What if Our Sun was part of a Binary Solar System?

We are actually in a ternary system with Sirius. The only real link we see of it is the planet Tyche that orbits both systems in a figure eight and comes around every 26k years or so and brings death and destruction!

reply to post by Templeton


So Tyche, a planet that is merely hypothetical at this point, is traveling a third the speed of light, which is significantly faster than any known celestial object, so it can orbit two solar systems over 8 light years apart that are somehow the same solar system? There's so much ignorance of astronomy in this post I don't even know how to begin? Even if Tyche exists it's hypothesizers (that's now a word) say it's in a stable, circular orbit 15K AU out. That's only about a quarter of a light year. How can it orbit something over 8 light years away?

I could echo others and say that the lack of knowledge in astronomy in this thread is appalling, especially when people make very wild claims, such as our sun orbiting Sirius ( or any other star for that mater).

Instead I'll simply say this:

1) You don't have to believe any text books and data that has been gathered over literally CENTURIES by many, many people. Instead, you can go out and get your own equipment and do your very own observations and data recording, in which you will find the following:

2) Our sun, and other stars follow the laws of gravitation and our planets in our solar system follow Kepler's laws of planetary motion. Don't believe it or think it's wrong, or that it is lies? Fine. Then you need to replace it, and explain how we've been using these well known physical laws for many decades now to not only put satellites in orbit, but probes around other planets, and men on the moon.

3) It's impossible for the sun to orbit Sirius.......our motion through the galaxy (which can be measured by even the people in this thread) would exceed the escape velocity very easily...especially at 8 light years away.
It is also impossible given that the age of Sirius is only 200 to 300 million years old......in other words, our 4.5 BILLION year old sun has been around a LOT longer than Sirius.

4) The motion of the stars would show very well if our sun was indeed orbiting something.....and guess what? They DO show we are orbiting something......and do you know what they show?

they show we are orbiting the center of the Milky Way Galaxy.

5) No, our sun is NOT orbiting the Pleiades either, for the exact same reason as we are not orbiting Sirius......the Pleiades is only 115 million years old too.

Now, I do know that a lot of people out there want to flip this (IE Sirius or the Pleiades is orbiting our sun.....this was covered back before 21 Dec, 2012 in many threads). The answer is NO. Sorry.

Why?

Why for the same reason that our sun is not orbiting them: escape velocity. Both of those systems are traveling much too fast to be in an orbit around us. As a mater of fact, Sirius is actually traveling towards us.

Does this mean that there is nothing else orbiting our sun?

Well the data does not support it so far. The WISE data was put out back in March 2012, and so far John Matese and Daniel Whitmire have found: NOTHING.

Does that mean there is nothing out there? Well it certainly means that there is nothing that is huge, very dense and giving of a lot of heat. That would be like a spot light to WISE. But there were no spot lights.

Will we find something out there? Possible. But it may be something very insignificant.

As several have said on this thread: science can be wrong. And you are all right...science can be wrong. And it can be wrong about the orbits of dwarf planet kuiper belt objects having problems with their orbits too.

Could be when New Horizons gets done with it's Pluto flyby in 2015 and heads out to the kuiper belt, we'll learn something that will change how we plot the orbits of those objects.......and will put all that to rest.

Or we may learn something that does support something lurking out there.

But keep in mind...if it is, it's orbiting us, not the other way around....and no, sorry......we do not orbit another visible star. Keep wishing, but it's not going to change the physics and math I'm afraid.

How far out is Voyager at the moment past Pluto? It surely getting close to the Oort Cloud or this Kuiper belt wouldnt it?

Last I heard it was still sending data. Hopefully it comes across something to help assist in this theory.

Edit:

Where is Voyager now?

The dynamic duo have spent the last five years exploring the outer layers of the heliosphere, according to NASA.

“The question is, how much further is it to the heliopause?” Stone asked during a lecture at the (JPL) headquarters in Pasadena, California. “We don’t know whether we’re dancing along the edge of a new region which is connected to the outside,” or if we are still billions of miles away.

Once Voyager does cross over, Stone said it will measure the strength and direction of the magnetic field that’s pressing against the outside of the heliosphere. And will also be able to take “quality measurements” of the cosmic rays, including the ionized rays that are unable to penetrate into our solar system.

If Voyager can measure magentic fields out this far, surely it could recognize if there was any interference from any external objects exerting their magnetic influence upon the solar system?

reply to post by eriktheawful


We can barely break the boundaries of our own Solar System yet we are certain that our Sun is orbiting the Black hole at the centre of the Galaxy? How the hell does that work?

reply to post by eriktheawful



Oh this was a sirius thread? (Hahah, I had to) Jeez I figured all the buzz words would have conveyed the sarcasm. I should have known better..sarcasm on the internet psh! Anyhow like you said this has been discussed sooo many times. I am suprised this thread is still up. But let's keep going. I need more posts to get into chat.

