The Mark of Cain. What Is It? Has It Been Revealed?

reply to post by ss830
Got anything to back up your 'post flood' assertions? Links, research, studies, or just anything apart from opinion?

reply to post by grainofsand

Maybe because it is not true?

How much more useful would the story be if it were?

If you have some verifiable evidence then I shall of course keep an open mind,

At some point, the first murder occurred. Whether or not there is a God that has any opinion of the matter is beside the point, really. The point, in my opinion, being that the value in keeping these stories around and discussing them helps us all to reflect and figure our way out of problems.

but I remain drawn to the idea that it is just mystical silliness until such evidence is produced.

And so, if you find no usefulness in the story, and if you find no value in the mystical, no one is going to fault you.

Originally posted by Bybyots
reply to post by grainofsand

 

Maybe because it is not true?

How much more useful would the story be if it were?

Lots more, it would show how twisted the Abrahamic God was.

If you have some verifiable evidence then I shall of course keep an open mind,

At some point, the first murder occurred. Whether or not there is a God that has any opinion of the matter is beside the point, really. The point, in my opinion, being that the value in keeping these stories around and discussing them helps us all to reflect and figure our way out of problems.

If the existence of any gods is irrelevant then why cherry pick from the bible? Surely fairytales would have the same desired result.

but I remain drawn to the idea that it is just mystical silliness until such evidence is produced.

And so, if you find no usefulness in the story, and if you find no value in the mystical, no one is going to fault you.

I find no value in the unprovable and encourage anyone to find fault with that.

reply to post by grainofsand


A LOT of research has been done with Hyperbaric Chamber in regards to Inbreeding, and the results were POSITIVE, as in genetic defects were minimal if at all. The Hyperbaric Chamber is used to replicate the environment in pre-flood earth, since in the Hovind Theory it's theorized that the earth had a higher Oxygen content than we do nowadays(present times) and there was less pollution as well.

also the Life span of all those after Noah started to declined after the flood, but prior to the flood, the life span was higher.


i'll need to start a thread, since we're *i am* going off topic

reply to post by grainofsand

If the existence of any gods is irrelevant then why cherry pick from the bible? Surely fairy tales would have the same desired result.

I don't really make any personal distinctions about where they come from, I am only really interested in content and what strikes a chord with me in a productive way. I am an equal opportunity consumer of writing.

Based on how you present yourself, I would assume that, to you, a fairy tale would simply be a fairy tale, despite its source.

reply to post by ss830

God made the world and it was good? Thats your proof of pure genetics?

The reasons God brought the flood are listed in Genesis 6.

Verse 3 lists mans age at 120.

Verse 7 he is sorry about men and beast...

11 and 12 he specifically states that both man and beast are "corrupted".

13 states he will destroy all flesh.

Not so pure now? So my original question still stands .

Why does an all powerful God even need an ark? He made the whole world (and the heavens for that matter).
How were the animals genetic purity determined before such a thing was even known?
Why a flood? Why not just "fix" it. Poof the bad to good?

Please don't say the angels did it. Thats my point. Religion seems to answer every unanswerable question with... well, God did that part. I understand that coming from people that lived so long ago. We know better now.

Not that the earth wasn't populated with life by God and his angels mind you, just the "magic wand" parts. Thats all.

Oh and Cain's "mark" is just that he is a marked man. A death mark is a hard thing to bear. It relates to guilty conscious and the lost trust a community has for a person that has committed murder.

Would you let a murderer date your daughter or babysit your kids? It has nothing to do with a mark on the skin. Science would have identified that by now. All murderers in prison would bear it.

reply to post by Bybyots


I love Grail lore and am a huge fan of the Book of Parzival. My fav. movie of all time besides 'The Fountain' is 'Excalibur'.

I tend to think that the reason Cain is mentioned by the hermit is because Cain represents an aspect of ourselves inner-outer and belongs to those stages of descent we have descended. It seems to be part of that which leads up to the idea of the Grail's power of Redemption and Restoration and how through the Quest we come to that inner-outer (for the Land and the King are One) Redemption and Restoration.

reply to post by intrptr

God made the world and it was good?

first things god doesn't do things half assed as we humans do
when created everything and saw that it was good he didn't see any need to change how things worked,
from the physics of the universe, to the biology of all the cells in the human body to the environment to live and thrive in.

the cells in the human body do a whole lot which we are barely able to understand in our current age,
but when left alone in the environment which they were meant to exist (in the pre-flood world) they would excel. From increased regeneration, to longevity *i'll refer you to the Hyperbolic Chamber which is used by NASA, just sayin'*

