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posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 01:04 AM
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reply to post by bb23108
 






posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 01:11 AM
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reply to post by bb23108
 


I didn't know what else to say, but what you said, almost all the way through that post with the exception of the speculation surrounding what you thought I might have meant in regards to the Resurrection Life of Jesus Christ, that was off a bit.

Regarding Jesus' Resurrection Life (domain of heaven on earth, and beyond even to the nth degree, at all levels all the time as the light of life) I am absolutely convinced, for a whole host of reasons, that Jesus "ascended" to those hills yonder (see my avatar), with his bride at his side, maybe even a chestful of reparations for his ordeal (and to keep him out of town never to return again lol), and one of those perfectly tailored dazzling white suits worn by the two men at his tomb that the women saw - not angels but very very well dressed men, men who understood the true nature of his ritual and prophetic fulfillment who held it in the highest regard, so much so that they used to lever to roll away the stone thus playing a role in the ritual itself (would it not be appropriate to be well dressed for such a solemn and Godwilling, joyfully anticipated affair?), friends of Joseph of Arimathea, and by extension of Nicodemus.. And would it not also be appropriate to so equip the men among men Jesus in their midst upon exiting his tomb? I don't see why not. According to the story of the Road to Emmaus, well here it is, take a look


Jesus Has Risen

24 On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. 2 They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, 3 but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. 4 While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them. 5 In their fright the women bowed down with their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, “Why do you look for the living among the dead? 6 He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee: 7 ‘The Son of Man must be delivered over to the hands of sinners, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.’ ” 8 Then they remembered his words.

9 When they came back from the tomb, they told all these things to the Eleven and to all the others. 10 It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them who told this to the apostles. 11 But they did not believe the women, because their words seemed to them like nonsense. 12 Peter, however, got up and ran to the tomb. Bending over, he saw the strips of linen lying by themselves, and he went away, wondering to himself what had happened.

On the Road to Emmaus

13 Now that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles[a] from Jerusalem. 14 They were talking with each other about everything that had happened. 15 As they talked and discussed these things with each other, Jesus himself came up and walked along with them; 16 but they were kept from recognizing him.

17 He asked them, “What are you discussing together as you walk along?”

They stood still, their faces downcast. 18 One of them, named Cleopas, asked him, “Are you the only one visiting Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in these days?”

19 “What things?” he asked.

“About Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people. 20 The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him; 21 but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place. 22 In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning 23 but didn’t find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive. 24 Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but they did not see Jesus.”

25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

28 As they approached the village to which they were going, Jesus continued on as if he were going farther. 29 But they urged him strongly, “Stay with us, for it is nearly evening; the day is almost over.” So he went in to stay with them.

30 When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. 31 Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. 32 They asked each other, “Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?”

33 They got up and returned at once to Jerusalem. There they found the Eleven and those with them, assembled together 34 and saying, “It is true! The Lord has risen and has appeared to Simon.” 35 Then the two told what had happened on the way, and how Jesus was recognized by them when he broke the bread.

Jesus Appears to the Disciples

36 While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”

37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

40 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. 41 And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” 42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43 and he took it and ate it in their presence.

44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”

I read that as Jesus employing the art of disguise and having some fun with his friends, walking with them, asking them "why so sad, what's going on..?" (feining ignorance), then revealing his true visage to them while breaking bread (symbolic), hungry at one point asking for food, showing them his healing wounds.. "disappearing" from sight (could mean just suddenly leaving in a wink of an eye out a door opening, not "vanishing" that's an assumption by the reader).

To then ride of our town never to return while creating heaven on earth with every gallop and trot of a one horse carriage, maybe even the jingling of bells.. laughing all the way ho ho ho..


You call it the merest of speculation, but I think it's elementary dear Watson. (puffs pipe).

Something like that.

A survival, by the thinnest of threads and a rather miraculous healing yes (but still clearly on the mend), yet with a healed face, and nothing but the most prominent wounds apparent.. (a very very good healing based on the brutality he suffered not three or four days prior).

