College degree needed to get even low paying jobs today.

I think it mainly depends on what degree, now i'm probably going to offend some but, degree in english, anthropology etc are not going to help you much....

Bachelor of Science or Engineering in an IT or Electrical would help you out more. I seriously can't believe psychology is a BSc, its a joke compared to all the other science degrees, the crap i had to through to get my BSc in Microbiology was crap.

The best ideal thing to do now is to get BSc and go into a specific field...

For Ex.

Life Sciences(4 yr BSc) then to Regulatory Affairs(2 Yrs).. will start you off at 80-90k, this can be attained as early as age 24.

Biochemistry(4yrs BSc) then to Health and Safety(2yrs).. will have many opening, because everyone needs a health and Safety officer/committee... this can be 90k+

Something many of my colleagues did was BSC > Ultrasound Technicians... no experience starts at 70k.


Education is never a scam, however, the current institutions are trying to make education into a profit business.
Which needed to be addressed. I love learning!

reply to post by nomnom

That piece of paper won't do squat, if you can't perform with some decent skills.

Not true.

Often, without the piece of paper, you won't even get the chance to show off your skills. For nearly every job these days, computer software is used first to scan your application/resume for keywords. Then, those not qualifying are trashed, while the return group is then actually looked at by a human being (or another, more detailed, software program)...before ever calling you.

Bachelor's degree is the new high school diploma and Master's degree is the new Bachelor's degree. Poor Americans, having to pay for these. Personally, I paid about 100€ per annum for my degrees while receiving about 600€ a month in student benefits. During my Master's studies I worked in a research group at my University (ranks within top 100 in the world) and was paid extra 1000€ a month. Now working and doing a PhD in a governmental research institute and being paid 3500€ a month after taxes. Life is good.

Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by nomnom

 

That piece of paper won't do squat, if you can't perform with some decent skills.

Not true.

Often, without the piece of paper, you won't even get the chance to show off your skills. For nearly every job these days, computer software is used first to scan your application/resume for keywords. Then, those not qualifying are trashed, while the return group is then actually looked at by a human being (or another, more detailed, software program)...before ever calling you.

Yes, times have most definitely changed. That's not to say you can't walk into a local business and chat your way into a job. It's possible, most people have done it at one time or another, but if you're hoping to get hired by any sort of corporation... man their unpaid interns have degrees.

reply to post by luciddream


I couldn't agree more. Education is never a scam. However, the US education system is a scam. It is designed around profit, not learning.
Also, specialization is a great way to get started but be prepared to re-specialize multiple times in your career because fads com and go. I remember when process control and six sigma were joked about. Then they became mainstream and now things like having a black belt in six sigma mean a great deal less. Soon it will mean nothing more that a hs diploma does.

Originally posted by Thunder heart woman

Originally posted by HUMBLEONE
Bachelor of Science....we've got "SHOVEL READY" jobs galor in the United States of America. Masters degree...Doctor of Philosophy... "PICK AND SHOVEL READY" jobs for you bitches AND mountains of DEBT that you can never walk away from.... Wage slavery 2.0 has just arrived...step right up and get the latest ap for your Iphone.

My husband has a fancy bachelor's degree and works at the local grocery store. All of those years he spent busting his behind to get that degree and he has struggled for a year after getting out of college to find a job. He was on the dean's list every semester and held a 4.0 gpa every single year. Thanks Obama!

This has nothing to do with Obama. It has to do with a change in society that occured. There were too many people in the upper realms of corporations that weren't producing and corporations were not making money. This started before Obama took office and the big recession gave corporations a good chance to trim the fat. These jobs will not be created again for a while, by trimming the fat the corporations are making more money.

I know many people who work in stores, they are good people except those who are crabby because they work in the store instead of their desired profession. Liking your job makes it easier, I wouldn't mind working in a store, you get acclimated to it and it becomes a very good experience in life. You learn from everything you do if you want to learn. Don't feel inferior because of your job, occupation is by no way a real method to judge the worth of a person. Only those with unworthy egos judge people by their profession. Judge only by trustworthiness and honesty. But remember never to tell your wife the truth if she asks you if she's fat

Originally posted by rickymouse
This has nothing to do with Obama.

While we can't heap all our problems at his feet, let's not excuse the man entirely.

The national debt is not just a number. He has had to have nearly doubled the national debt within a single presidency. It must be some kind of record. The US has lost its credit rating. It is actually considered mildly delinquent in the international community.

These are serious issues that have occurred under Obama's watch. It has effected the economy, it has effected people's lives.

I'm not sure, "Thanks, Obama!" is the right thing to say, but I'm not so sure it's entirely wrong either.

reply to post by guanyu


We are in a depression, just because they changed the way they judge a depression to show that we are not does not mean it is not happening. Yes, Obama is also covering it up but he did not create this. I believe that this has been building for a long time, our belief in a false economy worldwide created this. We exported all the jobs that create a stable economy, giving the stability away. This "consumer based service oriented" economy that we adopted has never worked successfully in history. Creating an artificial need for things is like living a lie.

