I Quit! The Forced Slavery of America

reply to post by opethPA

Of course then you have to pay taxes and as long as you do that life is good, at least on that front.

You just made my point. Don't pay the taxes and its no longer "your" home. In addition to that, they may tell you what you can and cannot do on "your" property. They are the landlord, you are their tenant, nothing more. And so what if you were foolish enough to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to the bank for the privilege of believing you'd own it at the end.

And the fact is we are all one split instant away from a potentially serious accident or injury or a serious illness (the greatest cause of most bankruptcies) and there won't be any government chomping at the bit to bail you out when the bills come due and the insurance runs out because you are NOT to big to fail.

injuredworkersday.org...

Originally posted by Philippines

Cool, thanks for the fast response and the intro =). I understand you're conceding freedom is on different levels now? So you are not truly "free" according to your definitions? So let's start with some basics...

1. What do you consider the standards of being free?
2. Refer to #1

Again, thanks for your response, and a mature thought out one. I did have a list of questions living without "law", whatever that means =b

For me personal freedom consists of the following:

1. Can I expand or grow my education however, whenever and by whatever means I want
2. Can I read, watch or listen to whatever media I want.
3. Can I receive the medical care of my choice
4. Do I have the ability to control my own daily destiny
5. On a more materialistic level can I buy whatever I want whenever I want
6. Can I decorate the inside of my house however I want
7. Can I take vacations to where ever I want.
8. Can I provide for my family or those that are dependant on me

Most importantly

1. Can I , through my own choices and actions, live my life in the way that leads to the most rewarding outcome possible.

The expense of having those personal freedoms and living within the rules and structures we have is having a drivers license, paying taxes, using a passport to travel across borders.

By living within in the rules and structure setup by whatever society I live in I expect to have those freedoms listed above. If I was to break the law\structure by not paying money I owe either in debt\bills\taxes\whatever..by engaging in illegal activities then I would expect those personal freedoms to disappear.

Originally posted by resoe26

Originally posted by jhn7537
reply to post by resoe26

 

Well that's good because the world needs CEO's and Executives and it also needs all the worker bees. Everyone can't be the top dog....

This is true.
But the persona displayed by some of them... absurd.
Most of the time they don't understand that without the "worker bees", they don't make any money.

If you are a wall street investor minimal/marginal profits is not attractive to make the stock price rise. The management is forced to take risks, often reckless ones, to please their stockholders. In europe there is no "lets get rich quickly" frenzy. They have learned to invest their frugal savings and be patient to have a nice supplemental retirement IRA to their social security.

It is the american mentality that is at fault. Everyone is blaming the ceo's but a lot of the 5 to 10 percent is actually laughing at the ignorance of those who live on credit card debts and buy big cars, luxury homes or big vacations they cannot afford. Well unless you live in some big town and have some unlawful connections.

A lot of things are at fault. Ultra-capitalism encourages consumerism and nothing is free. That means you either have to work harder, get luckier, or just quit being a sucker.

Originally posted by opethPA

Originally posted by Philippines

Cool, thanks for the fast response and the intro =). I understand you're conceding freedom is on different levels now? So you are not truly "free" according to your definitions? So let's start with some basics...

1. What do you consider the standards of being free?
2. Refer to #1

Again, thanks for your response, and a mature thought out one. I did have a list of questions living without "law", whatever that means =b

For me personal freedom consists of the following:

1. Can I expand or grow my education however, whenever and by whatever means I want
2. Can I read, watch or listen to whatever media I want.
3. Can I receive the medical care of my choice
4. Do I have the ability to control my own daily destiny
5. On a more materialistic level can I buy whatever I want whenever I want
6. Can I decorate the inside of my house however I want
7. Can I take vacations to where ever I want.
8. Can I provide for my family or those that are dependant on me

Most importantly

1. Can I , through my own choices and actions, live my life in the way that leads to the most rewarding outcome possible.

The expense of having those personal freedoms and living within the rules and structures we have is having a drivers license, paying taxes, using a passport to travel across borders.

By living within in the rules and structure setup by whatever society I live in I expect to have those freedoms listed above. If I was to break the law\structure by not paying money I owe either in debt\bills\taxes\whatever..by engaging in illegal activities then I would expect those personal freedoms to disappear.

Excellent, thanks for the definitions =)

When it comes to being "free" (regional pluralism standards) there are many "standards".

On the below quote, to prove if you are "free" or not, kind of says you are not free? Maybe you are under your own definitions...whose "definitions" matter?

The expense of having those personal freedoms and living within the rules and structures we have is having a drivers license, paying taxes, using a passport to travel across borders.

For now I will stop communicating, my mind is away =b ttyl

reply to post by opethPA


I see you avoid talking about the federal debt and where are funds are actually going. A lof of people avoid mentioning their faults and only talk about the strenghts. Lets put it this way, I have no problem paying municipal and state taxes, but enormous problems paying for an overbloated military industrial complex that wages israeli wars at will and often and then drops the nuclear tax bomb on me that I should never have to incur.

