Obama, Cheney, Bush and Powell in New Pro Gay Marriage Ad

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posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by seabag
 



Originally posted by seabag
Why can’t we make it separate but equal?


We could. And I certainly can't speak for gay people, but I have read a lot that indicates most gay people would be happy if they were permitted to 'join' as a couple in a legal way and then have all the same secular and legal benefits (state and federal) that legal marriage has. That includes adoption options and other discriminatory practices. That situation does not exist now, but I think it would be a giant step in the right direction. In fact, Obama campaigned on trying to get federal recognition of gay marriages in states that allow it. So, we're already beyond 'civil unions' and going for the next step: Federal recognition. (I say "we" because I support it fully.)

The progression toward full marriage equality probably will move in steps like that, too. Because, while many will be satisfied with a Civil Union, many won't be. And as the country becomes more accepting of gay people in society, people will ask... "Why is it called 'marriage' for some and 'civil union' for others"? And "religion" is NOT the answer to that question. I and my husband are atheist and our secular marriage had nothing to do with God, was not held in a church and we spoke NO religious words whatsoever. And it's perfectly fine with religious people that we are Married now for 20 years. And don't say it's OK because we can procreate, because we can't. Never could.

The only reason people don't want to call it "marriage" is to deny something to a group of people in judgment and PUNISHMENT. If the word (marriage) were so precious and "sacred" to you, you wouldn't want me to use it, either. And I see exactly ZERO campaigns to prevent atheists from calling themselves "married". In fact, I don't see any campaigns to prevent Muslims, criminals, serial murderers, child molesters, or prostitutes from using the word. Just gay people. You "let" all those other groups use "your" word, because they're shining examples of your religion? They don't sin? What? Explain to me why you let all those other people use "your word" without so much as a whimper.

The reason people don't want to just 'call it something else' and move on, is because we can see that it's eventually going to happen anyway. This is a silly battle your side is going to lose. We live in a secular nation and equal is equal. Freedom is freedom, as my hero, Dick Cheney says. (:lol


This is going to happen, whether all at once, or in steps. If you support the Constitution; if you support the 14th amendment, you cannot be against marriage equality and equal treatment under the law, for one group of people who you've singled out as not living by YOUR religious beliefs, and deny them their equal rights.

THAT'S why people like me don't just accept it and move along.




posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 11:44 AM
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Ugh *triple facepalm* The biblical model of marriage is polygamy. All this "one woman and one man" crap being thrown about by people who just can't admit that homosexuality makes them feel icky is completely disingenuous.



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by LeatherNLace
 


Notice that the next image after the clip was a restaurant explosion!



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

The only reason people don't want to call it "marriage" is to deny something to a group of people in judgment and PUNISHMENT. If the word (marriage) were so precious and "sacred" to you, you wouldn't want me to use it, either. And I see exactly ZERO campaigns to prevent atheists from calling themselves "married". In fact, I don't see any campaigns to prevent Muslims, criminals, serial murderers, child molesters, or prostitutes from using the word. Just gay people. You "let" all those other groups use "your" word, because they're shining examples of your religion? They don't sin? What? Explain to me why you let all those other people use "your word" without so much as a whimper.



For this paragraph alone, your post is worth a thousand stars. Sorry I could only give you one.
Well said.



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by yadda333
 



Because religious gay people exist and want to take part in their religion.

How hard is that to comprehend?


Excuse me? Gay marriage is frowned upon by most Christians (still the predominant religion in America).

How hard is that to comprehend?

Do you think all the stink over this issue is because of simple political differences or because of the Christian view of marriage being between one man and one woman? Get real!




Oh okay--you seem to be in denial about the existence of gay Christians.

They exist--they believe in marriage--they want to participate.

Even if your broad statement that "Gay marriage is frowned upon by most Christians" was correct, then that means there is a sect of Christians that support gay marriage.

In this country, we do not ostracize the few in favor of the many.



edit on 2/22/2013 by yadda333 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 01:17 PM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


It's my understanding that many American Roman Catholics have broken with church doctrine on this issue.

My sister who is Roman Catholic certainly has... I've no idea what the split is, though.

Sorry to answer for FF, but I couldn't help it.



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Your hero, huh?


This is one of those issues that shows that most of us aren't so far apart as some would like us to be. Or believe us to be.

Benevolent Heretic on the same side as Dick Cheney...



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 01:45 PM
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Same sex marriage will be the norm soon and the conservatives [GOP] will accept it because they are losing huge segments of the electorate anyway and they can't afford to lose homosexuals and their family members, friends and sympathetic supporters. That's a huge segment of voters.

Now if they can win back minorities and women they might be a viable party again.


And I don't care if Cheney, Bush and Powell support gay marriage....nothing can wash the blood from their hands!!
edit on 22-2-2013 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 09:38 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
Genesis 2:24 - Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Matthew 19:4-6 - He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”


Nice quotes.....where is the relevance to the United States Constitution?