And if he went into the ordeal double bind (obedient unto the point of death) even if having seeded it in the mind of those who helped facilitate it - with Joseph of Arimathea and some say Nicodemus requesting from Pilate and receiving the body of Jesus into their custody, taken down early because it was on preparation night and it would otherwise defile the passover to keep him there beyond a certain hour, taken, wrapped (or not) and placed in a tomb, owned by.. Joseph of Arimathea.



What a victory! What a triumph!

(that's the happy stone rolling away) LOL!


I tell you at some point you might just slam your hand down on your desk or your knee (don't hit the cat) and go - ah HA! in an epiphany regarding the untold "part two" in the life of Jesus Christ, and yes by many accounts he hooked up with James his apostle or discipline (not the brother who was stoned) and traveled across Europe to as far as what is now France, even England, and then back through Persia to the Indus River to Kashmir where the tomb holding his bones lies today, and there were imprints taken of his feet cemented into the base of that tomb which perfectly correspond to a crucified man with one foot placed over the other and one large spike driven through both. Big deal he left his body in Kashmir.

This would overturn much of Christian thought or so some might think, but not if you get it, see it's magnificent splendor and beauty, that in reserving everything for us, and witholding nothing whatsoever it was necessary to have the courage and the audacity to also save it and reserve it for himself whereby the last are first and the first last, and I do NOT mean that selfishly, it's just his logic and genius taken to it's final and inexorable conclusion and we must remember that he did take the whole load of suffering while remaining obedient unto the very point of death, while completing the whole ritual flawlessly.

edit on 28-2-2013 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)
edit on 28-2-2013 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 02:04 AM
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this is relevant - mods please don't remove, thanks.


Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Unity_99
 



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 02:06 AM
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In the field

[just imagine him with a big smile on his face, and a good woman at his side]




Did someone say "blasphemy"? How dare you!


And this isn't preaching, just sharing what I think I've discovered along the way, about the nature of what was bound and liberated, for the sake of everything that's worthwhile in life, but for US, never just for himself "because if I seek only my own glory then that is no glory at all"

It's an invitation therefore to live a full and happy life - not divided and left in a state of eternal guilt and shame at the cross for our unending sins (how pathetic).




P.S. That image is of Roman Catholic origin, given to me by a street person who'd had it laminated and which I then had scanned for use exclusive to ATS.. (not that that means anything necessarily just reporting).

edit on 28-2-2013 by NewAgeMan because: edit



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 02:26 AM
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Originally posted by NewAgeMan

The Burial/Resurrection of Jesus

50 Now there was a man named Joseph, a member of the Council, a good and upright man, 51 who had not consented to their decision and action. He came from the Judean town of Arimathea, and he himself was waiting for the kingdom of God. 52 Going to Pilate, he asked for Jesus’ body. 53 Then he took it down, wrapped it in linen cloth and placed it in a tomb cut in the rock, one in which no one had yet been laid. 54 It was Preparation Day, and the Sabbath was about to begin.

55 The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. 56 Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.

24 On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. 2 They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, 3 but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. 4 While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them. 5 In their fright the women bowed down with their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, “Why do you look for the living among the dead? 6 He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee: 7 ‘The Son of Man must be delivered over to the hands of sinners, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.’ ” 8 Then they remembered his words.

Dazzling white suits like lightening? Hmph. One wonders if Jesus wasn't also presented with one of his own by these wealthy men (you had to be to have a dazzling white suit back in those days they didn't come on the cheap), these (likely) friends of Joseph of Arimathea. Presented it, in their recognition of the magnificence of his Magnum Opous generated in their midst, and even one within which they've now also played a role as the likely tombstone rollers (they would have had a lever).


Nice suit, your holiness (if you follow ATS lol). Keep that hat pulled down tight!


Edit: See last post, and page, for context, before writing me off as insane, thank you.

Santa Pope Woos Vatican Crowds - MUST READ!
 

Any questions anyone..?

Things that make ya go hmmm...

Best Regards, and Merry Christmas, (hey it should be Christmas all year round)

NAM
aka
Rudolf.


He's kind of like a spiritual detective lighting the way, so the analogy is apt. (I know what some of you were thinking..).


Things that make ya go hmmmm...




