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College degree needed to get even low paying jobs today.

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posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 10:40 AM
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reply to post by rickymouse
 



Yes, Rickymouse...we are in a depression. For years, we were in a recession and Bush was in utter denial of the fact. Then, after the 2007-8 financial crisis, we plummeted into a depression. In fact, when you look at housing prices in what occurred during the Great Depression and compare it to today, what you'll see is that housing prices a few years ago crashed faster and harder by a large scale when compared to the Great Depression. 33% decline in a matter of a couple years. For anyone wondering how the Great Depression (which is commonly associated with a stock market crash) is related to what we have today, here ya go: www.bloomberg.com... History has simply repeated itself.

I have a b.s. of accounting, honors or better GPA for ever year. Whipped out my degree in a little over 3 years (it was BRUTAL). Also have 15+ years of bookkeeping/managerial experience for a mid-sized corp. $42k in student loan debt, roughly $4k of which is interest. I've seen jobs for accountants at wages like $12-15 an hour or roughly $21k a year. A few at $36k a year starting but those fill extraordinarily fast. It's like I told my dad a couple months ago when my $500ish student loan payments were about to begin--I told him that I'd probably be better off just putting a bullet in my head. Believe it or not, I'm actually quite content with every other aspect of my life and I'm not actually suicidal. I'm just smart enough to know that my life is now utterly screwed. As an accountant who aced stats and financial analysis, I can pretty well approximate the future and it isn't pretty. We WILL be Greece within a couple years unless something changes drastically.

How it is all related: The LIBOR rates involved with the scandal actually did effect a good number of student loans. The response by Obama was to reduce the payments for loans after 2007. However, reducing the payment amount causes a dramatic impact on how much interest you end up paying when all is said and done (if ever "done"). It's a band aid. The manipulations of the housing market and interest rates also impacted everything else under the sun. You can see counties and cities crumbling under toxic derivatives: www.bloomberg.com...

The frauds perpetrated trickled through things from as large as counties and cities (perhaps even states, holistically), all the way down through the colleges and universities (also tend to use bonds for development/improvements/expansion) and to individual homeowners. The problem in regards to college education combined with student loans is that a student is likely to get double or triple hit by the effects through high tuition costs, LIBOR impacted student loans, and perhaps fleecing at the academic level as universities use entities like Higher One in which to deposit their excess loan monies. Take a look at their fee schedule: www.higheroneaccount.com... and compare that to your own banking account. Students at universities around the nation who were receiving a student loan were forced to use this specific bank.

Take away--What has happened is criminal. They say ignorance is bliss. Nearly every day, I wish I hadn't taken accounting and financial analysis because, by doing so, I see precisely how I and god knows how many other students across the nation were absolutely bent over not just by sketchy and fraudulent activities by banks but by our own Uncle Sam, too. I should have been an art major so maybe I could sleep better at night.






edit on 21/2/13 by WhiteAlice because: need more coffee




posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 10:41 AM
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Years ago my spouse was professor in an online graduate program - the career field required this for certain licensure's to be obtained - the career field could improve or ruin others lives depending on how it was applied.

My spouses syllabus required in clear terms good spelling, syntax and coherent writing skills commensurate with being called a professional in the field, my spouse even said spellcheck is your friend! of course plagerism was an automatic fail.

I had the chance to help grade papers over many semesters produced by these master degree holders.

Fully 50% could not spell, write or convey ideas any better than 6th to 8th graders and in several case an 8th grader would have been failed outright for poor performance. The failures were flagrant and not just nit picky in nature. A couple of grad students were caught plagerising - they should have known better holding master degrees.

After having $75,000 plus taxpayer funded primary education then spending another $30,000 to $60,000 on university education over 14 year plus time period these folks still did not have even basic skills but they sure had a piece of paper that said they did - what a joke.

We all know the results of "No child shall fail" ego building programs in public schools and I conclude that the for profit university system will do the same in order to keep the money flowing through by advancing students deficient in basic skills right up and through graduate level programs.

The net effect is a dilution of the meaning and importance of degreed professionals in the marketplace, sure you can argue opposite by low level jobs requiring a degree - all that proves is a very bad job market and too many degree holders or its just the institutions maximizing cash flow at dire expense of those who should never have been there.

