Iran confiscates Buddha statues to stop promotion of Buddhism

Originally posted by LightAssassin
You need to bring down your own government before you point the finger at others.

I think that most people are capable of pointing out the problems with both the government of the USA and the government of Iran at the same time. It's not a 'one or the other' thing.

The double standards people show on this forum astounds me sometimes!!!

The amount of denial from Iranian apologists on this forum astounds me sometimes!!!

Seriously .. it's one AP news article stating the fact that Iran is taking statues of Buddah away from the citizens of Tehran in an effort to supposedly protect Iranian culture. (like Buddhist statues are going to somehow 'ruin' Iranian culture? )

Post that one article with that one fact .. and the apologists start spitting venom and personal attacks .. and they try to sweep the information under the rug and deflect from the subject and say that the Buddhists 'get along without the statues' etc etc .

Hey .. they shouldn't have to 'get along fine' without the statues.
To say that they should have to is absurd (and cold!)

The law in Iran states that they should have religious freedom.
Obviously what the law says on paper and what the Iranian government does
are two different things.

reply to post by purplemer


that's just so bizzare .. I don't even know what to say to any of that.

Whatever dude. Just read the AP article and educate yourself as to what is going on
in Iran.

Buddhism is not a religion but a philosophy. There is no god in Buddhism so how is Iran suppressing religious freedoms? The Buddha is NOT considered a god btw. I'm sure we could find some articles of Asian Buddhas doing the exacr same things, if not worse in their countries. Myanmar is a good start.

Originally posted by DarknStormy
I'm sure we could find some articles of Asian Buddhas doing the exacr same things, if not worse in their countries. Myanmar is a good start.

By all means .. start a thread on how religious freedom is being threatened in Myanmar. People need to understand that this kind of thing happens around the world. A whole lot of people in this world are not allowed to practice the religion of their choice.

Originally posted by DarknStormy
There is no god in Buddhism so how is Iran suppressing religious freedoms?

Again -

Basic facts about Buddhism

• What about Buddhist shrines and images?

The shrine found in Buddhist homes or temples is a focal point of Buddhist observances. At the centre of the shrine, there is usually an image of the Buddha. This image may be made of a variety of materials such as marble, gold, wood or even clay. The image is a symbol that helps people to recall the qualities of the Buddha.

The shrine may also have such objects as a volume of Buddhist scriptures to represent the Dharma. Some shrines may include other items such as images, pictures or photographs of Buddhist monks and masters to represent the Sangha. When a Buddhist stands before a shrine, the objects he sees on it help him to recall the qualities that are found in the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. This inspires him to work towards cultivating these qualities in himself.

• Why do Buddhists bow?

In Buddhism, the traditional gesture of reverence to the Triple Gem is to place the palms of both hands together and raise them high in front, usually up to the level of the forehead. In order to express deep veneration, a Buddhist may bow or prostrate before the image of the Buddha, members of the Sangha and the masters of the Teaching. When a Buddhist prostrates before an image, he acknowledges the fact that the Buddha has attained the perfect and supreme Enlightenment. Such an act helps the Buddhist to overcome egoistic feelings and he becomes more ready to listen to the Teaching of the Buddha

If people want their buddah statues, then the laws of Iran say that they should be able to have them. However, the government of Iran is not following the laws of the land.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by DarknStormy
I'm sure we could find some articles of Asian Buddhas doing the exacr same things, if not worse in their countries. Myanmar is a good start.

By all means .. start a thread on how religious freedom is being threatened in Myanmar.

People need to understand that this kind of thing happens around the world. A whole lot of people in this world are not allowed to practice the religion of their choice.

The whole point is Buddhism is not a religion. It wasn't inspired by any god. As much as it does have some great aspects to the teachings, I cannot see how this is suppressing religious freedoms. The Buddha isn't a divine god, only an Idle created for a certain man made teaching.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by mideast
Dude I am Iranian.
... you have been much influenced by your MSM.

The media in Iran is STATE RUN. I'm sure that YOU have been influenced by your media as much, or more likely even more, than anyone in the USA. Television .. print media .. the internet ...

Which reminds me .. Wall Street Journal - Iran's Censors Tighten Grip

Iran hasn't been shy about its bids to monitor, filter and block content on the Internet. Now it has taken the next leap, turning online censorship into an institution.

In the past week, the government has announced it has formed a high council dedicated to cleansing the country's Internet of sites that threaten morality and national security, launching what amounts to a centralized command structure for online censorship.

The Supreme Council of Cyberspace, created by decree last week by Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, includes heads of intelligence, militia, security and the powerful Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, as well as media chiefs. Charged with supervising all cyberactivity, it will have the power to enact laws, according to state media.

We've had Iranian government puppets on this site previously.
I'm sure it won't be the last time.

You talk about his media being controlled and what do you bring out to back it up? The Wall Street Journal.

reply to post by mideast

I know that it is said that American people have more freedom.

Women aren't forced into wearing hijab here
Women can take the same college classes as men
Women can travel without a man's permission
It's not illegal to be gay
We can practice what ever religion we want
We can diss the government and not go to jail (just look at this site)
We can say whatever we want unless its threatening or libelous

gerarddirect.com...