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof


SOURCE: 1st Amendment of the United States Constitution

You know the constitution, right?


I don’t see how marriage can be interpreted any other way.


Why, because of your religious bias? It's a damn good thing the US government can't use religious bias.


Why don’t you answer my question? Why can’t we call it something else, give this new union the same benefits under the law and move on????


For starters, If the government wishes to issue "civil union" licenses, then they will incur a great expense to go back in time and issue "civil union" licenses to all of us who have already committed to one another under the "marriage" license. Fine by me; however, it's just more government waste at the taxpayer's expense. Being the fiscal conservative you are, you should appreciate the marriage license, regardless of it's legal definition, no?

Nevertheless, nobody is asking any religious institution to accept same-sex marriage; therefore, it will not damage the institutional integrity of your religious affiliation. If your "church" decides to accept such unions, then perhaps you need to change churches; better yet, perhaps your church should change you. However, if your religious institution chooses not to recognize same-sex marriages, then you are in the right place AND they (and you) are fully entitled to have such beliefs; so long as those belief are not discriminatory in nature (i.e., jobs, housing, etc.)

Bottom line: other peoples lives are not your business; even if your business is hate.
edit on 22-2-2013 by LeatherNLace because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2013 @ 08:20 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 



The progression toward full marriage equality probably will move in steps like that, too. Because, while many will be satisfied with a Civil Union, many won't be. And as the country becomes more accepting of gay people in society, people will ask... "Why is it called 'marriage' for some and 'civil union' for others"? And "religion" is NOT the answer to that question. I and my husband are atheist and our secular marriage had nothing to do with God, was not held in a church and we spoke NO religious words whatsoever. And it's perfectly fine with religious people that we are Married now for 20 years. And don't say it's OK because we can procreate, because we can't. Never could.


Only @ 3.4% of Americans are gay. Why do you think @ 96.6% of the country should conform to the desires of 3.4%?? That’s pretty arrogant, is it not?






The only reason people don't want to call it "marriage" is to deny something to a group of people in judgment and PUNISHMENT. If the word (marriage) were so precious and "sacred" to you, you wouldn't want me to use it, either. And I see exactly ZERO campaigns to prevent atheists from calling themselves "married". In fact, I don't see any campaigns to prevent Muslims, criminals, serial murderers, child molesters, or prostitutes from using the word. Just gay people. You "let" all those other groups use "your" word, because they're shining examples of your religion? They don't sin? What? Explain to me why you let all those other people use "your word" without so much as a whimper.


It’s not a punishment to deny the word “marriage” to gays. The reason nobody makes a stink about all of the other cases you described is because in those cases marriage is still between ‘one man and one woman’ which is the point of contention.






The reason people don't want to just 'call it something else' and move on, is because we can see that it's eventually going to happen anyway. This is a silly battle your side is going to lose. We live in a secular nation and equal is equal. Freedom is freedom, as my hero, Dick Cheney says. This is going to happen, whether all at once, or in steps.


We don’t live in a secular nation. Your side wants everyone to believe that’s the case but the reality is that a majority of Americans don’t see it that way. This is another case of 3% thinking they can impose their will on 97%. Many who support your secular causes are just dolts who don’t have any moral compass and will go along with pretty much anything. These people think they are informed after getting a few sound bites from the MSM or listening to a Jimmy Kimmel monologue. These people are more concerned with their highly leveraged BMW, their next Bahamas vacation, the latest video game on Xbox or who is going to win this season’s Dancing with the Stars. This is the willfully ignorant bunch that goes along with the 3%’s agenda.

In the end, you likely will get what you want. The moral decay of America has been growing for decades.





If you support the Constitution; if you support the 14th amendment, you cannot be against marriage equality and equal treatment under the law, for one group of people who you've singled out as not living by YOUR religious beliefs, and deny them their equal rights.

THAT'S why people like me don't just accept it and move along.


The people have spoken. The law defines marriage as between one man and one woman. That may change one day but TODAY it’s the law! I rest my case.



edit on 25-2-2013 by seabag because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2013 @ 08:35 AM
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reply to post by LeatherNLace
 



Nice quotes.....where is the relevance to the United States Constitution?


There is no gay marriage provision in the constitution.

Marriage throughout history has been predominately between MAN and WOMAN. The quotes (which have been around for a minute) are an example of this fact.





For starters, If the government wishes to issue "civil union" licenses, then they will incur a great expense to go back in time and issue "civil union" licenses to all of us who have already committed to one another under the "marriage" license. Fine by me; however, it's just more government waste at the taxpayer's expense. Being the fiscal conservative you are, you should appreciate the marriage license, regardless of it's legal definition, no?


It's no expense to tax payers at all. If you want a license that's recognized, you pay for it.





