"Keep your so-called workers," U.S. boss tells France

I work for a shipping company in UK therefore speak to our French office regularly. Ive never had any trouble from then and when calls need too be made at crazy times in the morning they always answer.

I actually think the laid back approach is great, geez I mean they dont have siesta's like the spanish? Chill out and enjoy life a little, take it easy. Its not like they working in there pyjamas or getting nothing done?

Originally posted by 3SOT3RIC0
Sorry just read my post realized i left out the fact that i can pretty much write my own schedule at new job depending on due date of parts. Not braggin just really enjoying at least that aspect of the job. Trust me the rest of it sucks most of the time. I need to start buying lottery tickets

Nothing worse than getting into the habit of purchasing lottery tickets or scratch cards M8... You spend more money in the long run and only lose out!

It's good to know that you can schedue your own work time etc... where are you from in Europe? can you give more details to show that WE Europeans are not as lazy as "SOME" people would and have stated?

Kindest respects

Rodinus

Originally posted by NoJoker13
reply to post by Rodinus

 

35-45 hours of work? You mean the average American work week? French work forces dwindled when they had to attempt this? LOL

Ok, for your quick one liner which i feel was not at all thought out or even delved into in much detail... are you capable of coming up with proof and facts of what you say or are you going to stick to a small minded response and say that you don't need to justify because you are from the USA and therefore feel much more superior? (oh dear, here i go again in not respecting cultural differences... respectful apolgies to those who feel offended?)

Jeez, i feel like a Shill asking that?

Kindest respects

Rodinus

Well how is working hard working out for the American worker whom undercut the entitled Europeans working out and for the chinese worker whom undercut the fat americans? You all drowning in money yet?

Originally posted by Ismail
reply to post by jibeho

 

The rights that you openly scoff at were fought for by the french workers, and they were paid for in blood.

You seem proud that your wife works 12 hours a day. Do you understand how pathetic that sounds ? In a few decades you'll be dead, and you will have achieved what ? Money ? That's paper. Social status ? Can't take that with you either. I fail to see what work ethic-related satisfaction could possibly make up for the extra hours that I spend with my loved ones, as opposed to mindlessly grinding away like a good little economic cog.

Being called "lazy" by brainwashed worker-ants like yourself is akin to a compliment.

I'd much rather chart my own course and take care of my own families needs than let the govt. make all the decisions for me and pay for all of my bills. With any luck. My wife and I can retire early! Our house will be paid off in 8 years, cars will be paid off and College tuition for our daughters will be taken care of based on the accounts that WE have set up for them since they were born. No govt. accounts. Personal accounts... It's called hard work, budgeting and rewards. I'm only 41 and could easily retire by 58 if I play my cards right. Hard work, savings and discipline. Sorry those concepts are foreign to you. It's called living BELOW your means.

Social Status?? That's a laughable comment. It's called hard work in the Middle Class. Personal satisfaction.

You must live in your parents basement while you wait for the govt. to deliver your check and your parents to feed you...

Relying govts. who are going flat broke is a FOOL's game. The govt. could care less about you in the end. They cut you off,,,, what are you left with. Scavenging in the streets for MORE handouts....

What actually disgusts me even more is that Maurice Taylor also said the following :

The French farmer wants cheap tires. He does not care if the tires are from China or India and governments are subsidizing them. Your government doesn’t care either… Titan is going to buy a Chinese tire company or an Indian one, pay less than one Euro per hour and ship all the tires France needs.

Well... Firstly i would like to know if Mr Obnoxious Taylor has ever had the chance to speak with a French farmer (the poor guys never have time, this is coming from first hand experience as my wifes family are in the farming domaine.)

Secondly, So, he threatens to delocalise to China and India because it's cheaper!

Who says he is not already doing so at the moment and also screwing up the future for the people in his own country?

Grumble, grumble, rant, rant...

