Iran confiscates Buddha statues to stop promotion of Buddhism

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Reference the above post ... You know what? Never mind. It's not worth the response ... :shk:

Originally posted by WaterBottle
we're sticking up for the Iranians that want to decorate their houses with Buddha statues.

Yes. Backing the Iranian people who wish to decorate their houses with little statues .. backing the buddhists .. and discussing how the Iranian government isn't following it's own laws.

Originally posted by WaterBottle
reply to post by DarknStormy

 

The culture? Pretty sure we're sticking up for the Iranians that want to decorate their houses with Buddha statues. The tyrannical government is trying to interfere with their culture and take it away. You're the one not respecting the people of Iran.

You aren't sticking up for anyone. The Iranians don't need people like you holding their hands and telling them whats right and wrong in their country. The truth is this, its none of your business and whether you discuss it or not really is pointless.

I'm sorry but um, I'm never going to stick up for totalitarianism and human rights abuses all in the name of "culture".

Then don't support your army then hypocrite.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Reference the above post ... You know what? Never mind. It's not worth the response ... :shk:

Originally posted by WaterBottle
we're sticking up for the Iranians that want to decorate their houses with Buddha statues.

Yes. Backing the Iranian people who wish to decorate their houses with little statues .. backing the buddhists .. and discussing how the Iranian government isn't following it's own laws.

edit on 2/21/2013 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)

Article 13
Zoroastrian, Jewish, and Christian Iranians are the only recognized religious minorities, who, within the limits of the law, are free to perform their religious rites and ceremonies, and to act according to their own canon in matters of personal affairs and religious education.

Point out to me where Buddhism is a recognised religion in Iran? Maybe I missed where they printed it... I had another look and still cannot find it?

Article 23
The investigation of individuals' beliefs is forbidden, and no one may be molested or taken to task simply for holding a certain belief.

So show me where they are persecuting Buddhists or as you put it, molesting Buddhists? Don't you think monopolising Buddhist statues is molesting that belief knowing that most of the statues are being sold to Islamic practicing Muslims who are not engaging in the teachings of Buddhism? Ever thought that maybe these little statues are against Islamic teachings? Would you see it ok for Muslims to start showering their homes in crucifixes? Maye we should start a new line of Jesus on the cross and start sending then to Iran for all the Muslims to decorate their homes.

reply to post by DarknStormy

You aren't sticking up for anyone. The Iranians don't need people like you holding their hands and telling them whats right and wrong in their country

Um...I don't think you understand the situation here.

Iranians bought the Buddha statues, they clearly want them, but their totalitarian (theocracy) government is confiscating their property because it isn't Islamic.

This is clearly wrong. No government should restrict someone from practicing a religion or decorating their house in Buddha statues.

Very simple here... it's called freedom of choice.

The Iranian government is trash, I'm not really sure why anyone is supporting it.

The truth is this, its none of your business and whether you discuss it or not really is pointless.

There is a news article here and I'm commenting on it. It's my business if I want it to be. Get over it.

Then don't support your army then hypocrite.

How exactly am I a hypocrite?

It's not my army, I don't own it or have anything to do with it. It operates off capitalist interests, surely not mine.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Religous and cultural freedom is alive and well in Iran ... NOT!

Iran confiscates Buddha statues to stop promotion of Buddhism

Buddha statues have joined Barbie dolls and characters from "The Simpsons" TV cartoon as banned items in the conservative Muslim nation. Authorities are confiscating Buddha statues from shops in the Iranian capital, Tehran, to stop the promotion of Buddhism in the country, according to a report Sunday in the independent Arman daily.

Iran has long fought against items, such as Barbie toys, to defuse Western influence, but this appears to be the first time that Iranian authorities are showing an opposition to symbols from the East.

The newspaper quoted Saeed Jaberi Ansari, an official for the protection of Iran's cultural heritage, as calling the Buddha statues symbols of "cultural invasion." He said authorities will not permit a specific belief to be promoted through such items. Ansari did not say how many Buddhas had been seized, but that the "cleansing" would continue.

