How advanced Alien societies may differ from ours.

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posted on Feb, 18 2013 @ 02:50 PM
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This has the potential to be a huge topic as IMHO there are most certainly millions of advanced Alien societies in our own Galaxy alone. But to keep it short I want to seek opinions on what for many is a taboo subject for many reasons, namely Eugenics.

The reason humans are as fit as they are, and as smart, is that the weak and sick simply died off, and the more successful food gatherers and physically/socially fit specimens went on to breed. This is the way things were until the advent of modern medicine. Now it’s a free for all and the long term implications for humanity, and more importantly the future health and evolution of humanity, is seldom discussed, again taboo.

Earth’s human population is growing fast and an older species out in the cosmos will have had to deal with both these emotive subjects. Modern earth societies have a very short term view on things looking forward maybe a few years at a time. As each country tends to do its own thing, along with strong religious views thrown into the mix, in the future are we going to be faced with the same decisions China has had to make in enforcing one child families?

I think an Advanced older Alien society may have strict laws planet wide to protect the long term survival and health of their species. The right to breed will not be a free for all for everyone, but a privilege earned either academically or physically or a mixture of the both, and strict quotas will be enforced.
In this way, evolution will continue as only top achievers will be putting their genes into the gene pool. Instead of taking pills to avoid birth, medication or some other procedure would be earned and given to allow breeding.

I would like your opinions on the scenarios that might exist on such a planet,
How their society might work,
Problems that would have to be dealt with,
And the general mechanics of how such a system might play out in practice.




posted on Feb, 18 2013 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by Donegal_TDI
 



I think an Advanced older Alien society may have strict laws planet wide to protect the long term survival and health of their species. The right to breed will not be a free for all for everyone, but a privilege earned either academically or physically or a mixture of the both, and strict quotas will be enforced.
In this way, evolution will continue as only top achievers will be putting their genes into the gene pool. Instead of taking pills to avoid birth, medication or some other procedure would be earned and given to allow breeding.


If they were truly "advanced" then they would have no need for such laws, as they would have nearly infinite resources to sustain large populations that span over thousands of habitable worlds.

If they did enforce such laws they could be considered immoral, as they would be taking away the citizens freedom of expression.
edit on 18-2-2013 by Openeye because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 18 2013 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by Donegal_TDI
 


One problem they faced when deciding on who should breed over someone else. Was what if there rich but there genes suck! What if they only have that degree because mom and dad had the money for it.

What if they only went because mom and dad bought there way through school.

Good genes aren't easy to find. Mainly because the means to finding them or accepting whats superior is a flawed system.

What if you knew someone who has only been sick twice in 3 yrs and altogether was only as long as a week at the most 9 days. Do you think they have adequate genes?



posted on Feb, 18 2013 @ 03:30 PM
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reply to post by Donegal_TDI
 


You're looking at it as if they are at least somewhat similar to us, but the possibilities are limitless. Even the simplest details of another life-form could be something that is completely unimaginable to us.

Even the simple laws of physics which many humans believe to be universal, may be completely different from the way that nature works on another Planet, in another Galaxy, in another Universe........

I just don't see how any of us could accurately describe solutions when absolutely nothing is known about the life-forms themselves, or about the World in which they may live.



posted on Feb, 18 2013 @ 03:47 PM
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reply to post by BrokenCircles
 


Watch how simple and easy this is.

If the dreamer doesn't reside on our planet the fact that the physics and mathematics are as they are is proof that what happens here is universal.

Maybe not every little detail but anything with the capability of thought and has an intelligence that evolved over a vast year. Has went through the same situations and growing pains we have.

Because every time you advance you trap yourself in a paradigm that makes it difficult to advance and create a new one.

It's like trying to jump in and out of boxes without getting stuck in one.



posted on Feb, 18 2013 @ 03:55 PM
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In Plato's "Republic", he suggests that society should be divided into three classes: bronze, silver, and gold. These classes, Plato said, would be maintained through a strict society-wide eugenics program where the outcome of breeding could be controlled by allowing only certain people to mate.

He also believed that children should never know their parents, and they should be raised collectively by the village/society.

So I guess what I'm getting at is that you don't have to imagine life on other worlds to see what things like eugenics do to societies.



posted on Feb, 18 2013 @ 04:11 PM
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reply to post by BrokenCircles
 



You're looking at it as if they are at least somewhat similar to us, but the possibilities are limitless. Even the simplest details of another life-form could be something that is completely unimaginable to us.


Well I believe that there very well be intelligent life forms that are very different than us, i.e. gelatinous blobs of protomatter capable of telepathic communication. However, it could be very possible that the biological processes that have taken place on this planet are just as common (I use that word loosely) as say other physical laws. The lifeforms may look different, but they more than likely would have similarities to lifeforms on our world.