I know an Iranian American who is so glad her parents left during the revolution so that she can actually be FREE.

America has its issues and all but I'm pretty sure if you lived here for awhile you'd like it better than Iran, unless you're ultra indoctrinated into Islam.

You got to open your eyes and realize criticizing your government isn't a bad thing. Maybe you're too afraid to do so...I dunno.

Any theocracy sucks. Man should not be ruled by religion.

Originally posted by LightAssassin
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

You forget that the US and UK paid for, and arranged, a coup d'etat that overthrew a democratically elected government in Iran in 1953 to stop them from nationalising their oil.......and you want to speak of why the situation is the way it is now!!!!!

No!
No no no! Bad!
You cannot overlook a crime because 'Merica once did something bad in your mind, therefore anything done is justified because of that.
All nations try to influence other nations to be compliant with their wishes. Some do it through bribery, negotiations, war, trade, and influence. big flipping woop..this has been going on since the time of Babylon.
You cannot suggest that the removal of peoples liberties and rights is somehow connected to something that happened 60 years ago.
Simplistic and stupid..this is the mindset of the elderly and insane over there.

Why do you think the Arab spring has happened? People's freedom? Oh please....You are blind if you think that this isn't coordinated by the west...and the same is happening to Iran.

The "arab spring" is a lightning rod of the people will that is spreading across the middle east.
What to know how you can be sure its not just some manufactured CIA thing? We would have removed Mumby and installed Fonzi over in Egypt..not someone a bit hostile towards the west.
So ya...your incorrect simply on view of the outcome.
But I do agree with one thing you accidently said..the middle east in general does want to adopt more western culture.
And theres not a damn thing you or any of the other old school establishment can do.
Steal statues, barbies, and anything else..hell, sew peoples eyes shut and shut the internet off...the west will find a way to keep influencing.
Because I don't believe in war.

unless...

its a culture war.

Can I then ask you.....Why is Saudi Arabia given a free ride? They can pass go, they can collect $200.00? It's because they're in the US back pocket....

You need to bring down your own government before you point the finger at others. The double standards people show on this forum astounds me sometimes!!!

Saudi Arabia are America's allies. heh, just kidding. Actually we see eye to eye on this. Totally just paid off tyrants. But, they are "our" tyrants...so that makes them better (snickers).
Frankly...SA has way too much sway over global oil production/prices. If we were to truly slap them, the people would end up paying triple for a gallon of fuel over here, and suddenly the politicians in charge would be all but crucified because of it..so, standing up for a principle all the time is political suicide. I don't blame the government here fully It is a mix of circumstance, low info voters, and ya..corruption on the upper end.

Once we have alternative fuels..then we can discuss hard ball.

reply to post by WaterBottle


So what.. She left, Iran can do as they please and they don't have to answer to the USA. Muslims are not forced to wear the hijab btw, that is some rights groups falsified interpretation. Even Western Muslims are happy to wear the hijab..



Take a look at the last 30 seconds of the video..

Originally posted by DarknStormy

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by DarknStormy
I'm sure we could find some articles of Asian Buddhas doing the exacr same things, if not worse in their countries. Myanmar is a good start.

By all means .. start a thread on how religious freedom is being threatened in Myanmar.

People need to understand that this kind of thing happens around the world. A whole lot of people in this world are not allowed to practice the religion of their choice.

The whole point is Buddhism is not a religion. It wasn't inspired by any god. As much as it does have some great aspects to the teachings, I cannot see how this is suppressing religious freedoms. The Buddha isn't a divine god, only an Idle created for a certain man made teaching.

Then tell me
Why are they removing Buddha statues in Iran?

Sounds like you should be sending e-mails to them considering its them that is removing it for religious purposes.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Then tell me
Why are they removing Buddha statues in Iran?

Heard of Idles? Do you see Muslims worshipping to clay carvings of Mohammed coated in Jewels? Take a look at the situation from their point of view.. It would look ridiculous to them.

Sounds like you should be sending e-mails to them considering its them that is removing it for religious purposes.

Even Christianity gets a mention in Islam. I don't see where Buddha gets a gig. To Muslims, this would be nothing more than worshipping a useless piece of clay of wood.. As much as I agree that Buddhism could be a great path to take, thats all it is.

Originally posted by DarknStormy
Muslims are not forced to wear the hijab btw, that is some rights groups falsified interpretation.

They are in some areas. Saudi Arabia for instance...most certainly. Other areas (Afghanistan pre-war).

Its not a religious thing, its a cultural thing.

This doesn't mean everyone whom wears one is being forced...some enjoy it, sometimes it can look good on people (especially bad hair days).
Its a bit 10th century for my tastes, but meh, I come from a culture of hair gel and bleaching..so ya, to each his own.
But I imagine if suddenly my government told the women they all must wear a baseball cap over their head, I would be a bit outspoken. Cultures evolve..they need to.