'Cultural invasion' eh? :shk:
Iran doesn't mind exporting their muslim culture.
But it sure doesn't want any Buddhist culture/religion in it's country.
Hypocrisy.
The 'cleansing' will continue says the powers in charge of Iran.

So in Iran ... no barbie dolls, no squirt guns, no open toed sandals for women, no Buddah statues, and don't be a Christian Pastor because you'll get the death penalty. Yep ... :shk:

From Buzzfeed .. things banned in Iran
Mullets, g-mail, gaysex, Valentines day, spiked hair, the DaVinci Code, grills (teeth), skinny jeans, tatoos, youtube, petcats, barbie, Harry Potter, George Michael, Kenny G, Batman, Jorts, Facebook, Cleavage, neckties, 300, studying political science, ponytails, rap, alcohol, pork, protein supplements, brightly colored clothes, pet dogs, mannequins

Were all different, for different reasons.

Case in point:

Infidel would go nutso in the absence of skinny jeans, cleavage, alcohol.

One of the posters in this thread would go nutso in the absence of barbie, George Micheal, and gay sex.

When will the people revolt in Irun?

Never mind Iran, when will the people revolt in the USA?

I am going to buy a little Buddha statue and mail it to the gov in Iran, just for a laugh.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I understand Buddhism. I even practice it. I also understand the laws of Iran and they DON'T protect people from PRACTICING it.....just BELIEVING in it.

Yes, it's not religious freedom....but that is the law of the country so people shouldn't have been practicing it anyway...

As for the rest of your drivel, I won't even bother but you are wrong in your 'interpretation', and let's be honest...this is just YOUR interpretation of THEIR laws, because their laws do not protect unrecognised religions from persecution for practicing it....only protection from believing in it.

It is you who is failing to understand this. You're on this war path, this blood lust, for Iran but there are no laws being broken here. Nothing is 'unjust' when it is clearly stated in their constitutional law what is allowed and what isn't allowed.

reply to post by WaterBottle


Idol Worship

[31:13] Recall that Luqmaan said to his son, as he enlightened him, "O my son, do not set up any idols beside GOD; idolatry is a gross injustice."*

4:48] GOD does not forgive idolatry,* but He forgives lesser offenses for whomever He wills. Anyone who sets up idols beside GOD, has forged a horrendous offense.

[39:65] It has been revealed to you, and to those before you that if you ever commit idol worship, all your works will be nullified, and you will be with the losers.

[72:18] The places of worship belong to GOD; do not call on anyone else beside GOD.

So heres a few examples from Islam of Idol worship and how they view it. If you bother to read the Iranian constitution you will see that Iran have a case when dealing with situations like this.

Article 20
All citizens of the country, both men and women, equally enjoy the protection of the law and enjoy all human, political, economic, social, and cultural rights, in conformity with "Islamic criteria".

So in other words if something doesn't meet Islamic criteria, it can be removed by law and the next article proves it.

Article 22
The dignity, life, property, rights, residence, and occupation of the individual are inviolate, except in cases sanctioned by law.

And this is what the Iranian government have done.. They are not persecuting Buddhists, are they taking statues off Buddhists? Why don't we see whether they are going to those extremes.. All I see here is the confiscation of statues from Islamic practicing Muslims.

Now Article 23 which I understand better than you think.

Article 23
The investigation of individuals' beliefs is forbidden, and no one may be molested or taken to task simply for holding a certain belief.

Firstly, Muslims are not practicing Buddhism let alone putting any belief into the practice. They are simply buying the statues. How can anyone use this part of the Iranian constitution to justify that the Iranian government are not complying with their own laws? No Muslims are converting to Buddhism to start with. They are simply buying statues which could be considered idols.

Again, are Buddhists having the statues removed from their homes? If so,then maybe we have a problem but I don't see any information suggesting that this is the case. I don't see how the Iranian government are doing anything wrong in this instance. If they were lashing and hanging people who had converted to Buddhism, then yeah I would certainly be on board but this is ridiculous and whether you agree or not with what they have done, you are not a Muslim, you do not live under Islamic law and you do not have the right to tell Iran and their people what is best for them and what isn't.