Computers are a tool for hiding reality, figures can be manipulated by people with the knowhow and there is no evidence to prove who did it when everything is tied together and under the control of those on top. Changes travel right down the system and those with knowledge of the truth are discounted and their reputation trashed because they have no evidence. On the other side, social media spreads knowledge of deceit. I don't expect it to be around for long.

Obama plays the same game as all the politicians. He has to. If people knew the whole truth they would not be happy and belief in our nation would tumble. Politicians are actors, acting out things in a certain way to try to please the public. Where did all the money go? Mostly into unneeded programs designed to stimulate the economy throughout the years. When the depression happened, we were deep in debt, lots of it hidden form everyone but a select few. A system designed to show that things are better than they actually are is what caused this mess. Spending money on pleasing people and businesses is what caused this mess.

This whole thing reminds me of an episode of Andy Griffith where Aunt B runs for the city council and says in her campaign that if it is for the good of the people than it is good to have. The other guy running against her gives figures that show how much it will cost each taxpayer and that the cost effectiveness of it is not there. She gives in in the end and says she is voting for the other guy to the surprise of her supporters. Sorry to say but America has been following Aunt B's flawed first philosophy for a long time now and look where it has got us. Those old shows had a lot of good common sense to them.

We can't get everything we want in society, that is irrational. We get dependent on this and get spoiled then we don't want to work together anymore to make things work. We need to pull together and start healing things, not argue amongst ourselves and put the blame on others. We all wasted this money, every single one of us helped create this mess. We stomped all over the ones that tried to tell us not to follow this path. We got used to taking government money for these unneeded things. We hired ccity managers that were trained on how to get this money and created work for our communities. We got rid of the many little markets and hardware stores that gave communities their stablility and opted to send this money to Walmart and Menards. These stores did not create extra jobs, they just replaced the jobs and formed our reliance on these businesses. Buy local and support your neighbor so the government doesn't have to. Be a strong community and take care of your own people.

In your opening statement you threw out the number of $10.00 an hour. For an illiterate, thats $10. an hour. For a grad with student loans it's more likely about $7-8.00 an hour considering the loan repayment.

The most successful people I'v known have had something called charisma. And that took them, and myself places others stood in line to be. There's a concept that I learned from an Inuit/Scottish friend called 'Happening'.

It makes use of charisma and going and 'doing'. Americans attention spans are so short, that if your 'in the trade' as it were, or portray your self as such, you already have the advantage over those trying to enter the trade. BUT, you had better be able to answer a lot of questions and have an ironclad bluff going for you.

Thats how you make it, being bold and making them scramble to acquire your expertise before their competitor does. lol.... extroverts need only apply.

reply to post by rickymouse


I can't give this sentiment enough stars.

********************************************************************

Originally posted by rickymouse
Yes, Obama is also covering it up but ...

Obama plays the same game as all the politicians.

I understand your many salient points.

But I continue to fail to see exactly why I am to give him a pass?

reply to post by Plotus


...."extroverts need only apply."

Not sure I agree with this one. I am a moderate introvert but I pushed to get my career going and I suck it up and deal with humanity to attempt to be successful. I think being extroverted is a big help but definitely not required. You just have to be able to deal with discomfort (sometimes extreme) to get where you need to be.

Also, those of us "in the trade" don't really have an advantage. I have witness several cases where some fresh out of college 20 something walk in an replace a 20+ year employee. The excuse is always the same, "the new person is more qualified". That is an out and out lie in every single case I know of. The truth is they can get this new kid for half of the money they were paying the older person. The failure in that is that the other people in the group then have to take up the slack for the new "more qualified" person who doesn't really know anything. It is a losing situation.

Originally posted by guanyu

Originally posted by rickymouse
Yes, Obama is also covering it up but ...

Obama plays the same game as all the politicians.

I understand your many salient points.

But I continue to fail to see exactly why I am to give him a pass?

Why are we attempting to turn this into a political argument?? It isn't one. It is a financial argument and a cultural argument.

Let's keep the politics out of this. Throwing Obama sucks or eff the republicans all over the place will only serve to further muddy an already muddy issue

reply to post by guanyu


Republicans can't fix this either. I liked Romney but I don't think he would have made a good president at this time. I actually do not know how to fix this mess and I have spent many hundred hours thinking about a solution. Unless they can convince the public that we can't be wasting money on things we do not really need, than I can't see a solution. This may be irreversible and the government may go under on it's own. Belief in the government is dying but I think it can still be fixed somehow, maybe if some of the people trying to tell the government that this system was doomed would get off their high horses and quit just saying "I told you so" were to approach the government and the government recognized them, this could be straightened out. Some people have spent all their lives observing this mess and may have figured out the solution.

This is why I advocate creating your own income. Don't depend on society to always have a job for you. Make one yourself.

