reply to post by adjensen
Actually, no, you didn't. You claimed there that Paul had written Hebrews, which he did not,
I wrote down what my study Bible says who is traditionally held to have written Hebrews. And you know Paul did not because, and the name of the real
the bit in Colossians refers to an "annual Sabbath", without any supporting evidence for it. If a person has multiple uses for the same word,
and does not qualify it,
Lucky for me, verse 16 and 17 qualify it...open up your eyes. Is the weekly Sabbath of the Divine Law related at all to the what people eat and drink
and new moons of the Ceremonial law (that was nailed to the cross)...uh, no.
Col. 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: (KJV)
So which rest (sabbaths) DAYS relate to new moons and what you eat and drink and are a shadow of things that were completed in Jesus Christ (v.17)?
Considering that we are already told in Isaiah (66:22, 23) that the Sabbath will continue in Heaven and the New Earth it is obviously not the weekly
Sabbath. Please try to think a little harder before you post next time.
In a nutshell, here is the prophetic significance of each of the seven Levitical feasts of Israel:
1) Passover (Leviticus 23:5) – Pointed to the Messiah as our Passover lamb (1 Corinthians 5:7) whose blood would be shed for our sins. Jesus was
crucified on the day of preparation for the Passover at the same hour that the lambs were being slaughtered for the Passover meal that evening.
2) Unleavened Bread (Leviticus 23:6) – Pointed to the Messiah's sinless life (as leaven is a picture of sin in the Bible), making Him the perfect
sacrifice for our sins. Jesus' body was in the grave during the first days of this feast, like a kernel of wheat planted and waiting to burst forth as
the bread of life.
3) First Fruits (Leviticus 23:10) – Pointed to the Messiah's resurrection as the first fruits of the righteous. Jesus was resurrected on this very
day, which is one of the reasons that Paul refers to him in 1 Corinthians 15:20 as the "first fruits from the dead."
4) Weeks or Pentecost (Leviticus 23:16) – Occurred fifty days after the beginning of the Feast of Unleavened Bread and pointed to the great harvest
of souls and the gift of the Holy Spirit for both Jew and Gentile, who would be brought into the kingdom of God during the Church Age (see Acts 2).
The Church was actually established on this day when God poured out His Holy Spirit and 3,000 Jews responded to Peter's great sermon and his first
proclamation of the gospel.
5) Trumpets (Leviticus 23:24) – The first of the fall feasts. Many believe this day points to the Rapture of the Church when the Messiah Jesus will
appear in the heavens as He comes for His bride, the Church. The Rapture is always associated in Scripture with the blowing of a loud trumpet (1
Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:52).
6) Day of Atonement (Leviticus 23:27) – Many believe this prophetically points to the day of the Second Coming of Jesus when He will return to
earth. That will be the Day of Atonement for the Jewish remnant when they "look upon Him whom they have pierced," repent of their sins, and receive
Him as their Messiah (Zechariah 12:10 and Romans 11:1-6, 25-36).
7) Tabernacles or Booths (Leviticus 23:34) – Many scholars believe that this feast day points to the Lord's promise that He will once again
“tabernacle” with His people when He returns to reign over all the world (Micah 4:1-7).
Thank you for another giant wall of text that takes a straightforward statement, dissects and reframes it in order to make it sound like it
says the exact opposite of what it does.
How is sabbath days framed in the context of the ceremonial law and saying it was a shadow of something fulfilled in Christ a straightforward
statement against the weekly Sabbath of the Divine Law when the Divine Law remains forever and the Sabbath is a memorial to creation and is not a
shadow of anything.
Luke 16:17 It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law (or to become void ESV)
So knowing this multiple principles at play, is it any wonder that the major view in bible commentaries agree with what I have said in analysing this
verse, is it any wonder that the Catholic church agree with Adventist analysis in relation to this whole Sabbath topic. I am sorry you can’t
understand the Bible properly, it is truly a shame. But if you want to come on this thread and introduce this topic while framing it negatively about
Adventists (when I am trying to do an inclusive thread to bring in non-Christians into a religious discussion) then I am going to make a good and
proper example out of your terrible theological understanding and your interest to sabotage me in drawing people to Christianity.
The problem that you have is that there are very clear indications in scripture that you are wrong, so you need to twist the text in order to
The problem is that your level of Bible scholarship is terrible, you aren’t able to analysis verses inclusive of principles that Jesus himself has
set, and you have no understanding of the kind of authorities that approve that interpretation.