Used to be people went to university because they wanted a specific career and were highly motivated to succeed with a goal in mind prior to attending - now its going for the sake of getting the paper for many.

All of this lands squarely back upon our politicians who have allowed good paying jobs that needed no degree to leave our shores. Open porous borders that diluted the native workforce salary and employability. A continued culteral focus on obtaining things and objects well before any financial underpinnings are in place.

Free trade, open borders and a consumer based service economy are all part of this.



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by littled16
 


Great point. I did not go to college because I have never been very good at following directions. A lot of my friends are dealing with the debts of getting Bachelor degrees. We get paid the same, and I actually have a better job than them because I started working for the company I work for now ( I work for a .com) at 24 when most of them were still in school. The difference with them and I is that I am not 50k in debt, and I have plenty of time to educate myself and protect myself against the government.



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 11:00 AM
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It's all a part of the free economics scam.

Cradle to grave debt/slavery

Few jobs require more than a high school diploma.

Our education system only teaches conformity, this is what needs to be changed first.

Students should be allowed to learn at the own pace, with consistent testing across the board.

Instead the bright students are punished for being bright, buried under needless homework assignments, and held back from their true potential.

The system is set up to allow only those chosen by the people in power, to have access to the market.

Just as communism was a lie and a con job, so is the free market.



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by Hawkmoon1972

Originally posted by guanyu

Originally posted by rickymouse
Yes, Obama is also covering it up but ...

Obama plays the same game as all the politicians.

I understand your many salient points.

But I continue to fail to see exactly why I am to give him a pass?


Why are we attempting to turn this into a political argument?? It isn't one. It is a financial argument and a cultural argument.

Let's keep the politics out of this. Throwing Obama sucks or eff the republicans all over the place will only serve to further muddy an already muddy issue

It was just a civil exchange between adults.

No one was trolling with generic your team sucks comments.

All is well.

But to pretend politics is disconnected from economics? Please. Obama, Romney, pick a politician, it's politics as usual.

People have said this is a complicated issue, people have been studying it for years, etc. No, bankers and economists have been studying it for years, and many of them have freely stated that it is rigged.

The infamous: "It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."

It really is that simple.

Unless you truly believe our economy is supposed to bubble and bust, continually, over and over and over and over and no one can predict it or control it.
edit on 21-2-2013 by guanyu because: (no reason given)
edit on 21-2-2013 by guanyu because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 11:12 AM
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I got a $14.50 / hr job when I was 19. No degree. Not boasting, but even my coworkers told me on multiple times a degree is a waste of money. Many of them didn't have degrees either, and by now (I have since left that job) they are making even more, some on to $100k/yr jobs.This is in the tech field, which is growing and growing, certainly not a field with closed doors. What I'm saying is that there are jobs if you have skills, like someone on the first page said... and skill isn't something limited to certain people, it's something anyone can acquire at home with practice.



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 11:39 AM
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Yes I was a college boy.

But I grew up pretty poor, and when I turned 18 I moved out on my own and became even more poor. Still went to school though, and worked.

Great thing about being poor is that if you want something bad enough, you figure out how to get it. You pick up broken things and figure out how to fix them. You take others tossaways and pull a few more years out of them. And you learn how to keep food on the table and a roof over your head the hard way.

Step forward a few years, post education. I live a comfortable life and have everything I need. (keyword:need, not want). But I never forgot those days gone by. My wife tells me when I am fixing something up or finding ways to use stuff that others would just trash, "you dont need to do that anymore, we can just replace it". But I do need to. For me. For I know that it is just as easy to lose where we are at as it was getting here. And I will be ready and able to make due and live well even then.

My education has helped me. I would be a fool to say otherwise.
My diverse outside-education skill-set will always be an asset though.

Cant wait for the end-times where civilization breaks down. I know I will still be in demand.
edit on 21-2-2013 by smirkley because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by tnhiker
Its an employers market right now. They can post ridiculous qualifications for a job knowing somewhere there is somebody with it. I read one wanting a masters of mechanical engineering, with 6 or 7 different certifications for a $15/hr maintenance job. The days of walking in, applying and starting are way over. Last HR person I talked to said on average they get over 100 qualified applicants per job, plus countless others that are not qualified. Talking engineering field here. A lot of the jobs that a BS was good enough for 10 years ago when I got mine, are requiring friggen PhD's.


