Colo. House passes gun-control measures

I can see most gun and ammo manufactures
leaving america.
That would but a great deal of money going out of america.

any one know how much money is made from guns and ammo?

You can't have a revolution without something to revolt over....I have no intention in changing anything about what I own, no doubt MILLIONS of others....the lines in the sand have been drawn. Perhaps the laws are just passed so law abiding citizen MUST change to become non law abiding citizens. Our tax dollars at work folks!

reply to post by Tw0Sides


Excuse me?

A company attempting to blackmail the government?

What stalinesque regime are you from again?

Do you enjoy waiting in line for bread?

Seriously?

Get freaking real dude if you knew any LESS about business and the founding principles this country was built upon I'd just utterly ignore your comment, but maybe just maybe you'll read this message and think for a moment or two.

1. Magpul was NOT IN ANY WAY attempting to blackmail anyone. See in the REAL WORLD us rational adults who can't be swayed by cheap fear tactics live in it's a well known fact that businesses not only have the CHOICE but also the OBLIGATION to do what is best for their business.

2. This succinctly put means that when a company now finds itself in soon to be hostile territory there are some distinct actions it MUST take if it wants to survive as a viable commercial entity.
A: It must first do everything in it's power to avert said hostile acts that would cripple and or kill their business.
i. Magpul did this by making it well known that IF they continued in their course of action it would have
VERY REAL financial and political ramifications for everyone involved.
B: It must do this because being forced to move a MULTI MILLION dollar company that directly or indirectly
brings even more money into the local economy is a large and expensive undertaking.
C: Magpul HAD NO CHOICE but to take this course of action for any number of reasons.
i. First off if Magpul did not make this statement, and/or now does not follow through they will see a
massive drop in their sales from all of the people out there that understand the concept of voting with
one's wallet. Ask me when the last time was that I bought ANYTHING manufactured in California, New
York or Illinois was? I can tell you honestly and truthfully it's been ever since they crossed the line in the
sand that is stripping law abiding citizens of rights they are GUARANTEED by the constitution. Is this
sometimes inconvenient? Oh you betcha! My girlfriend just rolls her eyes at me every time we pick up a
package of something we want to try and I read the back of the label then calmly set the item back on
the shelf and look for something equivalent made in a FREE state. As a supposed free citizen it is not
just your RIGHT but your duty to protest what you see as injustice in ANY and EVERY way possible.
One of the best ways to do this in a pseudo capitalist society is to hit offenders where it hurts them the
most, THEIR WALLET!
D: Magpul was also very shrewd to make this announcement for a number of reasons.
i. In case you didn't know it the state of Colorado is in a SEVERE budget crisis. To the point where they
are closing down prisons and other things that they really can't afford to operate but are otherwise
necessary and vital to society.
ii. It also shows they care enough about every business the second and third order effects of their
departure will affect. In case you were unaware Magpul plows a very large amount of it's profits back into
R and D. This effectively means that when Magpul leaves it won't just be those jobs and dollars the state
is losing but that there will also be dozens if not hundreds of other businesses locally that will now suffer
if not outright have to close shop because of this.
iii. It also sends a very clear message to their core client base that their corporate ethic cannot be bought
or bullied into bowing down to convenience or selling out to profits while the people they live and work
with are unfairly and unconstitutionally denied access to their products.

To close this out I would also exhort you to study history more thoroughly, particularly focusing on all of the bloody and violent incidents of oppression in the last 100 years, as well as the thousands of pages of supplemental literature the founding fathers were so gracious to leave us in addition to the constitution. Because even the "constitution is a living document" crowd acknowledges, when it's convenient, that we should follow the INTENT of the original document. The actions the state of Colorado has already taken, and much of the rest of the nation are looking at taking DO NOT FIT THAT INTENT.

Further if you REALLY want to impress me and learn something in the process first google states and municipalities with the most restrictive gun laws. Then google states and municipalities with the highest violent crime rates. Now compare those lists and tell me gun control works.

Originally posted by Hr2burn
You can't have a revolution without something to revolt over....I have no intention in changing anything about what I own, no doubt MILLIONS of others....the lines in the sand have been drawn. Perhaps the laws are just passed so law abiding citizen MUST change to become non law abiding citizens. Our tax dollars at work folks!