I see the misunderstanding now. We are not 'orbiting' Sirius in the gravitational sense. We are paired electrically. We can never break free from this lock no matter how fast we move or how fast we spin, I'm afraid. The Destroyer does orbit in the traditional gravitational sense though. And it is about due for another round of death and destruction!

Originally posted by Flyingclaydisk
Trust me, if our sun was gravitationally influenced by any other 'nearby' massive object we'd know about it!

Though our solar system does move (albeit very gradually) around the solar system, it is for the most part stationary relatively speaking. If our sun were in a binary orbit with another object it would have a significant impact on how we view the rest of the universe. The reason for this is the localized motion of our sun (while orbiting this other object) would radically change the relative position of the stars we observe from earth on a regular basis. It would also bend the light coming from other stars and change their relative position from our perspective.

Believe me, we'd know.

edit on 2/21/2013 by Flyingclaydisk because: syntax

Excuse me, but doesn't our perspective of the stars change across millenia?

The sky was very different 20000 years ago...

reply to post by clairvoyantrose


Yes we do orbit another star....2 other stars actually. The sun orbits Procyon and Procyon orbits Sirius. Being a mason I can tell you the star in those masonic images you posted is definitely Sirius.Look it up....nasa freely admits this.

Originally posted by DarknStormy
reply to post by eriktheawful

 

We can barely break the boundaries of our own Solar System yet we are certain that our Sun is orbiting the Black hole at the centre of the Galaxy? How the hell does that work?

Science? Gravity? Oh come on! Either I didn't get the gist of your question in its fullest or you are just ignorant against most of astronomy, the science behind it and its known laws, which describe the motion of celestial bodies in great detail.

This thread makes me wonder how the many, many successful spaceflights of NASA were achieved!

"Hey, uhm, I'm bored with shooting at the moon with my guns, how about we shoot a large rocket at dat thing?!"
"Yeah, lets do it! Aim for the bright light, but not the very, very bright light, just the bright light with de face on it! Don't miss, or you go bye--bye!"
"Yeah, mission control, we hit that thing! TOUCHDOWN! Take that, russkies!"

Seriously, I KNOW that the engineers and scientists at NASA are very, very capable of their job. I just have to wonder if they were "aliens", trying to get some of them back in space.. Because they can't come from the scientific background of the USA we experience here in the forums again and again!

In addition to the other scientists that think the sun is a binary star posted on page 2, NASA has suggested this is also likely.

Listen from 2.20


WISE expects to have more analysis for mid 2013.

www.astrobio.net...

We may not have an answer to the Nemesis question until mid-2013. WISE needs to scan the sky twice in order to generate the time-lapsed images astronomers use to detect objects in the outer solar system. The change in location of an object between the time of the first scan and the second tells astronomers about the object’s location and orbit. Then comes the long task of analyzing the data.

If you actually read many of those theories about a binary you would
see they have been revised and that they come with a disclaimer
that clearly stated they could well be wrong, also logically they defeat
their own theory by stating their very own model showed that one
of the more massive planets got pitched out of the solar system
in 50% of the models they ran with a massive companion be it star
or planet. This being a reoccurring event every 30 or so million years
would more than likely end up with us being unlucky one of the many
many times this would have traveled through our solar system over
the 4.5 billion years since it has been around and losing one of those
larger planets.

Also the effect would be accumulative, every time it raged through it
would throw everything even more out of whack i would think...
i dunno it just logically doesn't seem possible to me.

As all of our massive planets are still there and in relatively "normal"
orbits then id say this one could be labeled very very unlikely. I think
there would be very obvious signs of something so massive.

Originally posted by clairvoyantrose
reply to post by Kr0nZ

 

The milky way is a part of the system that is orbiting around the dwarf companion star.

Sorry, but that makes no sense at all. Galaxies do not orbit around stars. Not unless it's a really huge star and a really teeny tiny galaxy.

Originally posted by ManFromEurope
Seriously, I KNOW that the engineers and scientists at NASA are very, very capable of their job. I just have to wonder if they were "aliens", trying to get some of them back in space

So was this en.wikipedia.org...!_Edo_Rocket really a documentary?

reply to post by theabsolutetruth


Your news link is a few years old.

Both the Hydrogen Cooling and funding itself for WISE ran out back in Oct. 2010. WISE was continued for NEOs for a while.

The only way that WISE could perform another sky survey is if someone goes up and replaces that Hydrogen cooling.

Originally posted by DarknStormy
reply to post by eriktheawful

 

We can barely break the boundaries of our own Solar System yet we are certain that our Sun is orbiting the Black hole at the centre of the Galaxy? How the hell does that work?

It's called Science, Observation, Astronomy, and Celestial Cartography.

Observing the motion of the stars is something that humans have been doing for a very, very long time and can be measured in centuries if not longer.

Understanding Celestial Mechanics helps quite a bit too.

The further you get from our sun, the lower the Escape Velocity needed. This is due in part to the gravitational influence of our sun.