However, viewed holistically (the only way to read the Bible, in my opinion,)
Please do this more, it would help you out a lot
If that's the case, then why restate any of them?
So when Jesus is asked a question He is meant to keep his mouth shut now...?
but as Paul says:
Who ever said that you are justified by the law?
Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and
like the wind our sins sweep us away.
We are to be sincere in following God, the one who we have faith in. Following what He commands of us is a sign of our love for Him and a testimony of
His Divine precepts that help lead others to God.
Again, I ask you -- is Paul in hell for worshiping on Sunday, and for encouraging others to do the same?
Please cite the verses that clearly show Paul worshiping God on Sunday, separate from Sabbath and encouraging other to worship God on Sunday as well.
I hope your verses are a little more substantial than few people eating bread together or collecting money. Such things are not worshipping God.
How about you tell me what you mean by hell?
Paul neither held weekly worship of God on Sunday, or encourage others to do the same, nor is he burning in hell right now (and neither are any dead
people who might be deemed wicked)
The question is whether salvation hangs on a technicality, which particular day you view as being appropriate for worship, and whether we are
bound by that, or whether Christ liberated us from it. The SDA claims it does hang on a technicality, everyone else claims it doesn't.
Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as
Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.
Soooo...no one cares about this huh! The Catholic church just said right there that if I don’t follow their day (they made up out of thin air) that
I am accused from Jesus. Do you think the Catholic church makes this “technicality” a salvation issue? Clearly they do. You come on this forum
trying to defend the Catholic church as much as you can and what, you thought I would be too dumb to see what the Catholics have to say about this
Everyone else claims it doesn’t matter what particular day you worship or whether we are bound by that
- 2177...Sunday...is to be observed as the foremost holy day of obligation in the universal Church.
- 2180 The precept of the Church specifies the law of the Lord more precisely: "On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the
faithful are bound to participate in the Mass.
- 2185 On Sundays and other holy days of obligation
Catecism of the Catholic church
Clearly you don’t read too well adjensen, which then results in having to deal with statements you make based on no sense of reality (an all too
familiar occurrence with you)
The only ones who don’t care are the ones unconsciously following the authority of the Catholic church whose whole doctrine of Sunday obligation and
ecclesiastical authority and built from multiple lies.
The only ones that don’t care are the ones that are already beguiled wondering after the beast in worshipping his image unconsciously.
The only ones that suddenly don’t care on the issue are those that bring it up on the thread, see that the argument is going way south against them
and seek to bail from it.
“Protestants...accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change...But the Protestant
mind does not seem to realize that...In observing the Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church, the Pope.” — Our
Sunday Visitor, February 15, 1950.
“It was the Catholic church which...has transferred this rest to Sunday in remembrance of the resurrection of our Lord. Therefore the observance of
Sunday by the Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) church.” — Monsignor Louis Segur,
Plain Talk About the Protestantism of Today, p. 213.
it should come as little surprise that the vast majority of people do not subscribe to the SDA doctrine that results in the belief that people
are saved by works (Saturday worship) and works alone.
It should come as little surprise that the Catholic church thinks that all protestants have completely discredited theology other than Adventist’s
who are te one ones that can support their theology from the Bible alone.
It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their
observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic
Church.” — Priest Brady, in an address reported in The News, Elizabeth, New Jersey, March 18, 1903.
It should come as little surprise that the one who thinks Adventist’s teach saved by works alone is the one who has to lie to himself (as I have
been clearly teaching faith and obedience), and has never read any Ellen White books or serious SDA theology in his life.
"Is there any command in the New Testament to change the day of weekly rest from Saturday to Sunday? None." (Manual of Christian Doctrine p.127)
- "We have made a change from the seventh day to the first day, form Saturday to Sunday, on the authority of the one holy Catholic and apostolic
church of Christ." (Why we keep Sunday. p.28.)
They [the Protestants] deem it their duty to keep the Sunday holy. Why? Because the Catholic Church tells them to do so. They have no other
reason...The observance of Sunday thus comes to be an ecclesiastical law entirely distinct from the divine law of Sabbath observance...The
author of the Sunday law...is the Catholic Church.” — Ecclesiastical Review, February 1914.