I think those fake bunnies the government was pulling out of their hat were really disguised lemmings and they are all running towards the fiscal cliff now. Oh my

There needs to be more apprentice jobs, or on the job training. You go to school by the time you get out the jobs for that are non-existent, or your skills are obsolete. Most jobs train you and hold your hand and show you the ropes even though you have a college degree lol. I have ran into some people with Phd's that was smart as a box of rocks and couldn't drive a nail in a board to save their lives.

Oh and another rant that I have is... temp agents need to be outlawed! My god if a company would just train a person, then you would have a loyal employee for life. Don't go pay some stupid temp agency 15 dollars an hour that pays an employee 10 dollars an hour and no benefits. Quit being a cheap-ass and pay a decent wage and benefits and you won't have to hire another employee EVER.

Originally posted by Plotus
The most successful people I'v known have had something called charisma.

The most successful ones I've known have had SKILL.

Skill will mean you don't have to earn as much to pay for the things you can't do.

Pieces of paper don't fix cars or build houses.

reply to post by FortAnthem


I have some advice for those interested, of course it isn't for everyone and I kind of got lucky too.

Some people hate Unions even more hate labor but ...

Most trade labor Unions will train you free of charge in a trade, electrician, millwright, boil maker, pipe fitter, tool and die etc.

Course you could go to a technical college and pay for the training but why, when you can join a Union and get free training through an apprenticeship, On the job experience and most importantly earn a paycheck.

You'll come out with a Journeyman card, some programs even offer an associates degree in engineering at no cost to you. Then you can either stay in your trade or look for other opportunities elsewhere.

The buzz is there is a shortage of skilled tradesmen out there and the jobs are in demand. I went Millwright but looking back I envy the Electricians the most, they have more job opportunities than other trades or with their license can moonlight residential jobs through the newspaper or word of mouth.

All trades make 20+ an hour depending on geographical location, here on the East coast, north pays more, south pays less. Usually with lots of Overtime ... Many travel around hitting big jobs and shutdowns, they call them boomers, some get into shops or on steady with companies or open their own contractor business.

About me getting lucky ... I got on as Maintenance at a rather large appliance factory with my Journeyman's card and depending on how much overtime I want to work I can make from 60k to 150k+.

As I said it may not be for everyone but it is an option and you won't go into debt from student loans.

Originally posted by luciddream
I think it mainly depends on what degree, now i'm probably going to offend some but, degree in english, anthropology etc are not going to help you much....

Bachelor of Science or Engineering in an IT or Electrical would help you out more. I seriously can't believe psychology is a BSc, its a joke compared to all the other science degrees, the crap i had to through to get my BSc in Microbiology was crap.

Well, I'm right in there on the "joke" degree (psych), but my plan is to get my Ph.D, so maybe in your better-educated magnanimousness you will give me a pass. Oh Greatt Wun Hoo is Gooder at Maff and Microwbilologee.

(Point of note... A Bachelors in Psychology is necessary to become a psychologist, or at least so I am told).

Originally posted by luciddream
The best ideal thing to do now is to get BSc and go into a specific field...

Depends on your long term goals, but I can see this being the smart move for many people.

Originally posted by luciddream
For Ex.

Life Sciences(4 yr BSc) then to Regulatory Affairs(2 Yrs).. will start you off at 80-90k, this can be attained as early as age 24.

Maybe...

Originally posted by luciddream
Biochemistry(4yrs BSc) then to Health and Safety(2yrs).. will have many opening, because everyone needs a health and Safety officer/committee... this can be 90k+

Could be...

Originally posted by luciddream
Something many of my colleagues did was BSC > Ultrasound Technicians... no experience starts at 70k.

Something of an exaggeration here... They start closer to 57k, and with call-ins that would probably bump it around 63k... Maybe... Maybe... Really stretching to 65k. Only a slight fudge, but you had a point to make I suppose.

Originally posted by luciddream
Education is never a scam, however, the current institutions are trying to make education into a profit business.
Which needed to be addressed. I love learning!

I love learning too, and I agree that the schools-for-profit thing is getting... scary. But what I see weaving itself in and out of this thread is the same old "pff soft-science is for pussies" tripe.

I normally don't do this, and it is admittedly petty and small, but in every single response that I see (including your own) explaining how stupid psych, english, and anthropology degree seekers are, and how those grads can't form a sentence let alone make appropriate life decisions; there is a travesty of spelling, grammar, and capitalization errors. This is rather interesting considering the general context of "nar nar nar. Dese peeple are so stoopid" that is manifested. Stones and glass houses... Just sayin'...

Some people have better strengths than others. Math is not one of mine. I chose to invest in those strengths and talents rather than try to skin myself going through a curriculum loaded in my weaknesses. A curriculum that would only prepare me for a career that I would hate anyway.

So... Maybe I'm not that smart. I'll admit that. But I chose to try find a good niche for myself anyway. I just don't understand all of the hostility towards the people that do it that way. What did these people do to you...? (Before this snarky rebuttal I mean).