I have a feeling the federal government, and its controlling special interests, would prefer such a "revolution" to happen sooner rather than later.

Frankly, we may get to the point where the only way of saving the world will be for industrial civilization to collapse.

Its all part of the plan. A bit more than 15% of US land has already been signed under Agenda 21 precepts. An actual revolution would allow for a fast-tracking to a much higher percentage (if not all). This would likely be justified by saying it is done to "promote peace, preserve the environment so people can continue living in it, and preserve and protect our resources."

There will probably be "strongly suggested" guidelines on energy usage, and when and where we use that energy. This will be justified by saying something like "we need to be smart about our growth and energy usage. It is in all of our best interests to live in the most energy efficient way possible." Though, this will not be accompanied by technologies that assist in this. It will be done through resource and land allocation, along with "approved" high density living areas.

This is all part of Agenda 21, just ancillary actions to promote its success. Even if everyone on this site read about it, it would still go according to this plan. The majority of people trust that those in power would not do anything "bad." And that is a societal self-controlling mechanism that will nullify seeing these things for what they really are. Its amazing too, since its all laid out for the public to see right on the UN website. You can even get the Agenda 21 "book," though it costs some money.

Basically, this is all going to happen, and there isnt anything we can do about. Even in the Agenda 21 precautionary principles, they explicitly state that lack of scientific certainty on environmental impact is completely irrelevant. It shall not be used to postpone any action.

Edit: To add, I think the overall goals of Agenda 21 are not bad. The issue I have is that the actual plan has almost nothing to do with its stated goals. There is very little on actually making vehicles, power plants, etc more efficient, and it is strongly focused on the usage of the middle class specifically. To encourage people to "be smart about their energy usage," I suspect there will be a proportional increase in energy costs to slowly cut down on the amount of resources available to the middle class. Considering Agenda 21 has been going since the mid-90s, there is a good chance this proportional increase has been going on already..

You know, I actually respected Colorado quite a bit not to long ago, for the simple fact Cannabis became legal. I'm sure any rational person would agree it's ridiculous to outlaw cannabis and hemp. Having a complete and utterly failed "War on drugs." When in reality it should've just been called the "War on Cannabis." a vast majority of illegal drugs around is cannabis. There's really not enough coc aine, heroin, or other illegal drug activity around to have a "war" on. But now I'm disgusted with Colorado. I bet all of the Hippie liberals that were dancing in the streets because pot was legal, all went along with this gun control garbage. Pretty convenient the Aurora shooting was in Colorado also. I better not see this filth spread to my home state of Missouri. I'll be damn sure raising hell if that happens.

reply to post by roguetechie


Further to address your assertion that what magpul did and will be doing is in any way blackmail, I assure neither by definition nor intent is it anywhere close to blackmail. What Magpul did was calmly and through appropriate channels make it known to the Citizenry and the State Government that if they continued with the course of action they seemed intent on there would be very real consequences to their actions that would affect the lives of many Coloradans directly or indirectly. This is no more wrong than if I see you about to put a piece of pure sodium in your drinking water because you want to give it that extra pop and I tell you "you won't like what happens if you do that."

Now the REAL blackmailers in this situation are those that are attempting to ramrod idiotic and pointless pieces of legislation such as this down our throats. Every night on the news I see the subtle and not so subtle propaganda played out for an audience of millions. With each lurid story they are telling you "If you don't want it to be your child that dies next in a hail of gunfire YOU WILL give up one more bit of your freedom!" And like any good blackmailer will do if you give in to their first demand they will be back for more. Whether it's 6 days 6 months or 6 years from now THEY WILL come back again already KNOWING you will acquiesce and tell you again "If you don't want it to be your child that dies next in a hail of gunfire YOU WILL give up one more bit of your freedom!"

