I see people my age and they are the laziest people. Its gross. There are so many ways to flip a buck and if you don't know how then that's your fault. You can me ignorant but I talk about what I've experienced and what I see. Its called get up and do something about if your not happy. And another thing if you have kids before your financially stable then that's your fault for not wrapping it up and using a condom. Life is not hard to live its just about taking resposibilities for your actions. Man up

edit on 22-2-2013 by solizer because: (no reason given)

Arrogant much?

You are exactly what this OP is talking about. You see everyone else as beneath you because they aren't doing what you are doing. Not everyone has the ability to "flip" cars or to make extra money on the side. It does depend on your surroundings, experience, skill and where you live. In some areas making an extra buck just isn't possible!

Also putting people down for having kids who have come on hard times is just rude and shows your immaturity and lack of compassion. You do know that many people have lost everything right? This includes the means to support their family so I wouldn't go judging people on having kids and not taking care of them, you have no idea their circumstances.

I have worked any job I could get and worked in an environment for yrs that i HATED and I had to leave because it was making me someone I wasn't. I barely made any money but i worked 14hrs on some days, most of the week and had nothing to show by the end of the week. It is easy to say what you say when you aren't in another persons shoes. You are in friggin San Diego ffs I think there is more side work opportunity there than some tiny town in Kansas.

I really get annoyed at people who feel the need to preach on those who aren't working or doing what YOU think they should be doing. You don't know that persons situation so how can you judge them?

reply to post by solizer


I'm not trying to put you down man...

I've been saying all along that we should all just get along, no matter what "job" the other person has. I'm a self employed college student. I barely make over minimum wage BUT it beats working for someone else for minimum wage. If you're a "go getter" then I suppose that would make me one as well, seeing as how I have been doing this kind of thing since I was about 11. I don't do it with vehicles because I don't know enough about them, my area of expertise is electronic devises. The problem is that there has to be a market for whatever it is that you do, with your used cars there will always be a market for that. Other things aren't as "needed" and therefore wont turn as big a profit. For me it was either go to some kind of school or NEVER have enough money to turn anything into much more than minimum wage.

Originally posted by Anundeniabletruth
reply to post by solizer

 

I'm not trying to put you down man...

I've been saying all along that we should all just get along, no matter what "job" the other person has. I'm a self employed college student. I barely make over minimum wage BUT it beats working for someone else for minimum wage. If you're a "go getter" then I suppose that would make me one as well, seeing as how I have been doing this kind of thing since I was about 11. I don't do it with vehicles because I don't know enough about them, my area of expertise is electronic devises. The problem is that there has to be a market for whatever it is that you do, with your used cars there will always be a market for that. Other things aren't as "needed" and therefore wont turn as big a profit. For me it was either go to some kind of school or NEVER have enough money to turn anything into much more than minimum wage.

The fact that you wrote in a comment earlier about not putting my job title down your actually putting my job down. And to the person that called me arrogant, that's far from the truth. I have nothing but compassion for the less fortunate. I'm that guy that will give a homeless man 5 dollar bill. I spread the money that I do have around. But I don't have compassion for people that are able to get up and do something and don't. That's where I have a I have a problem. There's a huge difference.

reply to post by solizer


No...

The fact that you want me to be putting down your job does not mean that I am. I have friends and family who work jobs for minimum wage because there isn't anything else available. If you're working at least you're making an effort and not trying to live off those of us who are willing to do something, unlike a portion of my neighbors. My original rant was much about people putting down others because of their "job" or income level...

Bragging about giving someone $5 doesn't make you compassionate. If you were truly as compassionate as you claim to be you wouldn't feel the need to brag about giving homeless people money. You would just do it because you feel like it's the right thing to do and wouldn't care who knew that you did it. Bragging about it makes someone come off as if they expect something in return. And $5 ain't much to brag about my friend...

To me, it seems as if you have "compassion" for those you know who make below you but you see everyone else as filthy lazy scumbags. Your method of writing is what leads me to such a belief. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you're trying to say... BUT the way you are saying it just doesn't seem as "compassionate" as you would claim to be.

You make a lot of assumptions about those who you do not know. As another poster said, you have done so here about the children comment. That negative comment that you made sure sounds an awful lot like something a self titled "compassionate person" would say...

Just because you can make assumptions does not mean that you know everything and everyone's situation. If you're only hear to argue and be a jerk please leave the conversation. My original rant was complaining about pretty much just what you are attempting to turn this into... People being manipulated to care about arguing with and amongst each other more than anything else, when we all have a common oppressor that we should focus such attention on.

Firstoff I was not bragging about the 5 bucks the last thing I need is approval from people I don't even know especially on a forums. With that said just like you I'm entitled to my own opinion. And the kid comments I made was arrogant but its true that people need to take resposibility for their actions and having a kid while not financialy stable is irresponsible. If your man enough to make a kid you should be man enough to take care of it.

Isn't it a bit childish to question other people's parenting when you have zero knowledge of their situation? Such an attitude leads me to the assumption ( a word you seem to be very familiar with ) that you are either a teenager or someone who is very out of touch with reality. Either way... I'm not going to continue wasting my time feeding a troll. Have a good day sir.