; Article 4
All civil, penal financial, economic, administrative, cultural, military, political, and other laws and regulations must be based on Islamic criteria. This principle applies absolutely and generally to all articles of the Constitution as well as to all other laws and regulations, and the fuqaha' of the Guardian Council are judges in this matter.

So obviously this decision was passed hrough the legal system in Iran and not by oppressive government officials who decided that they would go and steal some Buddha statues to piss a few Iranians off. Everything must be passed through Islamic criteria and obviously the Buddha statues the way they are being circulated do not meet that criteria.

Now I don't know about you but where are Iran not following their constitution or laws again?

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


The latter is certainly possible, by going into ones home and terrorising them for the truth. That would be tyrannical, but that is not the case in Iran.

Religious tolerance? WHERE DOES IT STATE THAT THEY ARE TOLERANT OF OTHER RELIGIONS? Only Christians, Jews and Zoroastrians.....No-one else. This is their law....if people don't like it they can move to a country where they are free to practice Buddhism. The same goes for Muslims in Western countries who try to force their laws onto Non-muslims, if those Muslims don't like Western freedoms they can go back to their countries where they are free to practice Islam within Islamic ruled country.

I don't have a problem with a country having laws that limits, or outlaws, the practice of certain religions. I just wouldn't even plan on living there.

Now, as to your question about Saudi Arabia, which I am sure you could have just researched for yourself:

The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is an Islamic theocratic monarchy in which Islam is the official religion. Although no law requires citizens or passport holders to be Muslim, almost all citizens are Muslims. Children born to Muslim fathers are by law deemed Muslim, and conversion from Islam to another religion is considered apostasy and punishable by death. Blasphemy against Sunni Islam is also punishable by death, but the more common penalty is a long prison sentence. There have been no confirmed reports of executions for either apostasy or blasphemy in recent years.[1]
Religious freedom is virtually non-existent. The Government does not provide legal recognition or protection for freedom of religion, and it is severely restricted in practice. As a matter of policy, the Government guarantees and protects the right to private worship for all, including non-Muslims who gather in homes for religious practice; however, this right is not always respected in practice and is not defined in law.[2] Moreover, the public practice of non-Muslim religions is prohibited.[1] The Saudi Mutaween (Arabic: مطوعين), or Committee for the Propagation of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice (i.e., the religious police) enforces the prohibition on the public practice of non-Muslim religions. Sharia Law applies to all people inside Saudi Arabia, regardless of religion.

reply to post by LightAssassin


Its called twisting the truth to suit your agenda. I'm sure if Israel were doing the same thing with Krishna Statues the Iran haters here would say something like "its their country, they can do what they choose". Because Iran have been portrayed as the Big bad Boogeyman, people tend to look at nothing but he bad and omit anything that will make them look half decent. But this is coming from a people in a country who allow pastors to urinate on and burn Korans..

reply to post by DarknStormy


I don't care about the burning of respective religious texts, in Islamic countries they burn the bible. In Western countries they burn the Koran.

In Buddhism they just burn themselves because that truly sends the most important message of all.

Originally posted by LightAssassin
reply to post by DarknStormy

 

In Buddhism they just burn themselves because that truly sends the most important message of all.

What? That they are just as crazy as everyone else is?

reply to post by DarknStormy

So heres a few examples from Islam of Idol worship and how they view it

Ok and? What is your point. No one should be able to force their religion on others. The people who have the Buddha statues clearly do not feel that way, the government has no right to impede on that.

If you bother to read the Iranian constitution you will see that Iran have a case when dealing with situations like this.

I don't care what the Iranian law says. I believe in freedom of religion, including idol worship. An authoritarian theocracy is trash and I can't respect it. Just as I don't respect the NDAA law in the USA.. It is trash.

Just because something is law doesn't mean it is right. Just look at all the racial segregation laws in the US. If I were alive back then I'd be dissing them as I'm dissing Irans tyrannical laws.