It is your choice whether to allow yourself to be swayed by petty parlor tricks straight out of the conman 101 class. Or you could take another route and become PROACTIVE instead of REACTIVE and get out there and do some research into what makes incidents like these happen, what the preferred targets of rampage shooters are, and maybe even what the psychological profile of a rampage killer looks like. It's very easy to fear something you don't understand especially when you are being constantly bombarded with a quick fix solution that requires you to take no direct action, but that does not make it EXCUSABLE. As citizens of a free country where personal choice and self empowerment are held up as pillars of our society it is not a luxury to be informed before you throw your support behind something but your DUTY.

In case people want to see the bill, you can find it here at the Colorado State Legislature (PDF)

Highlights:

-- There is a grandfather clause

(2) (a) A PERSON MAY POSSESS A LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINE IF
HE OR SHE:
21 (I) OWNS THE LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINE ON THE EFFECTIVE
22 DATE OF THIS SECTION; AND
23 (II) MAINTAINS CONTINUOUS POSSESSION OF THE LARGE-CAPACITY
24 MAGAZINE.

-- There might be an equal-protection case in the making here since they allow some to possess and manufacture but deny others; exceptions are tricky and a citizen could easily use McDonald or Heller to highlight this argument.

-- Serialization of the magazines....that is interesting.

I am not sure how this follows...

SECTION 3. Safety clause. The general assembly hereby finds,
21 determines, and declares that this act is necessary for the immediate
22 preservation of the public peace, health, and safety

How does this preserve the public peace, health, and safety? It is a feel good measure "hey look we did something".

Wake up, I am talked out

Originally posted by Tw0Sides

Originally posted by ElohimJD

Blackmail is forcing another to do something in exchange for not harming them in some fashion.

Not Quite there Buttercup.

Blackmail is the "threat" of harming someone in some Fashion.

ie: If you pass this Act, your State will lose these jobs.

Blackmail.

But hey , the gun lovers are willing to let anything slide, if it furthers their Agenda.

"Buttercup" That's cute!

Now on to the matter at hand. Buy a dictionary and USE IT!

First of all, they are NOT the "State's jobs", they are Magpul's jobs. Magpul, by law, is legally permitted to set up shop wherever they wish. If the business climate of a particular state becomes hostile toward their business goals, it is not only their right, it is their responsibility to move!

Dear God, it would be helpful if you had even a slight inkling of a clue prior to spouting off. Your embrace of ignorance on both the law pertaining the "Blackmail" and how business works is both astonishing and disappointing. What makes me even more sad is that "low information voters", such as yourself, are permitted a vote - and that said vote holds as much weight as one from someone who actually has a clue.

There is no longer any wonder why this country is swirling down the crapper!

Originally posted by Tw0Sides
Its kinda Funny how all the Gun Lovers are Mortified by the Bill Passing.

But a Company attempting to BLACKMAIL the Government of Colorado, thats Ok.

You guys are a Joke.

That isn't blackmail that would be that company exercising its First Amendment rights by seeking recourse with a Government that just destroyed its business, unless you have a plush government contract; you are exempt; funny how that works huh?

If I had a company manufacturing magazines of this size I too would wage a PR campaign with threat of relocation. So just as it is the Right of the Legislature to come up with these empty laws, it is the Right of an Individual (and in this case, a business) to let them know just how much they are going to lose tax-revenue.

reply to post by kozmo


Sometimes before I reply to someone who is being.. lets say "confrontational.." I will look through their posting history. If there is a strong pattern, I generally dont reply at all.

People are perfectly capable of addressing and debating opposing viewpoints without resorting to attacks, regardless of topic. If all someone does is attack, then you can pretty safely assume your time is better spent elsewhere.

Just sayin

Sweet, one more state I can add to my list of places I refuse to ever go because of unconstitutional legal practices. My hat is off to Magpul for having the fortitude to put their money where their mouth is and joining the likes of LaRue and others. Sad part is these state level actions are merely testing the waters, you can bet your paycheck that as soon as there is a super-majority in both the house and senate and a Democrat in the whitehouse that the federal level ban discussion will come back using the success in various states like Colorado, California and New York as grounds to why there simply needs to be a federal level ban with no sunset provision because "the people demand it".

Another step in the wrong direction, they will not be happy until it comes down to an armed
rebellion. God help us all.