PLEASE LEARN adjensen the difference between Judaic law and Divine Law, it is not some airy fairy concept that I just made up....the Catholic church
is making it abundantly clear that Sabbath is apart of Divine Law (the Divine Law that will never pass away or become void in any regard)
The "it doesn't matter" argument is bolstered by the words of Christ. The "it does matter" is bolstered by the words of the false prophet
- Please show me these “words of Christ” in relation to this topic
- Please show me these words of Ellen White (who you try a come on here to turn people against as an authority yet are now trying to use her to
support yet another unsourced personal opinion of yours)
ETA: I know that you won't read it, but for the benefit of others who may be interested in the "truth" of Ellen White
I will be reading it, although I have read all these kinds of things before anyway (that don’t hold any water on closer inspection)...I am just
dealing with the Sabbath issue first which is the order I told you I would take. What is it adjensen, the argument on Sabbath going WAY south on you
and panicking to distract the reader...lol....distracting others from the debate at hand is about all you can hope for at this stage.
The fact of the matter is adjensen, every doctrine of Adventists is fully supported by the Bible alone. If you are going to get into a theology debate
against an SDA on differences then expect to find no support for your position as time progresses and overwhelming support for the SDA position. If
any Christian wanted to follow theology of the highest degree of truth they would all have to follow SDA theology whether Ellen White is in the
picture or not. We will find out that White was a prophet soon enough when we get to that debate.
Let me use big letters that you might be able to better discern: The underlined passage there is flat out wrong -- the Catholic church did
not "CHANGE THE SABBATH", and explicitly says so in the Catechism.
2175 Sunday... for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath.
2176 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant
2180 The precept of the Church specifies the law of the Lord more precisely: "On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are
bound to participate in the Mass."117 "The precept of participating in the Mass is satisfied by assistance at a Mass which is celebrated anywhere in a
Catholic rite either on the holy day or on the evening of the preceding day.
2184 The institution of the Lord's Day helps everyone enjoy adequate rest and leisure to cultivate their familial, cultural, social, and
2188 Christians should seek recognition of Sundays and the Church's holy days as legal holidays.
2190 The sabbath, which represented the completion of the first creation, has been replaced by Sunday
When Canon XXIX accurses any Christian before God for keeping the Sabbath (because they are denying Catholic authority) and tells Christians that
Sunday observance replaces the sabbath (2175, 2190), that Sunday is now a law of the Lord (2180), that the day of rest (2184 taking over the
attributes of the design of the Sabbath) must not be kept from any early than the evening of Saturday (2180) because this is technically the Sabbath
(Friday sundown to Saturday sundown)...oh and what’s this, Christians should have it as their priority to get Sunday recognised by civil authorities
to be a legal holiday (2188) (sounds like ingrained doctrinal plans for Sunday Law around the world for the universal church).
Let me use big letter’s ...TO ANYONE WHO HAS EYES TO SEE AND EARS TO HEAR UNDERSTAND WHAT IS SAID IN THE CATECISM AND CANON LAW, THAT THE ORIGINAL
BIBLICALLY SANTIFIED DAY OF REST AND SPIRITUAL FOCUS HAS BEEN REPLACE BY SUNDAY AND HAS BECOME A LAW PUNISHABLE BY BEING ACCURSED FROM GOD IF ONE
DOESN’T FOLLOW IT. THEY HAVE CHANGED THE OBLIGATION OF THE DAY OF REST, THUS THEY HAVE CHANGED THE SABBATH COMMANDMENT FOR THOSE WHO ARE TO FOLLOW
GOD...stop being blind and deaf
Get that? Your statement that the Catholic Church CHANGED the Sabbath is flat out wrong.
Get it...try to think a little harder before you speak...my statement quoting the Catholic church say that they have changed the obligated weekly day
of rest and worship to God is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT
Sunday worship is documented in the New Testament, Saturday worship for non-Jews is not. Pure and simple, like it or leave it.
I am all ears ready and willing to see this worship of God communally on Sunday....please provide your verses!
All the rest of it, once again, comes down to you and your foolish legalisms.
Let’s see..you ignore all my quotes from the NT about faith and keeping the commandments and then try to frame this all about legalism. This is what
the Bible thinks of your foolish statement
Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
1 John 2:4 If someone claims, "I know God," but doesn't obey God's commandments, that person is a liar and is not living in the truth.
No light in you, doesn’t know God (a liar not living in truth)....the Bible is not giving you a good recommendation here adjensen...what a pitty for
you and the worth of any opinion you have to give
edit on 22-2-2013 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)