Nevertheless, nobody is asking any religious institution to accept same-sex marriage; therefore, it will not damage the institutional integrity of your religious affiliation. If your "church" decides to accept such unions, then perhaps you need to change churches; better yet, perhaps your church should change you. However, if your religious institution chooses not to recognize same-sex marriages, then you are in the right place AND they (and you) are fully entitled to have such beliefs; so long as those belief are not discriminatory in nature (i.e., jobs, housing, etc.)

Bottom line: other peoples lives are not your business; even if your business is hate.


All that most people are asking for is to call it something else. You are so sensitive!


Most people don’t care what you and your gay partner do!! AT ALL!!! Especially me!! I’m just saying that if you leave the institution of marriage alone and call it something else you would stop getting so much resistance. You’re free to keep pushing the issue all you want, I’m just telling you there is an easier way for you to get the benefits most gays cannot get now.



edit on 25-2-2013 by seabag because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2013 @ 08:36 AM
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reply to post by seagull
 


The current push in the US by the POTUS and other politicians has been ramped up. Why, because the conclave for the next pope is coming. The internal division within the Vatican is pushing out the ones that do not support gay marriage or abortions.

After the white smoke, the Roman Catholic Church will change their stance. And, the U.N, US, and the most of the rest are already there. NWO has many tentacles.

It will destroy the Catholic Church, not that it needed much help.



posted on Feb, 25 2013 @ 08:36 AM
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Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by FlyersFan
 


And people called Bush and Cheney conservative!


If anybody had any doubts about the 2-party facade, this should put it to rest.


Cheney's daughter is a lesbian. Kinda hard for him to push anti-gay right with his own blood is gay.



posted on Feb, 25 2013 @ 08:38 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


The real problem here is a bunch of jack ass scumbags taking different clips and comments from people out of context and mashing it into a pro this or pro that ad... Whether for gay marriage or not I don't care what you think, what the defining line here is the liars who create and spread false messages to convey someone as this or that when it is obvious it is based on nothing but slick willy editing. END OF STORY



posted on Feb, 25 2013 @ 08:42 AM
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reply to post by Evil_Santa
 



Cheney's daughter is a lesbian. Kinda hard for him to push anti-gay right with his own blood is gay.


It’s not hard at all. My beliefs are my beliefs.

My views and my morals wouldn’t change simply because my daughter was gay.



posted on Feb, 25 2013 @ 10:08 AM
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reply to post by seabag
 



Originally posted by seabag
Only @ 3.4% of Americans are gay. Why do you think @ 96.6% of the country should conform to the desires of 3.4%??


Don't make the mistake of thinking that only gay people support gay marriage.
The percentage of gay people is irrelevant. What matters is the number of people who support equality, as opposed to people like you, who don't. The majority of Americans support marriage equality.
And 59% oppose DOMA. The numbers aren't looking so good for you.




We don’t live in a secular nation.


Uh... Yes, we do.
Have you read the first amendment? It guarantees the free exercise of religion and forbids the government from making laws based on religion. If you want to live in a theocracy, may I suggest Iran, Somalia or Vatican City?



The people have spoken.


Yes, they have.
See numbers above.



The law defines marriage as between one man and one woman.


DOMA has been found to be unconstitutional in 8 federal courts. The Supreme Court will be hearing one case next month. They will almost certainly overturn it.

DOMA



posted on Feb, 25 2013 @ 10:18 AM
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reply to post by seabag
 


To use YOUR words...

Only 39% of Americans oppose gay marriage. Why do you think 61% of the country should conform to the desires of 39%?? That’s pretty arrogant, is it not? Source




Originally posted by seabag
I’m just saying that if you leave the institution of marriage alone and call it something else you would stop getting so much resistance.


It sounds like you're suggesting that "giving up" the fight for equality, because there is resistance, is the right thing to do... That's a very weak mindset and one that most Americans DO NOT share.



posted on Feb, 25 2013 @ 10:21 AM
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reply to post by starfoxxx
 


The quotes from the ad WERE in context. Each person was talking about marriage rights for gay people in ALL cases. End of Story.



posted on Feb, 25 2013 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by Signals

Why do gay couples need to be legally married? Don't they receive the same legal protections through a legal union or partnership?

There are over 1000 benefits that heterosexual married people get. As of now, gay married or those in a civil union do not get any survivor benefits such as social security, military benefits and healthcare benefits to name a few. It's time and well over due for full equality across the board.
edit on 25-2-2013 by SinMaker because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2013 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by seabag
 


To use YOUR words...

Only 39% of Americans oppose gay marriage. Why do you think 61% of the country should conform to the desires of 39%?? That’s pretty arrogant, is it not? Source


I told you who those so-called "supporters" are and I'm not impressed.

Regardless, the current law is very clear. Gay marriage is not legal.


If what you claim is true then it would have been law already...Obama's been POTUS going on 5 years now. You don't have the numbers to make it happen yet.



edit on 25-2-2013 by seabag because: (no reason given)



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