Again, are Buddhists having the statues removed from their homes? If so,then maybe we have a problem but I don't see any information suggesting that this is the case.

I don't care who is getting their Buddha statues confiscated. The gov has no right to take someones property because they think it is idol worship. They are stealing peoples stuff because they live in a horrible authoritarian theocracy.

So obviously this decision was passed hrough the legal system in Iran and not by oppressive government officials who decided that they would go and steal some Buddha statues to piss a few Iranians off.

You have really bad arguments. The NDDA act was done through the legal system in the USA but guess what...it's still tyrannical and 1984-esque.

Now I don't know about you but where are Iran not following their constitution or laws again?

I never said that they weren't following their laws as I could careless about what some authoritarian theocracy's laws are.

reply to post by DarknStormy

I'm sure if Israel were doing the same thing with Krishna Statues the Iran haters here would say something like "its their country, they can do what they choose". Because Iran have been portrayed as the Big bad Boogeyman, people tend to look at nothing but he bad and omit anything that will make them look half decent.

Nope, can't stand either countries governments. All garbage.

Originally posted by WaterBottle
reply to post by DarknStormy

 

Ok and? What is your point. No one should be able to force their religion on others. The people who have the Buddha statues clearly do not feel that way, the government has no right to impede on that.

And its Islam.. Something that you obviously don't know much about.

I don't care what the Iranian law says. I believe in freedom of religion, including idol worship. An authoritarian theocracy is trash and I can't respect it. Just as I don't respect the NDAA law in the USA.. It is trash.

Again, whats this have to do with religious freedoms when Muslims are the ones buying hese statues?

Just because something is law doesn't mean it is right. Just look at all the racial segregation laws in the US. If I were alive back then I'd be dissing them as I'm dissing Irans tyrannical laws.

But they are the laws whether they are right or wrong. Are you going to change them? No..

I don't care who is getting their Buddha statues confiscated. The gov has no right to take someones property because they think it is idol worship. They are stealing peoples stuff because they live in a horrible authoritarian theocracy.

No they are stealing Buddhist statues because they have nothing to do with a Muslims faith and therefore Muslims probably shouldn't have them in the first place.

You have really bad arguments. The NDDA act was done through the legal system in the USA but guess what...it's still tyrannical and 1984-esque.

Why? because I point out certain religious and state laws from Iran? I don't care about the US laws, we are talking about the laws in Iran.

I never said that they weren't following their laws as I could careless about what some authoritarian theocracy's laws are.

So in other words, anything the Iranian government does you will oppose because you despise them so bad? This isn't about buddhist statues, is it?

Originally posted by LightAssassin
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

 

The latter is certainly possible, by going into ones home and terrorising them for the truth. That would be tyrannical, but that is not the case in Iran.

That would be worse as far as tyranny goes. That still doesn't prevent the beliefs.

WHERE DOES IT STATE THAT THEY ARE TOLERANT OF OTHER RELIGIONS?

WHY ARE WE YELLING??

Please re-read my posts. I very clearly said I didn't know if it was or wasn't in-line with their Laws. Clearly stated my opinions were opinions. Clearly stated what my opinion was. You're inventing an argument for me.

if people don't like it they can move to a country where they are free to practice Buddhism.

That easy? It's often very difficult for a person, especially a family, to just get up and move to another country. For numerous reasons.

I don't have a problem with a country having laws that limits, or outlaws, the practice of certain religions. I just wouldn't even plan on living there.

Okay. Great. That's your opinion. We have ours.

Now, as to your question about Saudi Arabia, which I am sure you could have just researched for yourself:

Dude seriously what's with the attitude? I thought you and I were being civil and then you seemed to of snapped. Yes I could have researched it myself, obviously. I made a simple friendly request for you to share it with me. I don't know why it was interpreted any other way.

reply to post by DarknStormy

And its Islam.. Something that you obviously don't know much about.

Sure.

Again, whats this have to do with religious freedoms when Muslims are the ones buying hese statues?

Because the strict Muslims are trying to force their extremist views on moderate Muslims.