Funny, I remember not wanting a Ph.D. years ago because of a nightmare I had. I was in supermarket and I heard my name over the store PA, "Dr. Walter White, with a Ph.D. in Economics. Clean up in aisle 8. Dr. White, clean up in aisle 8." I felt anxious and covered in sweat when I awoke. So I only have a Masters. I think I want to learn to play the guitar.



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 11:58 AM
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reply to post by FortAnthem
 


I don't think it is so much about debt,, more like putting a buffer between new people coming of age to get into the job market.

It is very difficult to get a job.. People are taking waaaaay to long to retired simply because people are too much in debt or they just love to spend.

Where i work everyone has 30+ plus years one is up to 49yrs on the job... im 34...

If there are any kids who want to work in my field they have a long time to wait because these people are still going. I only got in out of luck and because I had a degree.

It is not only that people are taking longer to retire it is that jobs are becoming more scarce as well.. so you have to put hurdles in order to delay people or keep them busy.


If we had a surplus of jobs many companies would be more than willing to train people on the job starting out at a lower payscale.

This is just a sign of how bad teh job market is. There are jobs out there they are just not as abundant as they once were.



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by artfuldodger
Funny, I remember not wanting a Ph.D. years ago because of a nightmare I had. I was in supermarket and I heard my name over the store PA, "Dr. Walter White, with a Ph.D. in Economics. Clean up in aisle 8. Dr. White, clean up in aisle 8." I felt anxious and covered in sweat when I awoke. So I only have a Masters. I think I want to learn to play the guitar.


Oh thank you for a much needed laugh in this heavy discussion. I would say that could have very well been a prophetic dream.
I have a friend with a phd in psychology who has a tech support job. He's not dumb either.



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 12:20 PM
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I may be a stupid poor person who bought into the whole "college scam" but I certainly do not support it. Here's the thing though... Where I live, East Tennessee, there is actually an abundance of skilled tradesmen. Many of them are lucky to see $14 an hour. And I'm talking about 20+ year vets in their multiple fields, my dad's peers. Most of you keep screaming that you can easily start out in a trade making well over $50k a year... Well I would love to know where because you wont see anywhere near that even after 20 years of experience around here. According to many ATS members, even after you adjust for cost of living, the pay here for a 20 year vet isn't even close to the pay wherever you guys are living for someone who is just getting started. I'm just not too sure I buy what you're selling anymore than I believe that the education I'm going into debt for is going to make life all roses and sunshine for my family.



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 12:23 PM
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reply to post by redhorse
 


Lol im sorry, i kinda warned that it would offend people. I usually did not care at the start, but when i was doing my Microbiology, i was among Psychology students who shared 1 or 2 course.... their life was laid back and stress free.. i wondered, how can someone getting BSc, just as me, have an easier life... so i went over the entire Psychology curriculum... i was dumbfounded....

i was like "this is bachelors of science? same as what i'm getting? why can't i just do this and boast my BSc title.."

I was spending hours in lecture AND LABS, lab report essays after lab reports essays, nerve wrecking lab results., oh yeah, separate test for LAB and Lecture of the same course.

It was mainly an frustration that build up in.... things were "unfair"...the amount of work you put into both programs were clearly not the equal... and this was my 18-19yrd old self frustrating over, which is part of who i am now.

i was never pissed off about the people who did it, i was more pissed off... "this course is a cheat to get BSc"

like it did not fit into any other science category.

There were many people doing Psychology > Med school. Because since it was easier to do, it gave higher GPA at the end, which s needed for Med School.

Hey in the end this is my opinion of the difference between Biological/Chemical Science compared to Metal health science...from what i experienced in my life, i don't judge people by their education, i'm actually happy they are actually studying something.
edit on 2/21/2013 by luciddream because: (no reason given)


And also clearly by the amount of spelling mistakes and edits in this post, you can clearly see i have weaknesses too lol
edit on 2/21/2013 by luciddream because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 12:24 PM
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You bet your rear end it's tough. I graduated almost a year ago and still haven't found a job that pays much better than min wage. With 35k+ of debt, it's just a death sentence in this world. I thought a degree in science would be enough to get me a good job, but a lot of my field was in government agencies and they have continued to cut all their jobs. My friend with the highest paying job works as a data entry assistant at like 10 an hr, as most of the people I know are doing 7-10 an hour or volunteering/interning with the capability to do so much more. I'm working on trying to get trained to install satellites of all things. At least it supposedly pays as much as an entry level job in my field with a M.S., which I'm basically required to get to have a "career" in my field. With a B.S./B.A. you qualify for some entry level lab jobs that your stuck in unless you get a masters, more likely your stuck with seasonal jobs. People that went to school for "in demand" jobs are even having trouble. All except people willing and able to move halfway across the country. When your just out of college, with rent, insurance, vehicle payments, etc. Your basically stuck for a while, unless you have a rich family.