Incidentally, what are the dress codes of men in islam? what are they forced to wear in some areas? (actual curiousity)

reply to post by SaturnFX


Mens dress codes are something I haven't taken a look at but they are there.. I understand Saudia Arabia is a must when it comes to the hijab but while we condemn the practice in our countries, our closest allies in the ME can get away with it while other countries are blamed for it. I think the issue is a joke. What about womens rights to wear the hijab in France? How do you give women a right by taking another away from them?

Originally posted by DarknStormy

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Then tell me
Why are they removing Buddha statues in Iran?

Heard of Idles? Do you see Muslims worshipping to clay carvings of Mohammed coated in Jewels? Take a look at the situation from their point of view.. It would look ridiculous to them.

but you just got done discussing how statues and such are not of religious significance...
Idols are required to have religious significance in order to be just that.
And again, this violates religious freedom even if this was the case..which its not.

This is not some purist stance either. Cartoons have images of people...yet there are cartoons, claymations, and other things in their daily media with no issue.
This stance is just unprincipled insanity. It is a religious group that is clamping down on what they deem a religion because they don't like that religion..but clearly not knowing anything about it either.

Buddhism has no laws or whatever demanding no carvings of fat happy Buddha...so they do that.
Islam has no laws about not having these obscenely decorated golden and jewel encrusted mosques..so they do that.
I wonder if Mohammed would approve of these crazy extravagant mosques mind you...

Sounds like you should be sending e-mails to them considering its them that is removing it for religious purposes.

Even Christianity gets a mention in Islam. I don't see where Buddha gets a gig. To Muslims, this would be nothing more than worshipping a useless piece of clay of wood.. As much as I agree that Buddhism could be a great path to take, thats all it is.

edit on 17-2-2013 by DarknStormy because: (no reason given)

Buddhism is a path of life and enlightenment. It is, to a trained observer, a spiritual path...it is not a religion because it is godcentric..but it is "supernatural" because it leads you to identify something deeper than your flesh..aka, soul development.
And that is (theoretically) one of the tenants of most religions...spirit development.
As far as a deity...well, one could say that in Buddhism, it teaches we are all part of that deity verses it being some outside singular source...many ways to view it..it is after all interpretive.

But that's not even the greater point.
Either it is a religion, and Buddha statues are a religious icon/idol...in which case, the theocracy is clamping down on a religion by removing the sale and ownership of this..or its not, and then what the hell is the point outside of mind control police?
No matter how you look at it, its just wrong for any people to have to endure this.
Bomb em for this? no...but certainly get the message out to the people there that they really don't have to take it if they don't want. By vote or shot, they can get a government they deserve.

Originally posted by DarknStormy
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Mens dress codes are something I haven't taken a look at but they are there.. I understand Saudia Arabia is a must when it comes to the hijab but while we condemn the practice in our countries, our closest allies in the ME can get away with it while other countries are blamed for it. I think the issue is a joke. What about womens rights to wear the hijab in France? How do you give women a right by taking another away from them?

That's france.
They are "unique".
I don't pretend to understand their method of thinking. Lets just say that its not overly surprising that whenever a world war breaks out, everyone goes there first to blow stuff up.

They are like the planets trolls

At least you placed a source there. I noticed that you left out some parts that would explain this...I wish I could say I was surprised.

Under the constitution, Christian and Jewish beliefs as well as Zoroastrianism are recognized beside Islam, the official religion of the country. The law, however, says that, in general, the rights of all non-Muslims should be observed.

Some Islamists do not support production of any statue, since they view it as a way to promote idols.

In 2010, several statues depicted prominent Iranians, disappeared from Tehran city's streets and squares. Their disappearance was blamed on an unnamed group with a strict interpretation of Islam that bans the depiction of the human form in art.

From your source. I realize you have some inner desire to have a boogeyman, but, why don't you focus your attention on something that you actually know about? I wish I could help you out.

reply to post by FlyersFan

And it's funny that the Iranian government is afraid of some crappy little statues of Buddah that were probably made in some cheap warehouse in China. Iraninan government officials actually see it as a threat against the culture of Iran. TOO FUNNY!

Now I know you didn't read the whole article. TOO FUNNY!

reply to post by SaturnFX


I mention it because their development has been altered due to the wrong influences of America and the UK. I don't support any oppression yet the West happily turn a blind eye to Saudi Arabia's oppression....You can't, out of convenience, make a monster out of one country when it happens even worse in a country fully supported by the US.

Egypt are hostile towards the West in front of the camera's yet America is a supporter of the Muslim Brotherhood therefore behind closed doors I'm sure they're best of friends.

The Arab spring IS NOT a beacon of light. It is the 1953 Iranian Coup all over again, same strategy aiming for the same outcome. Either install a government sympathetic to western desires or destabilise the region so any government installed that isn't sympathetic is most certainly removed quickly.

Let's ignore Iran, instead let's demonize Saudi Arabia given they don't allow any religious freedom and continue to rule by iron fist, and are even the only true monarchy left on the planet....they make all the rules, they are in power and the people have NO say. AT ALL.

And finally, I don't agree with the removal of Buddhist statues, but the country of Iran is ruled via Sharia law, so to even have a slight amount of religious freedom is rather special.

Meanwhile, in other news, a hardline Sri Lankan Buddhist group is calling for a halal boycott.