Offtopic, is this post messed up for other people with the text in a seperate box below profile? How can I fix this and what did I do to mess this up......can someone send a U2U? Thank you.

Originally posted by Tw0Sides
Its kinda Funny how all the Gun Lovers are Mortified by the Bill Passing.

But a Company attempting to BLACKMAIL the Government of Colorado, thats Ok.

You guys are a Joke.

Definition of blackmail -

a. Extortion of money or something else of value from a person by the threat of exposing a criminal act or discreditable information.

b. Something of value extorted in this manner.

This company is not exposing a criminal act or offering discreditable information, it is exercising it's right to take it's business elsewhere should legislation be passed within the state it operates in that it deems is harmful to itself, it's customer base and more importantly the country.

The legislation is unconstitutional in spirit and by the letter to wit: "Shall not be infringed". I would offer that this company is not only not guilty of committing blackmail but is doing it's job as responsible Americans and business owners by standing up for the second amendment and freedom.

In parting...... U mad bro?

reply to post by ownbestenemy


What that does is effectively weed out owners of large capacity mags down the line. It is an excellent example of Fabian Socialist tactics being used, by doing something in increments so as to not scare the people unduly until one day everyone wakes up to the reality of the NWO and they wonder how it happened.

Originally posted by ownbestenemy

Originally posted by Tw0Sides
Its kinda Funny how all the Gun Lovers are Mortified by the Bill Passing.

But a Company attempting to BLACKMAIL the Government of Colorado, thats Ok.

You guys are a Joke.

That isn't blackmail that would be that company exercising its First Amendment rights by seeking recourse with a Government that just destroyed its business, unless you have a plush government contract; you are exempt; funny how that works huh?

If I had a company manufacturing magazines of this size I too would wage a PR campaign with threat of relocation. So just as it is the Right of the Legislature to come up with these empty laws, it is the Right of an Individual (and in this case, a business) to let them know just how much they are going to lose tax-revenue.

They could always retool for shorter cap-mags. There will be a real market out there for 15 and 8 round mags.

Washington and Colorado pass Pro Marijuana Bills, and then attempt to pass Anti-Gun Bills. Correlation?
Washington and California attempt to pass Pro Gay Marriage and Anti-Gun Bills. Correlation?

It sounds like Washington is the new Capital of a very specific political group.

reply to post by skynet2015


It sounds like you don't like gay people, and liberals 'like' Obama are against the legalization of marijuana.

To the people of Colorado all I can say is rise up and throw these bums out on their you know what's. Make demands be firm and stand your ground together. The one thing I have learned throughout our ordeal here in NYS is that I have met some pretty cool, nice, helpful people because of all this and even made some new friends.

"infringing on lawful gun owners"

Gun owners. This isn't the 19th century anymore. "Lawful gun owners" is the most annoyingly irritating tripe position of these types. What do lawful gun owners do with their guns. PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME. Carry them in their holsters? Fire them at gun ranges? Shoot wildlife, like anacondas? Oh wait! Right.....hang them up their houses!

You gun fanatics are weird. Find a new hobby, please. The notion that you really believe you're the protectors of freedom is laughable. That owning a gun is your inalienable right, that the second amendment, the ghosts of our forefathers are looking after you and your guns....wow.

"If guns are made illegal, the only people who would have guns are criminals."
Lemme understand something here. The shooters at Sandy Hook, Aurora, Virginia Tech, Columbine and others, were they criminals? Nope, not until they murdered everyone. But people in inner cities and other crime stricken areas, they are criminals. And people are offing each other every day in places like that. So they probably didn't buy their guns legally right? They're criminals, they must've stolen them, or bought them on the black market, cause', y'know, they're probably black.

So nobody really cares about everyday gun violence when its happening away from the eyes of white america, but when guns purchased legally that are then used by white people to massacre multitudes, it's suddenly, 'the government wants to steal our last bastion of orange camouflage freedom?'

Which raises my ultimate question: do you gun owning fanatics really care about anything, even the guns, or is what you really care about just the paranoia that inner cities will eventually come and get you once you've disarmed?

That's why you own so many of them too.....so when the inner cities do eventually invade your ranches, even your friends who don't own any can borrow one!