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Pope's decision 'partly prompted' by claims over influence of gay lobby

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posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 08:24 AM
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Pope's decision 'partly prompted' by claims over influence of gay lobby


www.irishtimes.com

In this morning's article, it is claimed that the cardinals reported that various lobbies within the Holy See were consistently breaking the sixth and seventh commandments, namely "thou shalt not steal" and "thou shalt not commit adultery"

The "stealing" was in particular related to the Vatican Bank, IOR, whilst the sexual offences were related to the influence of an active gay lobby within the Vatican.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 08:24 AM
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It seems that there was an investigation carried out inside the Vatican and it is believed when the pope was provided with the details he basically decided he had enough of this and wanted out.

Its not a completely new story but it seems it may be news to the pope. It has been referred to a lot in the past.

These stories were already doing the rounds ;
www.guardian.co.uk...
vaticaninsider.lastampa.it...

So the story goes the pope is so shocked by the report given to him before Christmas he decides to resign.

To become Pope you would have imagined he would be aware of something like this.

www.irishtimes.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 08:30 AM
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I'd have to see some hard facts before I buy into this. The article doesn't name any sources ... and leaves three cardinals unnamed .. and it 'supposes' the facts. It is possible that it's true .. but it's also just as possible that it isn't. Just dont' know ....



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 08:42 AM
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I'm thinking what 'prompted' him was that he's dying from rapid old age onset ...
Catholic Culture News
He's blind in one eye. He's lost a huge amount of weight to the point it's worrisome.
He's falling out of bed. Other reports have him falling when not in bed as well.
His blood pressure is way up. He's been told he can't travel by air.
Did you see him at the Christmas Midnight Mass? He looked SICK.

The guy is old. He knows it. He can't handle the job.
The only thing he's done that I agree with .. he's resigning.
Good for him!
Let someone else who has the health deal with it.



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 09:04 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 




The internal report prepared by Cardinals Julian Herranz, Josef Tomko and Salvatore De Giorgi had been commissioned by Benedict himself.


How's that reading comprehension? Or did you neglect to read the article?

ganjoa



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 01:53 PM
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I don't get it...
What does gayness have to do with adultery?



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by ganjoa
How's that reading comprehension? Or did you neglect to read the article?

Snarky.
I read it. I missed the names mentioned.
Cardinals Julian Herranz, Josef Tomko and Salvatore De Giorgi
Ages 82, 82, and 88. List of Cardinals Here
From Italy, Slovakia and Spain.

Again ... it may be true or it may not be.
We'd need more info .. and from more sources ...
It could go either way ...



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 01:44 AM
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that new revelation is outrageous!
I have no words to call it properly. Let see the full extend to where it goes. And let see it now before the election of a substitute of pope Ratzinger. Why that hurry??? We don't need a third mandate of John Paul II- Benedict hierarchy over there, taht cooked a lot of scandals. Will the pope or cardinals arrest now more butlers for the new leak? How shameless the Vatican acts, as if in the 15th century when they crowned kings!

After such a report, the pope should fire half of the curia involved, and not to hide behind Twitter and other meaningless homilies!



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 02:04 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Whatever the reason, I tend to find least persuasive the argument that he was getting old. It seems absurd to me that after 600 years, where every predecessor before him dies in office, he somehow thinks it should be different for him.

I have no clue what his real motivations were, but this age and health thing makes no sense to me.



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 02:39 AM
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That speaks of huge inside terrific speculations with both sex and money, covered over time by popes and cardinals...

If the cardinal-electors from outside world cannot overcome the situation within the Vatican, they could opt to convene elsewhere and to choose someone who is not within the Vati-system. Including someone a bishop or even a priest, who is holy enough to lead the 1.1 bln church.

I just cannot imagine the election will be real inside so set circumstances of not only guilty people inside the Vatican walls, but also those who covered the entire affair, on the top by pope Benedict who luckily resigned, but his top cardinals still remain in office. That is an absurd to have anything true inside, if such men control it. Sorry to say it, but the cardinals who are clean may opt for something better, different from the charade prepared by those same guilty men. History knows such occasions. Benedict 9 held orgies in the Lateran palace. He resigned 3 times and 3 times was elected pope. At last he was excommunicated by a next pope, however pardoned at his death. Do we need those pages of history to repeat again? They unfold before our eyes and we refuse to believe it is it. Yes it is it!



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 02:59 AM
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as far as I could understand the sex included a choir, is it the Sistine choir of boys? Are those angelic children that we see singing so beautiful at every major papal mass, also abused by bishops and cardinals???? Shame, pity and sorrow! Babylon the Great reveals herself!

www.singers.com...

4.bp.blogspot.com...
edit on 22-2-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 03:10 AM
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Arent most priests gay? Wouldnt it follow that they might somehow sleep their way up the arcbishopship hierarchy or whatever its called?

I've heard from persons who worked in monasteries over the years, what went on on certain nights in certain areas, and read a report somewhere stating priests/clergy had a higher HIV rate of infection, than even the general population of men. Wondered why was that... since they're supposed to be against homosexual acts, any sex acts before marriage, as well as acts of lusts altogether.

The... IRONY? But figures, since the whole "forgive me father, for I have sinned" arrangement is the perfect setup for abuse of power especially when mature community leaders are given the opportunity to release their opressed desires with youth too young too understand what they're forced into and robbed of... until its way too late.



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 03:14 AM
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Plus there is nothing new about money scandals and the Vatican.

They have been laundering money and stealing for hundreds of years.

I don't see any surprise there.

I also don't believe sex scandals are anything new, they are just humans.