For example, if you are as far from the sun as the Earth, to escape the sun's gravity and not remain in orbit, you'd need to exceed 42 km/s. However, if you are as far as Neptune, you only need to be going 7.7 km/s.

Using the formula in the link I provided, you can calculate what the escape velocity is at 1 light year from our sun if you want. It's about 167 meters per second. At 4 light years (half way from here to Sirius) it is about 84 meters per second.

Our sun is moving at about 220 km/s around the center of our galaxy and at about 20 km/s relative to the nearest stars.....in other words, it's moving much too fast to be in orbit around Sirius or any other visible star for that mater.

Originally posted by eriktheawful
reply to post by theabsolutetruth

 

Your news link is a few years old.

Both the Hydrogen Cooling and funding itself for WISE ran out back in Oct. 2010. WISE was continued for NEOs for a while.

The only way that WISE could perform another sky survey is if someone goes up and replaces that Hydrogen cooling.

You are wrong.

www.jpl.nasa.gov...

WISE completed its all-sky survey in 2011, after surveying the entire sky twice at infrared wavelengths. The 16-inch (40-centimeter) telescope ran out of its coolant as expected in 2010, but went on to complete the second sky scan using two of its four infrared channels, which still functioned without coolant. At that time, the goal of the mission extension was to hunt for more near-Earth asteroids via a project called NEOWISE.

NASA has since funded the WISE team to combine all that data, allowing astronomers to study everything from nearby stars to distant galaxies. These next-generation all-sky images, part of a new project called "AllWISE," will be significantly more sensitive than those previously released, and will be publicly available in late 2013.

"I had pretty much written off using WISE to find distant galaxy clusters because we had to reduce the telescope diameter to only 16 inches [40 centimeters] to stay within our cost guidelines, so I am thrilled that we can find them after all," said Peter Eisenhardt, the WISE project scientist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. and an author of the new paper. "The longer exposures from AllWISE open the door wide to see the most massive structures forming in the distant universe."

Other projects planned for the enhanced WISE data include the search for nearby, hidden cool stars, including those with masses as low as planets. If a large planet or tiny star does exist close to our solar system, an object some call "Tyche," then WISE's infrared data may reveal it.

Originally posted by DarknStormy

Originally posted by Flyingclaydisk
Trust me, if our sun was gravitationally influenced by any other 'nearby' massive object we'd know about it!

Though our solar system does move (albeit very gradually) around the solar system, it is for the most part stationary relatively speaking.

I don't understand what your saying.. Our solar system moves around the solar system?

Ah, good catch! It was early. I meant to say our sun (solar system) moves very slowly around our 'galaxy'.

reply to post by bloodreviara


The study said it '' triggered at least one of four giant planets (Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune) to be ejected in almost half of the simulations.'' Not Earth.

However there is no way of knowing if ANOTHER unknown large planet was flung from the solar system every 30 million years when it's orbit gets to a certain point.

It hasn't in any was ruled out that the Sun is possibly binary.

phys.org...

Kaib, a postdoctoral fellow in the Center for Interdisciplinary Exploration and Research in Astrophysics (CIERA) and the Department of Physics and Astronomy at Northwestern University and a National Fellow in the Canadian Institute for Theoretical Astrophysics at the University of Toronto, conducted computer simulations of the process with Queen's University physics professor Martin Duncan and Sean N. Raymond, a researcher at the University of Bordeaux and the Centre national de la recherche scientifique in France. They added a a hypothetical wide binary companion to the Earth's solar system which eventually triggered at least one of four giant planets (Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune) to be ejected in almost half of the simulations.

This report is from Dec 6 2012

www.jpl.nasa.gov...

Other projects planned for the enhanced WISE data include the search for nearby, hidden cool stars, including those with masses as low as planets. If a large planet or tiny star does exist close to our solar system, an object some call "Tyche," then WISE's infrared data may reveal it.

reply to post by theabsolutetruth


No, I'm afraid I'm not wrong. AIWISE has nothing to do with searching for infrared emitting objects. The coolant is gone. Sorry.

As for what AIWISE is doing:

Other projects planned for the enhanced WISE data include the search for nearby, hidden cool stars, including those with masses as low as planets. If a large planet or tiny star does exist close to our solar system, an object some call "Tyche," then WISE's infrared data may reveal it.

I did say in my post that so far they had found nothing (again....not wrong....sorry). I also said that it was possible that something might be found in the future.....

Are you saying that I'm wrong about that? That they will NOT find something later on? Hmmmm?

Originally posted by Andromerius
Excuse me, but doesn't our perspective of the stars change across millenia?

The sky was very different 20000 years ago...

Yes, it does, but very little.

However, 20,000 years ago the relative position of stars in the sky from the perspective of Earth was not remarkably different than it is today. Now, if you would have said 2 billion years ago (i.e. add 5 more zeros) that might be a little different story. Twenty thousand years in cosmic time is a mere drop in the bucket (or 'ocean' as it were).