Ah but if I'm NOT crazy...




edit on 28-2-2013 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 02:55 AM
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posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 03:12 AM
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Because if you were Jesus, how on earth would you celebrate each and every winter solstice thereafter if not bedecked in a red cloak with white trimmings? And who knows maybe even mistletoe hung above a doorway and, in memory of Mary who died on the road possibly at the hand of an assassin (and with of course the permission of his second wife, a housekeeper although it was never the same as with Mary his first wife and his first love), a line up of women (for a mere passionate kiss) from here to kingdom come! lol


In cultures across pre-Christian Europe, mistletoe was seen as a representation of divine male essence (and thus romance, fertility and vitality).

en.wikipedia.org...

Ho Ho Ho, indeed!



Yes I realize that THAT part was mere speculation, but to live a full life as a freely and fully self expressed loving and joyful person would that not complete the other half of a life of sorrows with an equal measure of joy and happiness? And wouldn't such a person be a real belly laugher with deep, passionate, resonant tones mixed in? (Ho Ho Ho).

If he did employ the full moon lunar eclipse of April 3rd, 33AD (for Passover) to perform his Great Work while confounding his enemies, I can assure you that a great deal of joyful and happy living (not debauchery mind you since that was by no means in his character) took place, on the other side of the cross and 3 days in the tomb (with the full moon symbolizing a full life fully lived, not a half life of sorrows only with heaven "straight up" as per the official line).

This represents a powerful and otherwise missing calling of the Resurrection Life of Jesus Christ, to bring heaven to earth and have the audacity to be happy while still alive and not shunning a life lived to the full even to overflowing as a SHARED triumph and victory with only the very best of the best that life has to offer held in reserve (in store), for US as a shared koinonia.

It's a passionate communion and consumation, a true relationship between the beloved and beloved other which in this case is really any who recognize the love of God when they see it and in so doing, in beholding his glory, falling in love with him for the love that first loved us in spite of ourselves and which willingly received (and reintegrated) us, with him in us and us in him, completing the circle of joy with God through the person of Jesus Christ as the love of God made transparent and manifest. What a marvel for those who will..


God Bless and Love You,

NAM

edit on 28-2-2013 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 05:13 AM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 


Your Middle Eastern Jesus looks so caucasian!! lol

I just got face blasted with it! Was I supposed to feel love? Ooops. Guess I am callous



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 08:24 AM
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reply to post by bb23108
 



Does your argument hold up if you presume that the Divine is Conscious Light in which all conditions arise and are a modification of?


Does your presumption hold up if compared with the Bible, the source material from which all claims of love were taken in the original post of this thread?

Again, we are assuming that the god of the Bible is true, and all Biblical descriptions apply precisely. If such an assumption was made in order to write the original post, then I ask you to define the difference between love and tyranny. I ask you to point out where the two differ. I desire a standard by which to differentiate between Hitler and "God". Because from where I'm sitting, there's no difference at all.

How we proceed from here will depend on the answer to that request. If you continue dodging, I will continue reminding the thread of my request until someone gives me a satisfactory answer. After all, the majority of the objections in this thread hinge on the point I have raised. I think we skeptics would all greatly benefit from a sincere and detailed answer regarding my question.



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 08:34 AM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 


For those of you who are unaware of the context regarding this exchange, please refer to the below link where the argument that sparked the discussion continuing in this post can be found.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


The one who rebels, to set himself up on the highest hilltop, that one, the willful one, he is the tyrant.


Is that so? Please remind me, who is the highest of the high, the king of kings, the beginning and the end? Sounds to me like the king of the highest hilltop.
I believe you shot yourself in the foot there.



The love of God is a principal of liberation, even in the face of rebellion and the work of the tyranny of the self.

"Our liberation is God's compulsion."
~ C.S. Lewis


Where do you draw the line between liberation and oppression? You may as well answer that question too, while you're at it. By the way, you still haven't explained the divider between love and tyranny. I'm still waiting for that answer.


The will to meaning and thus a meaningful suffering (for the sake of love) trumps the will to power anyway, which always fails and abysmally at that whereby pride always goes before the fall.


Love shouldn't have to suffer. Why is it that we have to suffer for our love, but "God" doesn't have to do a damn thing? I'm still waiting for you to define the line dividing love and tyranny. And no, I won't let it go.