The federal debt is 16 trillion. Obama and Bush have given 4,5,6 trillion in bailouts and the economy is no where near correcting itself. I don't think it will ever correct itself!

Lets stop talking microeconomics and start talking macroeconomics.

Donald Rumsfeld is/was an honorable man. He fell victim to the pentagon beauracracy, bush's stupidity and cheney's evilness.

I won't even talk about obama. Failure is an understatement!

Originally posted by jimmyx
society has rules, the more complex the society, the more rules you have. you want to sell hot dogs to the public, fine...if you don't sell all of them in one day are you going to leave them in the water until tomorrow? two days? sanitation and health laws...how many hot dog stands on the block? 1or 4?...how about juice stands?, taco stands? churro stands? coffee stands? 2 of each?...and how about if you owned a small cafe in back of all these stands? would that hurt your business? should you that has the cafe be taxed differently? who cleans up the sidewalk in front of your cafe? the hot dog guy? or you? where does the hot dog stand throw away his garbage and old water and old food? in the street? or in your garbage can? how big of a sign can he have on his cart? a huge one that hides your sign? can he play polka music loud while he serves his polish dogs with sauerkraut? can he have his 5-yr-old kid there helping? how about having his pit bull guard dog on a leash right by your entrance?
yes,...you had freedom back then, freedom to die from tainted water and food, freedom to step in horse dung in the street, freedom to smell piss and s**t from your neighbors outhouse....life was not all rosy and free back in the days when our constitution was written, it was filled with hardship, grief, and misery not seen in this modern era....get over it or move...vietnam, or the african congo has alot more "freedoms" than the US.

edit on 17-2-2013 by jimmyx because: (no reason given)

Yet it has gone so far it is now going backwards. The people the law has protecting us are getting kickbacks from large growers and corporations. We are less safe in the are of food now then if buying from old granny on the sidewalk. Burrito full of zebra and kangaroo, noodles made of old cardboard, toys full of lead.

reply to post by frazzle






I'm coming in here from a different perspective as I am in the UK. I do own my

home 'lock stock and barrel' and the small surrounding area which is my garden. And

yes I do pay local taxes which goes towards supporting my 'local' area. (emptying

refuse, keeping the parks and public areas in a good state, running of the library etc.)

I personally do not use all the amenities but am happy with the way my taxes are being

used for the area.


Before you say I am just a tenant on my land and cannot do what I like on my property

I have extended and added features and yes on the outside I have had to take into account

my surroundings that I don't make an eyesore, just as I am protected from my neighbours

making an eyesore to my views. I can knock it down and rebuild with the proviso that it fits in

with the surrounding area!! but on the inside I can have it anyway I like.

Me a 'slave'....NEVER

When you turn on your television are you free to watch whatever you want to watch? Yes.

You are choosing from choices individuals before you have already made. That, I believe, is the freedom that is currently possessed.

reply to post by Nicks87





The reason there are rules and laws in place for land/property owners is the inconsideration

of many toward their fellow men!!


For instance if you had a tiny cottage and your inconsiderate neighbour decided to build a 30ft

wall on the edge of his property right in front of your lounge blocking your view and light??

OR built a room with huge windows overlooking your bedroom or your private garden(yard)??


These rules/laws are in place to protect you from others AND others from you

reply to post by eletheia

And

yes I do pay local taxes which goes towards supporting my 'local' area. (emptying

refuse, keeping the parks and public areas in a good state, running of the library etc.)

I personally do not use all the amenities but am happy with the way my taxes are being

used for the area.

I have no idea what life is like in the UK but I'm wondering what would happen with your home if you chose NOT to pay for services you DIDN'T want? Do you get an itemized accounting of what services your taxes buy or do you just assume its all being properly assigned? What if you could choose where and how your money was spent to maintain and support your local community?

reply to post by frazzle


You have to think of land in the United States as leases which normally do not run out unless the land is need for collective which is all Americans. You have to pay to live in society which is taxes and if you are unwilling to do this you lose what the collective bought via Louisiana Purchase, Alaska Purchase or wars fought for it buy others. Also if your house is paid for you can take that because it is yours and if you move it that is fine but the ground it sits on is everyone's. Also you do get paid you just hope the tax sale which is by the County or Municipality is good to you but that is going quite a few years with out paying.

reply to post by spqrenki


The only way to stop the machine is to stop putting gas in it.

Originally posted by frazzle
reply to post by opethPA

 

Of course then you have to pay taxes and as long as you do that life is good, at least on that front.

You just made my point. Don't pay the taxes and its no longer "your" home. In addition to that, they may tell you what you can and cannot do on "your" property. They are the landlord, you are their tenant, nothing more. And so what if you were foolish enough to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to the bank for the privilege of believing you'd own it at the end.

And the fact is we are all one split instant away from a potentially serious accident or injury or a serious illness (the greatest cause of most bankruptcies) and there won't be any government chomping at the bit to bail you out when the bills come due and the insurance runs out because you are NOT to big to fail.

injuredworkersday.org...

