Right Ascension and Declination and Astronomy debunks Astrology.

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posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 06:06 PM
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I was perusing one of my favorite websites SixtySymbols.com.

When I came across this video for Right Ascension and Declination. Which is just the coordinates used for locating an object in space (analogous to latitude and longitude). It is interesting in and of itself. But, it is key to understand exactly why astrology just plain doesn't work.

Then at about the 4:40 mark this proffessor explains the problems with astrology and the associated astrological signs. I'll say more specifically western astrology, because I am not familiar with any other types of astrology. I just don't buy in to that kind of stuff.

Anyway I am always interested in hearing science shoot down hocus pocus stuff like this so I am sharing it here.

Enjoy...




posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 06:27 PM
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reply to post by watchitburn
 


Explanation: Uhmmm?


Ok then we must invoke Descartes philosophy 1st as that is the base of Quantum Mechanics as it deals with the observer only and removes all apriori axioms.

At that scale ... one is unique and all alone and the only thing that one can be sure of that does exist and the rest is merely a reflection of the inherent biases one projects.

I do NOT believe in any facts ok ... the sun will rise tommorow as it did today regardless of whether I am alive or trust in it or not ... belief is not required at all since it doesn't affect what I know.

Astrology is purely a belief ideology and consequently has little if anything to do with facts.

Using facts to undermine beliefs is pointless.

Personal Disclosure: Without any pure beliefs one is unable to create anything.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 06:38 PM
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It doesn't really do that at all. This guy is taking stuff literally. Astrology isn't about planet rays zapping people and causing certain behaviors. The actual constellations are a full sign off anyway. In other words, because of the precession of the equinoxes Aries isn't even in the same place it was 2000 years ago. Astrology is a symbolic system based on the Earth, not the planets or stars.
edit on 2/19/2013 by schuyler because: spelling



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 06:50 PM
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reply to post by OmegaLogos
 


Thank you for contributing.

You make a good point in regard to facts and beliefs. I can understand that point of view, even if I don't entirely agree with it.

I am curious about this statement though:


Personal Disclosure: Without any pure beliefs one is unable to create anything.

Can you expand on this? Because I think I am missing your meaning here. I have created stuff, and I don't believe in anything I can't observe with my physical senses.
But then, I don't think you intended that to be taken in a literal context.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 07:34 PM
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reply to post by schuyler
 


You may be right.

As I said in the OP, I am not very familiar with Astrology. And it would seem many people who think they are, are not. Because everyone I have ever had a conversation with about it, only talked about stars and signs and symbols. I don't remember anyone ever mentioning the Earth.

Maybe I enjoyed the video because I also tend to think of things in a literal sense? It's possible. But it seemed to me that the guy was very straightforward with his arguments.

I suppose I will have to go look into this more now.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 07:43 PM
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Seems to be the difference in Sidereal and Tropical Astrology which he means in his example in the video.
The Tropical and Sidereal Zodiacs
Sidereal and tropical astrology


What is the difference between the Sidereal and Tropical Zodiacs?


In a nutshell a technical definition could be:

The Tropical Zodiac is the position of the sun referenced against the earth’s horizon at a particular locale which gives you the seasons as a measure of the flow of time. The framework for the seasons is the solstices and equinoxes.

The Sidereal Zodiac is the position of the sun referenced against the star background, as a measure of the flow of time. The framework for the star background is the constellations the sun passes in front of.

We can measure time by the seasons (tropical time

edit on 2/19/2013 by indigothefish because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 07:54 PM
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I'm not saying I don't believe this man but let me state this. Astrology is something older than this individual and can be traced back to the start of man. As we have always looked to the stars for answers, our Ancient Ancestors charted the heavens more accurately than even with the best of our technological advancements and our brightest minds. Nor can we replicate what the Ancients have done before us. So pardon me if i'm not one to use logic where logic is unnecessary, some things just are.

Having my birth chart done by an old school astrologist, I was actually very impressed as her information on me was spot on. Her books were also legitametly older than this gentleman and was passed down through 3 generations. No google, no half arse Astrology reading sight. "The Real Deal"

So please don't judge the whole because there are more spoiled apples than golden delicious.

Your birth chart is unique to "you" and nobody has a birth chart like you. It's like your thumb print on the universe.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 08:01 PM
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reply to post by OmegaLogos
 


Well...the SUN will NOT rise tomorrow as it is the Earth that is turning here. This I believe is the nature of this issue as it is about perspective more so than specifics.

Now I can't make an arguement in defense of a proof of Astrology as this is impossible. But neither can I definitively prove that Astrology has no merit in any form.

Such is the nature of something being subjective.

Split Infinity



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 08:14 PM
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reply to post by SplitInfinity
 


So then do we discredit the gentleman in the video? I can't say that either but therein may lie the issue. We always look for a scientifc answer in regards to reasoning, but sometimes I believe the answer's aren't so complicated. Us as human's create complications with our reasoning. If something like Astrology can be traced back to the dawn of civilizations why use logic when they seemed to have a better grasp on the cosmos than us today and all our advancements?

Just thinking out loud~



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 08:20 PM
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reply to post by sulaw
 


All science is or the Scientific Method is...a way using observation, experimentation and logical deduction to establish the REALITY of what something might be. It also leaves room for the unknown...at this time.

Nothing....and I mean....NOTHING cannot be brought to an understanding using this method as long as it is within our current elolutionary state of mental development to be so.

Split Infinity



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by SplitInfinity
 


I couldn't agree more, nor was I actually challenging you on your post, as this one was elloquently put as well and follow's my current thought process on these matters.

I just really wanted to move the forum along and see where it leads.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 08:28 PM
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reply to post by sulaw
 


Although Astrology tends to have it's issues as far as it's veracity....there is a very quantifiable Quantum Mechanics association to Psychic Ability.