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 05:14 PM
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So this is what I get and the tone I receive for my attempted sharing of the Great Work and the shared mutuality of the Liberated Resurrected Life of Jesus Christ..

So sad, and so funny, maybe the reader can appreciate it, along with the irony.


The whole universe is ruled by an unconquerable love which nevertheless revealed itself in weakness, humility and the willingness to suffer for the sake of what is right, and whereby life's sorrows are met and exceeded by a joy and celebration of all that is good and loving, even fun and enjoyable.

A person will either see this and recognize it and understand, or they won't and will refuse to for reasons that even I cannot fathom.

edit on 28-2-2013 by NewAgeMan because: edit



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 05:27 PM
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reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 

It's not easy to find a good laughing Jesus pic, and I what I like about that one is that he's laughing in the rain.

Sorry it didn't please you.


Regards,


NAM



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 07:10 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by bb23108
 



Does your argument hold up if you presume that the Divine is Conscious Light in which all conditions arise and are a modification of?


Does your presumption hold up if compared with the Bible, the source material from which all claims of love were taken in the original post of this thread?


Actually the real source material from my original post was my own personal experience. I just happen to believe that meaning and context is well meaningful and therefore decisive, but that I cast it (like a net?) in terms of it's mystical evolutionary Christian perspective, that's my own choice and what I've chosen to share as the source of my sense of the love of God, but in this case not held out at arms length, where religion (as well as anti-religion) is employed as a defense against having an authentic spiritual experience (to quote Carl Jung) - but realized, at last, and in joining the circle of joy (our Great Work of All Ages) the full measure and proportion of what was intended is freely given and freely received, even if only at first in part as a mere taste of an ever greater meal yet to come. Food that satisfies, that's what it is and represents for me. Doesn't mean that it has to "grok" for you (a word invented by the science fiction writer Robert Heinlein which means to take in an idea so deeply that it's to eat and drink of it and fully integrate it into one's very being).

I present it (my experience and understanding) only for consideration as a purely non-coercive invitation for consideration only nothing more nothing less. It if doesn't work for you in any way then fine you don't have to take it on or it's calling and commission (see my signature link for more).

Best Regards, (honest)

NAM

edit on 28-2-2013 by NewAgeMan because: edit



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Again, we are assuming that the god of the Bible is true, and all Biblical descriptions apply precisely. If such an assumption was made in order to write the original post, then I ask you to define the difference between love and tyranny.
I understand that you are basing your argument on the presumption of the God as described in the Bible - as the Great Other, or some kind of Super-Entity. After clearly posting that I did not ascribe to the same Christian presumptions about God, I asked you my question below in the spirit of whether your argument held up still. If you think you already answered this, please elaborate.

Does your argument hold up if you presume that the Divine is Conscious Light in which all conditions arise and are a modification of?



Originally posted by AfterInfinity
How we proceed from here will depend on the answer to that request. If you continue dodging, I will continue reminding the thread of my request until someone gives me a satisfactory answer.
Hahahahaha! I am not sure how you can say that I am dodging your question, given the various posts I already have made about not presuming God as the Great Other. So if I were to address your argument, it would be intellectual at best, and that isn't really all that interesting to me.

You are sounding somewhat vain in your demands here, and perhaps being a bit of a tyrant yourself? Or maybe it's just a rant?
Anyway, I can also appreciate your passion relative to your understanding and that you want to share this.

However, if you can see the errors in this presumption about God, and the various (and potential) horrors of such errors, then what about the presumption of separate self? Isn't that possibly the same error leading to innumerable mini-tyrants? Isn't the presumption that God is Other actually based in the same error that we are separate from all others? There are many myths we inherit and presume as real, absolute truths even - such as the world, and everyone in it, are separate from oneself. What about this core myth that has created all this presumed separation in the midst of indivisible light?
edit on 28-2-2013 by bb23108 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 07:24 PM
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Originally posted by bb23108
in the midst of indivisible light?

That's the food, so imho it's an evolutionary principal as a continual process of differentiation and reintegration (eating), and therefore INVITING.

This is what I think that Jesus realized, he understood that at the core of things we've been invited to participate in something unfathomable and thus what we'd never really stopped to consider and appreciate before.