Kindest respects

Rodinus

Some stereotypes perpetuate because they are true.

I am an International Tour Director conducting tours all over the world.

France has a distinctly different idea about work than Americans. This is true and is culturally derived. "Lazy" is a judgement, so I won't go there. The French see the world quite differently than Americans.

Americans take fewer vacations, often work two or more jobs, have little free time.

I think the French live life in an interesting way. They spend time with their families, spend hours at dinner and cafes rather than watching TV, enjoy food and culture. I love the French. God, their food is good. They know how to appreciate and prepare fantastic food.

But do I want to be French? Adopt their lifestyle?

No, I am anti-socialist.

Wealthy people in France don't like driving their nice cars into the city because they are harassed. I've been told this several times. Socialism argues that everyone should be rowing in the same boat, and I detest any form of government that denies creativity and the entrepreneur spirit.

We have America to thank for some of the world greatest inventions and modernization. That can't be denied. That's because we live in a country that spurs and encourages out of the box thinking.

All the French can thank us for their Ipads and Ipods and their computers and laptops....

And we can thank them for their food!

reply to post by MRuss

Thank you MRuss for your extremely pertinent partially correct comments, although I have a few nudges to add to your post :

I appreciated your statement on that the word LAZY is a judgment but unfortunately I guess some people cannot realize this!

However, concerning wealthy people driving their cars in cities. This isn’t really true. I live in France and I also travel to nearly every major city in France throughout the year and I can clearly state that in every city I go to I don’t see harassed rich people in their cars, but what I DO notice are the amount of rich people looking down their noses at the poorer classes!

The only city where you probably won’t see this happening is in Marseille because the rich are scared of having their cars pinched!

And, just a little extra nudge, look what the French invented :

en.wikipedia.org...

LOL where would Hollywood be without the French




Kindest respects

Rodinus

The anti-union propaganda machine is very well-oiled.

The people who own the media outlets are on the "same team" as the industrialists, and so the myth gets so consistently shoved down our throats that some people actually start believing them.

It is sad to see that people will fight amongst each other to level things down... wages, quality of life, number of leisure hours etc...

It all boils down to class warfare, but, sadly, some people just can't see it. And believe me, you are NOT on "their" team.

Remember when technological advances were supposed to improve quality of life by reducing work hours? Instead, they reduced the quantity of workers and increased the profit margin of the 0.1%.

How average citizens can fall for the propaganda spewed out by industrialists who were only too glad to dynamite miners in the shafts and hire militias to shoot at workers asking for decent wages is beyond me.

reply to post by NoJoker13


Hi NoJoker,

Although i understand your personal point of view and noticing as you wish not to enter into the debate with a constructive argument, may i suggest that you have a look at this thread? :

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Kindest respects

Having had the chance to actually live and work according to US and EU standards, I think people in the US are sometimes envious of how well people in Europe live.

Yes, there is a problem with EU sovereign debt and there has been overspending in some cases, but it has NOTHING TO DO with "socialism" or lazyness in europe, it's basic corruption and mismanagement, existing on all forms of government.

It's hilarious when people in the US try to distance themselves from the economic problems in "socialist" europe, when in the US the debt problem is way way bigger, you just sweep it under the rug more easily because you basically control your own currency and overall competitiveness, something much harder to address in Europe.

My general conclusion and learning from all of this is that life is not all about work; health, family and social happiness is not necessarily tied to vast amounts of money in a bank account, which generally seams like the mindless goal in the US.

lol Listen to all this Xenophobia and Bigotry. Do Americans work hard? Yes, they're very good little cogs in the wheel. Do the French work hard? I'm sure they do, but they haven't lost sight of the important things in life either.

Hilarious how people assume that just because you don't work like a mindless zombie that you take handouts from the government. Hilarious how people who don't know any better assume socialism = everything for free on the government dime.