Even the simple laws of physics which many humans believe to be universal, may be completely different from the way that nature works on another Planet, in another Galaxy,


Very doubtful. The laws of physics pretty much sum up how astral bodies exist, so unless you discover a planet the shape of a triangle I will defer to the science, as last time I checked all planets are spheres, and all galaxies are spirals. Sure there are many many things we do not now about the physics of the Universe, but we know quite a bit.


in another Universe


Well we don't know if another Universe exists, but if it did and at least had some connection to this one I would argue that the physical laws of that Universe would be the same.


I just don't see how any of us could accurately describe solutions when absolutely nothing is known about the life-forms themselves, or about the World in which they may live.


Very true, but we can use some of are mental faculties to wonder and theorize. I mean that is pretty much how we have made all the discoveries in human history.



posted on Feb, 18 2013 @ 04:14 PM
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As distasteful as the topic of eugenics is, population control will have to be seriously faced one day by humanity. It is very good and well to proudly acclaim choice for the individual, but that is an ideal. There is a limit as to how many can be supported on earth while preserving the biosphere. If we are to survive for 1000's or millions of years, preserve our health, currently without interplanetary or interstellar travel, choices will have to be made, and this will be thrust upon us, sooner rather than later.
Difficult decisions will have to be made.
My mindgame is that out in the cosmos some other sentient society has faced this and come out the other end with a workable solution.
I would like people here to hypothesise as to what these solutions might be, while assuming they are quite similar to us, and it is generally understood that the laws of physics are universal.
Migrating to habitable planets if space flight is available is one solution, but such planets are likely to have their own life. Do we exterminate and conquer to allow for an ever expanding population?
Or come up with a system of control that works, with checks and balances, if that is possible.



posted on Feb, 18 2013 @ 04:23 PM
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Always amusing when these subjects come up and people assume that intelligent extra-terrestrial civilizations will have the same concept of morality and the ideas about it as we do, as if morality was universal, which is ludicrous in my opinion. The aliens are either good or evil, right?



posted on Feb, 18 2013 @ 04:48 PM
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I think we should not always assume that growth of the species should involve exponential population growth. It takes two children to replace the father and mother. I think it's possible there are alien societies spread thin because an educated species tends not to overbreed. If anything, I'd bet there are species with genetic programs that try to boost breeding.



posted on Feb, 18 2013 @ 04:52 PM
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reply to post by Donegal_TDI
 



As distasteful as the topic of eugenics is, population control will have to be seriously faced one day by humanity. It is very good and well to proudly acclaim choice for the individual, but that is an ideal. There is a limit as to how many can be supported on earth while preserving the biosphere.


Well there is actually plenty of land to settle on on this planet. Overpopulation is not a problem right now, in the next thousand years maybe, but by than we undoubtedly have the ability to make the deserts green, and have artificial continents in the ocean.


Migrating to habitable planets if space flight is available is one solution, but such planets are likely to have their own life. Do we exterminate and conquer to allow for an ever expanding population?


It depends. Is said life intelligent? If it is then another intelligent race has no right to colonize their home world.

But if said life is simple then I say why not. The survival of intelligent species far out way that of non intelligent species. This of course does not mean they would have to exterminate the unintelligent life, they could simply coexist with them. This would be very easy for a race capable of traversing space, as they would not have to overpopulate the planets they settled on.

If the race has terraforming capabilities they would be in an even better condition, as they could just create artificial biospheres on planets likes Mars and large moons like the ones that orbit Saturn and Jupiter.



posted on Feb, 18 2013 @ 05:00 PM
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reply to post by jheherrin
 



lways amusing when these subjects come up and people assume that intelligent extra-terrestrial civilizations will have the same concept of morality and the ideas about it as we do.


Morality can be objective.

If a race has developed the capability of space travel they would have to be extremely peaceful, as the cooperation involved to achieve such engineering feats would have to be massive involving billions of individuals.

And if they did think it okay to just murder people for fun, than yes they would be immoral. Unless you believe it okay to commit genocide or rape depending on where you are born.

A Jihadist might think himself in the right for killing a bus full of children, that does not make him right.


The aliens are either good or evil, right?


Since such concepts are subjective, and (IMO) asinine, than no they would be just like us, neutral.
edit on 18-2-2013 by Openeye because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 18 2013 @ 05:05 PM
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With all due respect, all this is speculation.
Equal or similar results could be obtained by having a science fiction movie marathon.



posted on Feb, 18 2013 @ 05:13 PM
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reply to post by Druscilla
 


Really I thought this was a ground breaking thread...


Of course this is all speculation. No one has claimed otherwise.



posted on Feb, 18 2013 @ 05:29 PM
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reply to post by Donegal_TDI
 


Yes, You are right to be cautious broaching this subject...... It is a highly emotional subject, and considering the evolutionary instincts to self preservation, and preservation of one's genetic line, necessarily a difficult one to ever talk about in polite conversation....

Without devolving into accusations of Genocide, and the ever present Emotional Rebuttal "Well, then why don't YOU be the first example, and sterilize yourself!"

And honestly, from their perspective, I can't say that they are wrong... however, as a Scientist I cannot also state that they are CORRECT either.