Thats your proof of pure genetics?

yes, inbred animals carry defects *can't be denied* which are passed on to the next gen.
but *in a Hyperbolic Chamber which mimics the pre-flood worlds atmosphere* those genetic defects are reduced, and sometimes removed.
the reason being is that the body/cells is placed in the environment that it was meant to be in, because it was good for the cells health even if they're inbred, because in this environment (and pre-world) those defects don't come up because the cells are designed to fix themselves

The reasons God brought the flood are listed in Genesis 6.
Verse 3 lists mans age at 120.

adam lived 930 years
seth 912
enosh 905
cainan 910

this is before the Sons of god came into the Daughters of man
it is also believed that the sons of god mentioned in this chapter,
are the fallen angels.

Verse 3 lists mans age at 120

lol, nope
Gen ch6: v3: And the Lord said, "My Spirit shall not strive (abide in other translations) with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years,"
does not mention mans age but at what age he will begin to die and then it mentions.

Gen ch6: v5: Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, an he was grieved in his heart.
but the wickedness was a choice they made not something which he created them with.
(think software not hardware, programmed not embedded).

Verse 7 he is sorry about men and beast...
11 and 12 he specifically states that both man and beast are "corrupted".
13 states he will destroy all flesh.

Gen ch6: v8: But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

Why does an all powerful God even need an ark?

people ask why doesn't he just fix all the illnesses, make everyone a wealthy, why doesn't he do this, that, and those things. the reason He's not our slave.

In the bible he's depicted as a King, Lord, Father, and a whole lot of things.
a lord has dominion over those people meaning his word is law, and can't be disobeyed, this is to keep order and discipline
a king leads his people to prosperity and protects them from danger *at least they're supposed to*
a father cares for his children and teaches them right from wrong, and dishes our discipline when needed

that being said, he's not going to do the work for us if we can do it ourselves.
he only steps in when it is something impossible for us.

He made the whole world (and the heavens for that matter).

see above

How were the animals genetic purity determined before such a thing was even known?

i could answer that in a couple ways
1. after living for several centuries each person (between 100-900 years), the science would probably be stumbled into or developed. look at the tech we've developed in the last 200 years. and look at the building around the world which have been around for thousands of years*Mayan, Egyptian, Chinese, and many more*
2. Adam could've probably been created with that knowledge in the first place and handed down the information to his children.
3. in an environment specifically design for life, where everyone(beast and man) born is healthy, there wouldn't be difficulty finding a pure specimen, unless soiled *sons of god come into daughters of man*

Why a flood? Why not just "fix" it. Poof the bad to good?

he wanted to recycle? you can't fix a choice unless you do it by force, but i'm guessing he wants people to do good of their own free will
when you do wrong knowing that you're doing wrong, you have to get punished *unless you're a banker i guess*

Please don't say the angels did it.
Not that the earth wasn't populated with life by God and his angels mind you, just the "magic wand" parts. Thats all

i don't know how he populated earth, i wasn't there, wish i was.
if he is an alien *as some theories have put out there* then a machine that handles genetic engineering
if he is a being that can control our universe at will and is all knowing and all powerful, then he can do as he wishe

reply to post by ss830

God what a sermon / lecture. You forget I was raised in sunday school and force fed church dogma from a young age. Pure indoctrination before I ever understood what the word religion even means. Thanks for leaving that bad taste in my mouth. I know what Churchdom and churchians say and think. They argue verse after verse all day long. Whats this and that mean all according to hand me down fairy tales. Sorry...

One redeeming thing.

if he is an alien *as some theories have put out there* then a machine that handles genetic engineering

I wasn't there either. The garden of Eden (read that the original green house) on desolate earth. Its called terraforming and is going on throughout the Universe as we speak. New planets are seeded with life and gardens are sprouted on new planets all the time. Its called "Terraforming" and is carried out with huge ships (arks if you will) that traverse the cosmos from earth to earth carrying seeds and embryos.

The "tree" of life? Thats your genetic machine of reproduction. Not some "apple" but very special "fruit" being grown to release to earth. Messing with that is not allowed. Even seeing it would spoil the works because they would know now how things are really done. I don't need to see it... that is how it must have been done.

Not magic or "poofing" but working with the things we are only now unlocking and messing with (genetics).

The mystery of life. The wonder of it all. Go outside and look up at the stars, not bury your head in a book.

Angels are gods gardeners. Some of them are still here monitoring and tweaking, insuring the "crop" of humans survives until "harvest" or judgment day.

If "god" needed man to build an ark it was because he could not be here to fix it, space is huge and the travel time is long.