This is the mystical body of the mass of Jesus Christ as the light itself, but apportioning itself out in the form of food.



posted on Mar, 3 2013 @ 08:24 AM
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reply to post by bb23108
 


Your question regarding the Conscious Light...could you explain your question more clearly? It wasn't worded the best, so I'd like you to rephrase it and be more detailed.



posted on Mar, 3 2013 @ 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Your question regarding the Conscious Light...could you explain your question more clearly? It wasn't worded the best, so I'd like you to rephrase it and be more detailed.
If the Divine is not the Great Other as most religious institutions pronounce, but instead the Divine is the Reality that is Unconditional Acausal Indivisible (not separate) Consciousness Light-Love-Bliss or Prior Unity in which all forms (conditional reality) arise, does your argument still hold up?

I ask you this question because your argument seems completely dependent on the assumption that God is the Great Other. I can understand your argument relative to the lack of discrimination that buying into this myth of God as the Great Other implies, and I have posted several times relative to this. Those arguments, as well as the endless examples of the atrocities in the world if created by such a God, clearly indicate to me that such a version of the Divine does not exist.

However, before reaching some conclusion that the Divine does not exist at all or it does not matter or that the ego-I is who we really are, it should be inspected further. And thus I asked my question.

In addition...

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
I'm not trying to make atheists and theists kiss and make up or anything - if anything, I would make a third camp for those who are willing to be open, and both the worshipers and nonbelievers can come together and join hands for the cause of healing the world.

I appreciate your hopefulness here, but it is the tyrannical ego-I (animated by mankind en masse, regardless of our belief in God or not) that is destroying the world. We are obsessed consumers for the most part because the ego wants more and more and more - never satisfied. It is only when ALL seeking subsides and the heart rests in the Prior Unity in which we all arise, does the craving end, replaced by the inherent love-bliss or Happiness that is Reality itself.

By the way, when you say you "would make a third camp", you wouldn't necessarily be the head of it, would you?
Seriously, and you obviously must know this, there are many people who are looking to heal the planet in various ways, but until our egoic presumption at the core of our being is understood, such changes will at best be partial (though this is not to say we shouldn't continue with whatever we can do to help). However, it would be best if we all understood that we are not separate, but arise in Prior Unity - and on this basis, cooperate in endless kinds of ways.

Furthermore, your argument will not likely result in Christians giving up their religion. However, if Christians actually lived by Jesus' two principle commandments and understood and necessarily practiced his esoteric teachings, then this heart recognition of the all-inclusive Divine Reality or Prior Unity would become obvious (if it isn't already), as well as the inherent morality of the heart coming to the front, including spontaneous life changes that take into account the world we live in. This is essentially what Jesus spoke about in his commandments. How else could someone actually live by those commandments fully unless they already were NOT separated from the Divine and all others?
edit on 3-3-2013 by bb23108 because:



posted on Mar, 3 2013 @ 03:20 PM
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reply to post by bb23108
 



If the Divine is not the Great Other as most religious institutions pronounce, but instead the Divine is the Reality that is Unconditional Acausal Indivisible (not separate) Consciousness Light-Love-Bliss or Prior Unity in which all forms (conditional reality) arise, does your argument still hold up?


Speak English, please.


I ask you this question because your argument seems completely dependent on the assumption that God is the Great Other.


My argument was addressed to Judaics, calling their beliefs into question. Does that answer your question?


By the way, when you say you "would make a third camp", you wouldn't necessarily be the head of it, would you?


Not necessarily. I don't like power - it tends to promote the illusion that force is necessary for progress, when many times the opposite is true. Even better than recognizing our power, is recognizing when to use it...and when not to use it.
edit on 3-3-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2013 @ 03:29 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Speak English, please.

You seem to be a smart enough person - look up those words if you don't understand them. You actually appear to be evading my question again, and also didn't even address most things I just wrote you.

I will try one more time...
Think beyond this presumption of God as Other. If God is not a separate entity, but is the Reality in which we all arise, does your argument hold up? It does not in my opinion, but I already know my opinion, and was asking for yours.
edit on 3-3-2013 by bb23108 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2013 @ 03:30 PM
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double post.
edit on 3-3-2013 by bb23108 because: (no reason given)






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