The deed to the house is yours if you pay for the purchase in cash all at once, or after you finish paying off your mortgage to the bank. Then the municipality uses the deed as forced collateral to ensure you contribute to your community what is due.

The property taxes usually depend on the affluency of the neighborhood you choose to reside at. I know areas in new jersey and long island that paid $20k per year and other areas that paid no more than $5k per year for an average 2-3bdr home with a garage. The next factor is how many acres you own and the condition of the property.

Originally posted by jhn7537
reply to post by flexy123

 

I find it offensive to the people who were actually slaves... I bet the slaves of the late 1700's and 1800's would kill to have the lives today that you call slavery...

I love these types of arguments. Just because someone somewhere at some time may have had it worse than you, and even if your complaint is legitemate, you have no right to complain.

Ouch! I just chopped my finger off!

Hey, man. That guy over there chopped his whole hand off three years ago. You've no right to complain.

Originally posted by opethPA

Originally posted by Philippines

Cool, thanks for the fast response and the intro =). I understand you're conceding freedom is on different levels now? So you are not truly "free" according to your definitions? So let's start with some basics...

1. What do you consider the standards of being free?
2. Refer to #1

Again, thanks for your response, and a mature thought out one. I did have a list of questions living without "law", whatever that means =b

For me personal freedom consists of the following:

1. Can I expand or grow my education however, whenever and by whatever means I want
2. Can I read, watch or listen to whatever media I want.
3. Can I receive the medical care of my choice
4. Do I have the ability to control my own daily destiny
5. On a more materialistic level can I buy whatever I want whenever I want
6. Can I decorate the inside of my house however I want
7. Can I take vacations to where ever I want.
8. Can I provide for my family or those that are dependant on me

Most importantly

1. Can I , through my own choices and actions, live my life in the way that leads to the most rewarding outcome possible.

The expense of having those personal freedoms and living within the rules and structures we have is having a drivers license, paying taxes, using a passport to travel across borders.

By living within in the rules and structure setup by whatever society I live in I expect to have those freedoms listed above. If I was to break the law\structure by not paying money I owe either in debt\bills\taxes\whatever..by engaging in illegal activities then I would expect those personal freedoms to disappear.

All you have proven is that you are able to live comfortably within the system.

House slave or field slave you are still a slave. The only difference is how comfortable you are living.

Originally posted by opethPA
6. Can I decorate the inside of my house however I want
7. Can I take vacations to where ever I want.

My great grandma use to decorate her house with plants. What if you thought that the marijuana plant was a beautiful plant and wanted to have one sitting in your living room. Are you free to do that without the possibility of future penalty even though the action would cause no direct harm to another individual?

Let's say a technology buff wants to hit up Area 51 to see what they are working on because he is intrigued by what they could be coming up with. Does he have the freedom to do so?

Originally posted by Nicks87

Originally posted by opethPA

Originally posted by Philippines

Cool, thanks for the fast response and the intro =). I understand you're conceding freedom is on different levels now? So you are not truly "free" according to your definitions? So let's start with some basics...

1. What do you consider the standards of being free?
2. Refer to #1

Again, thanks for your response, and a mature thought out one. I did have a list of questions living without "law", whatever that means =b

For me personal freedom consists of the following:

1. Can I expand or grow my education however, whenever and by whatever means I want
2. Can I read, watch or listen to whatever media I want.
3. Can I receive the medical care of my choice
4. Do I have the ability to control my own daily destiny
5. On a more materialistic level can I buy whatever I want whenever I want
6. Can I decorate the inside of my house however I want
7. Can I take vacations to where ever I want.
8. Can I provide for my family or those that are dependant on me

Most importantly

1. Can I , through my own choices and actions, live my life in the way that leads to the most rewarding outcome possible.

The expense of having those personal freedoms and living within the rules and structures we have is having a drivers license, paying taxes, using a passport to travel across borders.

By living within in the rules and structure setup by whatever society I live in I expect to have those freedoms listed above. If I was to break the law\structure by not paying money I owe either in debt\bills\taxes\whatever..by engaging in illegal activities then I would expect those personal freedoms to disappear.

All you have proven is that you are able to live comfortably within the system.

House slave or field slave you are still a slave. The only difference is how comfortable you are living.

Slaves who believe they are free are the easiest to keep.

reply to post by frazzle





You get a yearly account on how the money is allotted to the various services....and no I don't

use them all take for instance *schools* I don't need them but my children and grandchildren

have used them. *Libraries* I don't use them now but I have used them and I used them for

public computers before I got my pc. *Trash* is removed weekly, but I only need it fortnightly

*Meals on wheels* I don't need that....but you never know I may someday


So you see its 'swings and roundabouts' and NOT all about the one person

when "live free, or die trying" leads strong willed men and women to act,
and many begin to die trying,
then those that live,
shall live free.