Just before Jesus left he said I'll be back... Space is vast and the travel times are long.

When the "fiery chariot" appeared or many other depictions of "craft" in the bible are spoken of... same ting.

The modern world is still beset with ancient religious interpretations from the Dark Ages. Time to come into the modern world.

It is often said that Bigfoot lives between physical dimensions and has the ability to traverse from here to there. It is also often said that when in the presence of Bigfoot there comes a fear factor or psychic sense of dread.

There is also the idea that Bigfoot is fairly closely related to humans so that when we see Bigfoot we see a face that could easily be human and diverts most of us from killing Bigfoot since many humans seem to have a major mental block about killing other humans.

Bigfoot is obviously not all human - being that his skin tends to be black - being that his body is covered everywhere with fur - being that compared to man Bigfoot is a giant and even stronger than a gorilla.

I think the mark of Cain is being a Bigfoot - while hiding in the forest fits cut off from humankind.

I don't have any proof of my theory or opinion but given the circumstances of the written records about Cain I think the best guess is - Bigfoot.

reply to post by intrptr


you did ask for clarification, maybe it was rhetorical, but i felt obligated to answer.
as far as the bad taste, sometimes you just have to put up with the medicine in order to get healthy *figure of speech*

You don't believe in God but you believe in ET phone home??
anything not of this country, world or universe would be considered Alien, but it depends on your definition. look at the mexicans the lower part of the USA was part of mexico now its of the USA. This Universe was made by GOD, and since we've been here, we've forgotten that this is HIS Universe, HIS Creation.

that being said, i really have nothing more to add, but will keep responding if asked to.

also i doubt the curse was that he turned into bigfoot since it says

Gen 4:11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
Gen 4:12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.

usually when a curse is placed in the bible, *either by man or GOD*, they give a description of the curse and how it works
CAIN
Gen 4:12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth
Cannan
Gen 9:25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

i don't know why he cursed cannan though when it was ham?!?!

reply to post by ss830

You don't believe in God but you believe in ET phone home??

I believe in a creator. The creator of life. A seed, an egg, the magic of the womb. The creator of the genome or genetic code (gods software). You call it "God", whatever that is supposed to mean.

ET is a hollywood movie.

It seems to me that Cain feared being killed more than once. Looking at multiple translations it seems to say that anyone who came across him would kill him. As if once he was killed he would return back to his body to again suffer the same fate. Perhaps his mark made him horrible to look at and there would be no way that he could fit into any society. If that is true then the Bigfoot theory could apply. Cains punishment being disfigurement and a reclusive eternity unable to socialize with people without an absolute end.

reply to post by garygnu


I've heard of Esau as being speculated at such.

In Gen. 27, Isaac sends Esau for venison after which he was to bless Esau but Rebakah tells Jacob to impersonate Esau that Jacob might recieve the blessing. And he does just that and succeeds.

"11. And Jacob said to Rebekah his mother, Behold, Esau my brother is a hairy man, and I am a smooth man:" -Gen. 27:11

Even the hands of Esau are described as hairy:
" 21. And Isaac said unto Jacob, Come near, I pray thee, that I may feel thee, my son, whether thou be my very son Esau or not." (*For Isaac was advanced in years and his sight was waned.)
"22. And Jacob went near unto Isaac his father; and he felt him, and said, The voice is Jacob's voice, but the hands are the hands of Esau.
23. And he discerned him not, because his hands were hairy, as his brother Esau's hands: so he blessed him." - Gen 27:21-23 ( What Jacob wore to imitate Esau was, "16. And she put the skins of the kids of the goats upon his hands, and upon the smooth of his neck:"- Gen. 27:16)

Do you think it is possible that Esau bears the mark of Cain and that the mark actually survived the Deluge through Noah or through his wife?

Originally posted by ss830
reply to post by grainofsand

 

A LOT of research has been done with Hyperbaric Chamber in regards to Inbreeding, and the results were POSITIVE, as in genetic defects were minimal if at all. The Hyperbaric Chamber is used to replicate the environment in pre-flood earth, since in the Hovind Theory it's theorized that the earth had a higher Oxygen content than we do nowadays(present times) and there was less pollution as well.

also the Life span of all those after Noah started to declined after the flood, but prior to the flood, the life span was higher.


i'll need to start a thread, since we're *i am* going off topic

I watched Dr. Hovind's full presentation on the Hovind Theory a couple months ago, and I was amazed. In my opinion, there is no other way it could have happened. Especially with the way the mammoths were "flash-frozen", among many other things. Yes; please do start a thread! I would read it, for sure!