If a Muslim wants to own a Buddha statue, they should have every right to. If it pisses someone else off, oh well.

But they are the laws whether they are right or wrong. Are you going to change them? No..

Your point? I'm having a political discussion, not planning a revolution here.

No they are stealing Buddhist statues because they have nothing to do with a Muslims faith and therefore Muslims probably shouldn't have them in the first place.

No one has the right to tell someone how to practice their own religion.

Why? because I point out certain religious and state laws from Iran? I don't care about the US laws, we are talking about the laws in Iran.

Um....stating the US law was an analogy, I guess that went over your head.

So in other words, anything the Iranian government does you will oppose because you despise them so bad? This isn't about buddhist statues, is it?

I guess you think I'm some sort of right wing neo-con but, yeah.......not the case. I don't like Iran because it is a authoritarian theocracy. Them stealing Buddha statues from people is just a consequence of having that sort of tyrannical government. I don't really get what you're try to say.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


I'm annoyed. Everyone ignores these CIA/NATO generated revolutions. Everyone points the finger at Iran for being the bad guy. Everyone nitpicks at their laws.

I'm yelling because everyone seems to think religious freedom should be a given? Why? The fact that Iran allows even Judaism, Christianity and Zoroastrianism is quite liberal in my opinion for an Islamic country. You guys are hammering them for not recognising Buddhism yet don't acknowledge the fact, and even celebrate the fact, that they are liberal enough to allow the practice of those other religions. Their law does not allow 'complete religious freedom' and Buddhism isn't recognised so why are those people living there? Why have they been practicing it in the first place? Obviously Iran is even more liberal to the point that they were even allowing the practice of Buddhism even though it goes against their constitution, another thing that should be celebrated. Instead we should be saying "It was good while it lasted but the law is the law and what has been happening is against the law so either the people need to fight the government to get Buddhism recognised and entered into the constitution OR we stop practicing it or simply move country, or finally convert to Islam"...and not simply lambasting the government for finally cracking down on the practice of Buddhism.

The fact we're discussing this is bad form. There is so much worse going on around the world and we're here bickering over why Iran have the laws they have, yet most turn a blind eye to the real hardline regime, Saudi Arabia, who is a big ally of the US....and it's this reason which is why we're discussing Iran and not Saudi Arabia. It's why the people on this site are aiming their sights at Iran and not Saudi Arabia. It's why the Media is primed towards Iran and not Saudi Arabia. Finally, it's also why revolutions have been happening in every country EXCEPT Saudi Arabia....because the revolutions are a farce. I'm sorry for snapping but everyone expends so much time and energy discussing these pathetic semantics of religious freedoms in Iran when their are far worse totalitarian regimes in power, and being put into power, that deserve our attention.

I'm sorry for yelling, I'm sorry for being snarky, and ultimately I'm sorry that I can't convey my point better than I have.

Originally posted by WaterBottle
reply to post by DarknStormy

 

Because the strict Muslims are trying to force their extremist views on moderate Muslims.

There is only one teaching of Islam whether you believe it or not and you cannot chop and change the teachings to suit your own will. If you do, then you are not practicing your religion properly.

If a Muslim wants to own a Buddha statue, they should have every right to. If it pisses someone else off, oh well.

That may be the case in your country, but in someone elses who hold their religious teachins in high regard its not the case. Now that may piss you off also but oh well, stiff bickys.

Your point? I'm having a political discussion, not planning a revolution here.

The point? Its the law in Iran, deal with it.

No one has the right to tell someone how to practice their own religion.

No-one has the right to tell other countries what to do either.

I guess you think I'm some sort of right wing neo-con but, yeah.......not the case. I don't like Iran because it is a authoritarian theocracy. Them stealing Buddha statues from people is just a consequence of having that sort of tyrannical government. I don't really get what you're try to say.

The constitution of Iran is based off Islamic law and values. Funnily enough though, they have a very similar political system to the USA. If the Iranian government are Tyrants then it doesn't say alot for the government of the United States. Maybe you should worry about your own backyard before you go pointing fingers at a country 20,000km away.