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by smirkley
 


fixing things equated to desire coupled with mechanical aptitude.....a true sign of intelligence. couple it with little cost and you wind up with utilizing cost effectiveness and you show signs of common sense. Maybe you should go work in Congress, we could use people with a little common sense and frugality there



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by smirkley
 


Maybe you should go work in Congress, we could use people with a little common sense and frugality there


“Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company.” - George Washington
edit on 21-2-2013 by smirkley because: to correct a better quote



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 01:02 PM
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Originally posted by smirkley

Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by smirkley
 


Maybe you should go work in Congress, we could use people with a little common sense and frugality there


“Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company.” - George Washington
edit on 21-2-2013 by smirkley because: to correct a better quote


I guess Washington wouldn't want to be president today
He would be hiding in the closet from the corporate lobbiests that are there buying souls. There might be a dozen or two congressmen hiding with him



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 01:44 PM
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reply to post by Anundeniabletruth
 


Here in Cleveland I was hired at $15.00 a hour (Part-Time) working at a logistics Company. I'm a high school drop out, though I have also held plenty of jobs/gone to trade schools during my time in the military.

I learned to network (I hate that term). The Company offered me numerous times a full-time position which I declined. (I am retired after all)

I loved that job. It was highly physical work and you had to be on your toes at all times. I made more part-time that a lot of friends who worked full-time and had a degree.

As far as I was concerned, I was being paid to work out. The forklift drivers there started at 17.00 a hour and it went up rather fast as time was accrued. One fork driver was bringing in $27.00 per hour.

Only the truck drivers were union.

I'm not bragging, just stating that a degree is not the end all, be all.

As said before, degrees are not required and there are plenty of jobs across the U.S. that pay well. You just have to be willing to move. I know of quite a few folk who originated out of Tenn who are now working in Cleveland. This town (while I think it sucks, but that's a personal opinin) is starting to recover slowly.
edit on 21-2-2013 by TDawgRex because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by smirkley
 


fixing things equated to desire coupled with mechanical aptitude.....a true sign of intelligence. couple it with little cost and you wind up with utilizing cost effectiveness and you show signs of common sense. Maybe you should go work in Congress, we could use people with a little common sense and frugality there


The lawyer association would arrange for him to have a accident.

Or the MSM would start saying things that were untrue and libel him.

You just don't see to many good Pols go far these days. Most get out after their first term after realizing there just isn't any way to fix the problem without a total tidal wave clearing out those seats.

That would be something to watch wouldn't it? A Congress made up entirely of Freshman.



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 01:49 PM
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IF the price of a low level job is now a 4 year degree, then it is time for 4 year degrees schools to be public funded.

I say this not because I want them to be, personally I think apprenticeships should be more available....but that's why we made high school free. It is supposed to equip one with the skills needed for the low level job market.

I am seeing it in this area too - saw one job that wanted someone with a 4 year science or technical degree REQUIRED for a 9.00 an hour job, master's preferred.

It's really rather silly. Some of the BEST computer techs / engineers/ analysts/ I have EVER worked with were drop outs with no degree at all.



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by TDawgRex

Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by smirkley
 


fixing things equated to desire coupled with mechanical aptitude.....a true sign of intelligence. couple it with little cost and you wind up with utilizing cost effectiveness and you show signs of common sense. Maybe you should go work in Congress, we could use people with a little common sense and frugality there


The lawyer association would arrange for him to have a accident.

Or the MSM would start saying things that were untrue and libel him.

You just don't see to many good Pols go far these days. Most get out after their first term after realizing there just isn't any way to fix the problem without a total tidal wave clearing out those seats.

That would be something to watch wouldn't it? A Congress made up entirely of Freshman.


The lawyers association would arrange the accident but not kill him. They then could put more lawyers to work handling the lawsuit.
Win Win situation





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