Originally posted by Malynn
lol Listen to all this Xenophobia and Bigotry. Do Americans work hard? Yes, they're very good little cogs in the wheel. Do the French work hard? I'm sure they do, but they haven't lost sight of the important things in life either.

Hilarious how people assume that just because you don't work like a mindless zombie that you take handouts from the government. Hilarious how people who don't know any better assume socialism = everything for free on the government dime.

It's sad really isn't it and as you say, hilarious at the same time!

But unfortunately there is no changing some peoples minds and the comments written in the letter by Maurice Taylor will only add wood to the fire!

Talking of fires, i see its cold where you are, we have -3° here right now and it's only 18:35 Brrrrrrr

Kindest respects

Rodinus

I saw this today in a German newspaper... and it did not suprise me. I have travelled a lot through France, I have many friends there.. but they are kind of lazy.

Sometime I feel like I am completely out of this world as a German. France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece... somehow the whole mentality and the whole life style is so... hmm how to say it without hurt some feelings?... relaxed? This is why it will never work out with the euro

The only place I have been which is even more strict and controlled than Germany is Japan.

reply to post by Rodinus


I commented on the article so I'm wondering what exactly is constructive for this debate? I don't see much of one and commented, again, on the article in subject. Also if making the French workforce look bad brings more jobs to the states then I suppose the smear campaign works. Kindest Regards, the guy who could give a # about the French workforce.

Originally posted by Billmeister
The anti-union propaganda machine is very well-oiled.

The people who own the media outlets are on the "same team" as the industrialists, and so the myth gets so consistently shoved down our throats that some people actually start believing them.

It is sad to see that people will fight amongst each other to level things down... wages, quality of life, number of leisure hours etc...

It all boils down to class warfare, but, sadly, some people just can't see it. And believe me, you are NOT on "their" team.

Remember when technological advances were supposed to improve quality of life by reducing work hours? Instead, they reduced the quantity of workers and increased the profit margin of the 0.1%.

How average citizens can fall for the propaganda spewed out by industrialists who were only too glad to dynamite miners in the shafts and hire militias to shoot at workers asking for decent wages is beyond me.

Couldn't agree more. Besides, France swings from the left to the right, much the same as the UK and Germany, and Italy blah blah. And, as you say, workers were treated like blobs on the ground, and that's historical fact.

What's more France tries to hang on to its industry, as does Germany, and Italy.
I can't even make sense of what some American posters are saying about socialist this and socialist that, when they do not know what they are talking about, in regard to Western Europe at least. What's happening to the American industry? Take Briggs and Stratton lawnmowers/engines, or Strattec Security Corporation as it is now, a world leader in that field. Where I am the country's awash with them, and probably the rest of UK and mainland Europe, but they are all fecking made in China, not the US, not Europe. The big Corp sold out the US jobs, and left them with the crumbs to fight over, just as Billmeister says, while big corp yackys on about socialism, so that the last thing you think about is how did you people stateside end up with no jobs. Capisce!

So...
French workers actually fight for a better quality of life, and do not surrender their right to "live well" to please a "foreign investor"...
All I can say is, kudos!

Originally posted by NoJoker13
reply to post by Rodinus

 

I commented on the article so I'm wondering what exactly is constructive for this debate? I don't see much of one and commented, again, on the article in subject. Also if making the French workforce look bad brings more jobs to the states then I suppose the smear campaign works. Kindest Regards, the guy who could give a # about the French workforce.

edit on 21-2-2013 by NoJoker13 because: (no reason given)

Hey man have you fell out of your tree? This what he said had you read the article,

"Titan is going to buy a Chinese tire company or an Indian one, pay less than one Euro per hour wage and ship all the tires France needs," he said. "You can keep the so-called workers."
The guys stateside are not even in consideration, (unless you want to work for a dollar an hour)...no, even less to beat the Chinese or the Indians.

Originally posted by aLLeKs
I saw this today in a German newspaper... and it did not suprise me. I have travelled a lot through France, I have many friends there.. but they are kind of lazy.