The primary problem that broaches on our species, and I would imagine on every sentient species, is that Evolution, and the mechanisms of survival of the fittest are determined by the harshness of the Environment, and the defining characteristic of any civilization, is the fact that we necessarily ALTER the environment to better suit us.

Therefore, removing survival of the fittest as a Darwinian mechanism for population fitness....

Naturally speaking, this also changes the definition of "Fitness" as it were, in a Darwinian sense.

Unfortunately, the side effects of medical advances, is that genetic code that causes disease and damage is no longer removed from the overall gene pool, and becomes widely distributed into the population genome.

Now, while I personally agree that implementing population control (I.E. Eugenics) is immoral, and basically wrong.....

I cannot as a Scientist state that the REASONING behind the DESIRE for discussing Population control are irrelevant, or incorrect.

The problem is that in the absence of environmental dangers that might remove genetic related illness from the population, the population as a whole might become more sickly and weak...

Eventually to the point that we are no longer able to SURVIVE as a SPECIES without our medical technology constantly acting as a crutch to keep us AS A SPECIES, viable.

And this (Ethics, versus Cold Hard Fact) is a serious problem.....

Because we cannot ethically proceed with Eugenics programs against the wishes of Individual people..... because such an action would violate the basic logical morality that forms the foundation of Civilization.

However, we cannot ignore the future survival of the species...

I don't think, however, that we truly understand genetics enough to make any determinations, or headway on the subject at hand... as we would be arguing from a point of ignorance on the topic...

Look... it ain't pretty.... and it's fairly cold.... but the Truth sometimes IS cold.


However, I can understand reservations against Eugenics programs completely....

For example... what genetic traits are deemed "Undesirable" and who makes these determinations?

Are there avenues for corruption in the implementation of the Programs? Could it be used to purge societies of free thinkers? People who Question Authority? People of a religious persuasion?



Basically, in a roundabout way of saying it.... I understand your concerns, Friend... But humanity as it stands, (especially in light of how human power structures and authority have been corrupted for personal power at the expense of the majority) is not responsible enough, well informed enough, or truly mature enough to even really have this discussion in anything except private conversation....

We are not READY for a public conversation about the Facts of Population Genetics, Genetic Drift, Inherited Traits, etcetera... because at the current time, it would be too easy to use this discussion to further the desires for power of a small group of tyrants.

And far too few people actually see "Genetics" as anything other than Devil-Magic-Voodoo.

We have been dumbed down... we need time to wake up before we have this conversation as adults.


That being said, I shall be the first to Star and Flag your thread... because having a discussion like this takes BALLS, and a dedication to truth and honesty that most people cannot ever manage to see past their own emotions enough to ever attempt.
edit on 18-2-2013 by ErtaiNaGia because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 18 2013 @ 05:43 PM
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I would guess that an advanced alien society would have virtually no violent crime because every one has a laser gun and the punishment for any violent crime is to be eaten by the giant worm alien which has 72 rows of teeth and 4 stomachs.



posted on Feb, 18 2013 @ 06:49 PM
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posted on Feb, 18 2013 @ 09:03 PM
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posted on Feb, 18 2013 @ 09:40 PM
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Explain by what you mean "We" when you talk about adopting a one-child policy. I sure hope you're not implicitly stating that nations will not exist in the future when this will become problem, even though that itself is debatable. Simply put, a country should only worry about its own population rates. This whole idea of "population control" is nothing more than paranoid alarmism seeing as Malthusians have been we'll be overrun anytime now for more than 2 centuries now.

There are actual problems to worry about in the near future such as thermonuclear war and runaway technologies such as AI and nanotechnology.
edit on 18-2-2013 by Diablos because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 18 2013 @ 09:46 PM
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Originally posted by ContractedMercenary

Originally posted by Druscilla

With all due respect, all this is speculation.
Equal or similar results could be obtained by having a science fiction movie marathon.



Are you ever on topic? You must come from a country where women are not allowed to speak much, so you use the internet to just mouth off any airhead idea that comes to you!!! He never once said this was not speculation and u come in with your usual bitter tone and pop off with a scifi movie marathon,,, Your avatar is disturbing as well, i know that's a picture of you, and you can really see how cold and bitter you are.




It's wonderful to see how important staying on topic is to you considering you've done nothing but target a personality with your own personal vitriol.

The topic is speculation. The Science Fiction genre has a wealth of colorful illustration to draw from regarding "How advanced Alien societies may differ from ours".
What's more to say?

My contribution is entirely worthwhile, and on topic regardless how anyone "feels" about it.

Perhaps some people, however, enjoy the prospect where certain societies keep some certain members of said societies in controlled domestic slavery where they can't say anything that might not be liked.

That prospect sounds alien to me too; an entire society where mediocre uneducated mouth-breathers dictate what the rest of society has to like or dislike.
If there's an alien civilization like that, I certainly wouldn't want to have anything to do with it.




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