I agree on the health issue, he knew taking the job it was till death do you part position.
edit on 22-2-2013 by timetothink because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 03:33 AM
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The story is developing and there is much more in Italian (try google). A "Choir" is involved as far as I can understand.

If the pope knew of all that since December 2012, he should fire by now the cardinal secretary of state and a dozen other prelates. Let he do it NOW! Instead of trying to manipulate elections and speed them unnecessarily, he still can clear the Vatican in last effort! If he wants to remain in history with anything good. In any country such scandals of ministers would lead to their automatic resignation or firing by the PM or president. What does Rome wait for next? Babylon to fall may be punished from heaven? Let the guilty people go, now, and let the new conclave be without touch of those same people! Or bear the shame of history, as Benedict 9 did!



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 03:37 AM
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reply to post by 2012newstart
 


If this is true and he just bailed out, that in itself is a scandal.

He's the big kahuna and he just bails.

It doesn't take much physical effort to say "get rid f them".

I don't participate in the church any longer, but I feel betrayed by him just quitting.



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 03:54 AM
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I feel, pity and shame, for those who are innocent in the scandals. There are thousands of bishops and tens of thousands of innocent priests.

I call to the cardinal-electors to forcibly denounce that latest shameful facts within the Vatican itself, and to ask for either immediate resignations of the top offenders (why not jailing them as the butler for much smaller offenses?) OR....


OR the cardinals-electors to choose a better place for the conclave!

How on Earth you could have the most holy election of the next pope, who might be the last one, with people like that ruling over??? And it will be called canonical?

Are we in the inquisition time when the word of the inquisitor was the final law? Come on, people, we are in 2013 AD, 50 years after the space walk and after the nuclear tests!

If the cardinal-electors have lost their common sense, and are going like sheeple to elect the pre-chosen candidate in pre-set conditions by those same guilty people, let they not be surprised of the result for the Church. Because there are still sane people among the 1 billion followers of Christ who call themselves Catholics!



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 04:27 AM
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Where is cardinal Dolan to say his word on the situation?
Where is cardinal Maradiaga, the outspoken critic?
Are there personalities among the cardinals who will really lead the billion-wide flock into a better future? Or all now hope of the benevolence of a handful of group behind scene who hided scandals after scandals, and may be participated in them? At the expense of ever miserable conditions not only in the Third World but also of poor among the developed countries?
Let the cardinal who feels he has the capability to be Peter the Second, speak out loudly to be heard on these issues! The scandal is already a fact, but not the solution. I believe there are such people among the 118 cardinals.

The other option is so outrageous, that I doubt the survival of the Roman church as a whole, the way we know it. May be some kind of a punishment from heaven will fall on Rome during the conclave, as we saw the lightning strike. If there is not even one among them to stand firm behind what is in the Gospel! How they want the flock to follow any moral teaching they preach? WHat if they are simply wrong? Apostle Peter was married, and that is may be the single biggest KNOWN evidence against the current system that holds grip on 1.1 bln people on their everyday life including the intimacy life. It is not only abortion issue. It is much wider than that. It is what you and me are allowed to do by those same elderly men, and what we are forbidden. While some of them shamelessly sin with unspeakably worse than what the call "sin" for the common faithful. Shame on you, Babylon! Your end is near! Go out of her my people, cries the voice of the angel of revelation!



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 05:18 AM
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Originally posted by loam
reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Whatever the reason, I tend to find least persuasive the argument that he was getting old. It seems absurd to me that after 600 years, where every predecessor before him dies in office, he somehow thinks it should be different for him.

I have no clue what his real motivations were, but this age and health thing makes no sense to me.


It may be unusual for a pope, but not that surprising for this particular one. Benedict XVI carried the idea of "retiring" with him when he was still a cardinal. He repeatedly asked John Paul II for permission to retire from his duties back then, but was declined. I also remender an interview he gave when he still was Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, stating that he wishes to retire and devote his remaining time to the writing of books in his later years.



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 06:09 AM
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Originally posted by tropic
Arent most priests gay?


All priests who were not framed and blackmailed into being priests will certainly be homosexual. What proportion of the priesthood that is, I don't know. Why else would a man choose to live in a same-sex society (a priests' home) and surround himself will frock wearing altar boys if he wasn't a puff, or facing 40 years in prison? Homosexuals invented the Catholic Church, and all other religions and same-sex societies, for the purpose of ultimately creating a same-sex society. Same-sex societies are desired only by homosexuals.

edit on 22-2-2013 by Trafalgar1805 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 06:13 AM
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Okay .. I did some snooping and contacted some of my ol' Catholic sources .. some are rather well placed in the Church (no, I'm not going to name them) ... and it seems that everyone is taking this article on face value in regards to there actually being a 300 page document that is scathing about a 'gay lobby'.

No one really knows for sure what is in the document .. there is only one copy.
But the flavor of the document is known. And the flavor is putrid.

However, it wasn't this document that caused the Pope to retire. It helped show him that he's not healthy enough for the job, but it itself wasn't the cause for the retirement. It is his belief that a person has to be fit to do the job, and he isn't fit to do it. He is half blind; he can't travel anymore and can't fly; he has extremely high blood pressure and the pressures of the job could easily stroke him out; he falls out of bed; he falls when walking; ... he simply can't do the job and he has always believed that a pope should be able to retire if he can't do the job.

So the title of this thread ... that the retirement is 'partly prompted' by the document, is true. His health is the reason and the document drove home that he hasn't got the health to do the job that is needed.

Anyways .. that's what I got from my 'sources'.

Take it or leave it as you wish.





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