Sometime I feel like I am completely out of this world as a German. France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece... somehow the whole mentality and the whole life style is so... hmm how to say it without hurt some feelings?... relaxed? This is why it will never work out with the euro

The only place I have been which is even more strict and controlled than Germany is Japan.

You haven't seen the link to the Guardian then? you do need to look, especially at the stats for full-time employment
In any case I have spent a lot of time in Germany, and worked very hard there and was very well paid, but Germans do know how to have fun too. They also have more holidays than in the UK, probably the most in Europe.

"The French workforce gets paid high wages but works only three hours. They get one hour for breaks and lunch, talk for three and work for three. I told this to the French union workers to their faces. They told me that's the French way!"

That's code for, "I can't exploit the French unions easily. That makes me so mad that I'll run at the mouth and make a spurious generalized claim and avoid doing business there." Personally, I think it is the Mr. Taylors of America who need to be outsourced. We need to stop doing business with them.


Many corporations and private companies use ethically questionable tactics to increase their profits. Even when it is recorded/demonstrated that their profits are gaining significantly, they claim they are losing money. It is these practices that are a major contributing factor to the growing trend of people's dependence on tax funded support systems.

For example, one basic tactic is to pay your employees the lowest wage possible, which is often the minimum wage, or close to it. It has been shown that the minimum wage, or close to it, at 40hr/wk is not sufficient to live on at the most reasonable, rational, basic level without some federal/state assistance. And that use of assistance increases dramatically if that worker has one or more children. Considering my state, CA, the minimum wage is $8/hr. At 40hr/wk the net take home is around $1000/mo. Yet a one bedroom apt. in a depressed neighborhood rents for around $500-600/mo. Then there are the utlility bills, phone bill, transportation costs (lightrail, bus, etc), and cost of grocieries. It's not a rational living wage. But this assumes one could even get full time employment.

Another tactic of unethical companies is to not hire full time employees. Why? Because an employee working part time will not accrue enough "time on the books" to qualify to use FMLA if they needed it. That's a win for the employer because it keeps people working even if they are sick. In some states it was a requirement to give full timers benefits like paid sick leave, health benefits, paid vacation, etc. This tactic effectively circumvents that, which is another win for the employer for obvious reasons. It also incentivizes the employee to pick up any extra shifts to make up for the lack in hours, whether or not those shifts conflict with the employee's other obligations or needs such as child care, little Timmy's birthday, a college class, or even sleep. In some companies you are required to accept a certain percentage of call-ins or you could be fired. Also, this tactic often forces the person to pick up a second or third job if they can, in which case it often puts them in a scheduling conflict between those jobs. For most normal people, this lifestyle/workstyle is unsustainable. At some point if the work hours don't change then most likely that employee will drop one of their jobs and seek federal/state assistance (that's our tax dollars).

And still, a third common tactic is to eliminate positions and distribute those tasks onto the other remaining employees. What's better than 4 employees doing the work of 8, and with no compensation? And there's another added bonus! If one or more of those remaining employees can't each do the work of 2 then the employer can claim that the employee is not working hard enough, efficiently enough, nor is completing tasks on time. This lawfully justifies terminating that employee (who was being paid a fair wage). A new hire can then be paid an entry level wage and be required to perform even more than the last one. That's a win, win, win situation for the company.

These tactics set up a situation where our tax dollars are literally subsidizing the profits of these unethical businesses, it is grossly destabilizing to our society, and it is helping create a welfare nation.

This is where unions come into play, good unions, not conflict of interest unions. Unions, as the name implies, give the workers a unified voice for negotiating terms of employment. Unions help keep down the use of tax funded support by negotiating for fair and equitable wages, basic benefits, representation against unethical terminations, etc.

If employers treated and negotiated with their employees fairly then there would not be much of a need for unions. But they don't.