This is most likely due to the transfer or exchange of specific Quanta within Protons and Neutrons to their respective doubles in a Divergent Universal Reality.

Split Infinity



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 08:33 PM
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reply to post by SplitInfinity
 


So then is psychic ability directly related to Astrology? As I know parallel dimensions are actually mathematically possible, the science in understanding why these psychic phenomenon occurs is next to none. (These are the questions that keep my mind working at night)

I.E. When there's a full moon and mercury goes into retrograde, individuals seem to become more confrontational and apt to argue and say thing in a week or 2 they might regret~ (common among astrology lore)



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 08:41 PM
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reply to post by sulaw
 


OK...it's Split's Pet Peave Time.

What you are refering to when you mentioned Alternate Dimensions or anything using the word Dimension when refering to another reality....what you should be saying is Alternate Divergent Universal Reality.

Hollywood has used the term Alternate Dimension or Another Dimension to represent....EXTREMELY INCORRECTLY I MIGHT ADD...an Alternate Divergent Universal State.

Dimension...is simply a term of Geometry as when one say's...another dimension...all this is saying is for instance...in order to get the volume of a sphere...we need to another dimension along with length and width as these will only give us the Area of a Sphere.

Our Universe and all Matter in it needs 10 or 11 Dimensional States MINIMUM just for Matter to exist.

Split Infinity



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 08:53 PM
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reply to post by SplitInfinity
 





What you are refering to when you mentioned Alternate Dimensions or anything using the word Dimension when refering to another reality....what you should be saying is Alternate Divergent Universal Reality.


Yes you are correct and my apologies on using crude lamen terms as Alternate Divergent Universal Reality just entered as the "Official" definition to our discussion.



Hollywood has used the term Alternate Dimension or Another Dimension to represent....EXTREMELY INCORRECTLY I MIGHT ADD...an Alternate Divergent Universal State.


This is very correct but for any of those who only know this as Alternate Dimension (Which I thought I stated Parallel Dimension which is how it was stated by some crazy scientist on the science channel) I wanted to keep it an easy read and didn't know I was hitting a nerve on bad terminology~



Our Universe and all Matter in it needs 10 or 11 Dimensional States MINIMUM just for Matter to exist.


With what you said here is it actually wrong to state something as an alternate dimension as matter would not be the same the progession to the 10 or 11 dimensional states you said?

Given American English and it's 10 to 11 different meanings for a word I can undestand the pet peve and know that wasn't what I was trying to incite.

Note: I will never say alternate or parallel dimension to you again. Alternate Divergent Universal Reality will replace.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 08:59 PM
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reply to post by sulaw
 


I think I either was not clear or we had a misunderstanding on the 10 11 thing.

I was saying that in order for Matter...and Quanta as well...to exist in our Universe....it must have at a MINIMUM 10 or 11 Dimensional States. Continued....

Split Infinity



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 09:07 PM
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reply to post by SplitInfinity
 


I think I fudged how I stated my last response as well.

Is Matter and Quanta projected in the same manor throught these 10 to 11 dimensional states? Or is the Dimensional state of matter where the Alternate Divergent Universal Reality seperate. How it projects itself in our 3d Alternate Divergen Universal Reality would be fair resoning this is the 3rd dimension as matter takes the form in 3d.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 09:11 PM
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reply to post by sulaw
 


To expound....it is highly probable that we exist as but one Universal Reality in a Multiverse and a Multiversal System. This is consistent with Quantum Mechanics.

Our Universe is most likely ONE Universal Reality of INFINITE Divergent Universal Realities that are within one specific group of Infinite Groups within the Multivese.

As an analogy....the Multiverse is a Infinite Forest of Trees and each tree represents a specific Universal Group and each branch upon these trees represents a Universe and there are Infinite Branches upon each tree and infinite trees.

Each Tree is comprised of Infinite Divergent Universal Realities that branch off one another based upon probability and infinite diversity in infinite combinations.

Our Universe is but one branch on one tree and each branch or Divergent Universal Reality has the same Physics, the same life, same planets if not destroyed by events...but it contains every possible combination of events that could exist...thus every possible version of you and me exist...but each Divergent Universe on this tree have the same physical rules of reality.

Each other Tree and infinite branches or Divergent Universes specific to that tree...or Universal Group...have completely different REALITIES and Physics or even Laws and Constructs we cannot even understand or classify as they are so alien in nature that we cannot have the perspective to relate to them. Thus a Universal Reality of One Branch on one Tree does not have the same Physical or Intangible LAWS of a Branch or Universal Reality upon another tree or different Universal Group....Continued

Split Infinity



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 09:14 PM
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reply to post by SplitInfinity
 


So before we went onto offical terminology I asked:

Then is psychic ability/phenomenon directly related to Astrology? Alternate Divergent Universal Realities are actually mathematically possible, the science in understanding why these psychic phenomenon occurs is next to none.

I.E. When there's a full moon and mercury goes into retrograde, individuals seem to become more confrontational and apt to argue and say thing in a week or 2 they might regret~ (common among astrology lore)
They also say not to make any major financial decisions during the time Mercury enters and exits retrograde as bad decisions are typically made during this time.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 09:17 PM
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reply to post by sulaw
 


You see...Matter cannot exist in only 3-D...it cannot exist in only 4-D.

Matter is COMPLETELY comprised of Quantum Particle/Wave Forms such as Quarks, Leptons, Mesons, Glueons, Electrons...etc...

Thus all Matter and all particles of Matter such as Neutrons and Protons....are completely comprised of Quanta...thus all particles either orbiting outside the Atomic Nucleus as well as making up the Atomic Nucleus are ENERGY.

For Quantum Mechanics to work we need at least 10 or 11 Dimensional States.

Split Infinity



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