An open question on the character of the divine in relation to Judgement

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posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

Much to learn you still have my young padawan. Cling not to your conclusions which may be in error. Consider other points of view you will in time. (said like Yoda).




posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
reply to post by adjensen
 


The dictionary (a higher source of authority than your opinion) would suggest I was spot on correct..

Your article is from the United Church of God, hardly the unbiased source you make it out to be, lol.


Of course, lets not nitpick about the NT references I just gave you making it clear as day it is faith and obedience

Here, pick this one apart:


Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. (Colossians 2:16 NIV)

If we have a choice about what day we worship God (and there are plenty of examples in the New Testament and early church fathers that the seventh day Sabbath was intentionally rejected in favour of Sunday worship) then the specific day can hardly be a direct command, can it?

Is Paul in Hell, because he worshipped on Sunday and told others that they could?

 

Earlier today I ran across something that I'd never heard before, and I don't have time right now to go research (I have to go to a church finance meeting, lol) -- according to the source, nine of the Ten Commandments are restated in the New Testament (maybe by Jesus, specifically, it didn't say) and the only one that isn't in the Sabbath one. I'm sure that you've heard that before and can show that it's wrong, citing the passage when Christ restates it as a Commandment.

Thanks!



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 07:02 PM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 




Much to learn you still have my young padawan. Cling not to your conclusions which may be in error. Consider other points of view you will in time. (said like Yoda).


I'm been considering views through this entire thread. I've also posted the reasons I disagree. If I'm wrong, then show me.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 07:36 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

Ok, consider this, even from an enlightened master's perspective (like Jesus).

There is one God and one God only, and one spirit of God and one only, and one "condition" only, which is God.

Jesus was "sent" by God as a first/last cause to do a great work, a task he accepted willingly for the sake of love.

Now re-think it all through from Jesus' perspective, who held the line without compromise, and stop thinking of God as a separate being or assuming that we all think of God in that way.

Does this not begin to alter the POV..?



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 07:45 PM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 


Nope. I still see an omnipotent being committing the unthinkable to fix his mistakes instead of doing the job right the first time around. He knew exactly what he wanted from us, so there's no excuse to complain about our flaws. With that in mind, he never should have had to sacrifice Jesus. He chose to shed blood instead of avoiding it. He has to go out of his way to make things difficult for himself, and he sure went all out with that one.
edit on 19-2-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 07:52 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 
Here is the issue

I don't know where Jesus got his power, if in fact he existed at all
This is what a life without Jesus looks like.

We are the puppets in the stories he writes. And if we don't play our roles as he wills it, then we are condemned. Because that makes us broken puppets. And his palace has no room for broken puppets. He has already said this.

Jesus restores and heals, his power comes from the master, The one who created you. There is room in his palace for you, but you need to loose your strings. Your purpose, your "roll" is only known to the master. Jesus can show you your purpose.

He can detach the strings, the strings you created to control yourself, and replace them with wireless capabilities, in Him you will live and move and know your purpose. Your tangled in your own strings and can't see, how can you be effective.

Jesus cut the strings for me. I can see the purpose clearer now. I still move like I have strings because I was conditioned for so long. I'm just now learning to use my legs to run this race. It sucks not having the comfort of the strings, but I'm able to do way more without the strings than I could before.

A puppet can't disobey, a puppet has to do what it's master does. I can choose not to follow Jesus I can choose to reattach the strings, like the Israelites in the desert who wanted to go back to Egypt so they could have good food.

The biggest lie is that free will is easy and fun. Free will sucks, because we have to be accountable to our actions.
If we are puppets we can just say its not me its the big idiot pulling the strings. The problem comes when were the one pulling our strings.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 08:13 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

There could be more to it when you factor in love's reason whereby love to be love must be free.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 




There could be more to it when you factor in love's reason whereby love to be love must be free.


If you don't love "God", you don't go to heaven. I don't call that free.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 08:49 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 



Here, pick this one apart: Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. (Colossians 2:16 NIV)


Already picked apart with my answer to Determind, try to keep up old-timer


If you don't like that then there is this analysis on the passage. (you might want to have a better look at that site before making anymore arguments. You might notice 18 arguments that you could use on this issue...they are all answered for)

If you don't like those two links read a few Bible commentaries on Colossians 2:16 at the bottom of the page

A good link to check out explainng Shadow sabbaths
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there are plenty of examples in the New Testament and early church fathers that the seventh day Sabbath was intentionally rejected in favour of Sunday worship)

incorrect adjensen, read the arguments (eg. argument 10) on the adventist defense league site...they don't hold water.
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I'm sure that you've heard that before and can show that it's wrong, citing the passage when Christ restates it as a Commandment.

Nah, I haven't heard that one before...it might be right. If it is the case I think it is just to add spice to the mix, just so Luci has a slight chance to pull off a deception. The argument is mostly irrelevant as it is covered in the aspects of the commandment to "love the Lord with all your heart",

Jesus doesn't need to specifically reinstate something....
- Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and for ever. Heb. 13:8
- He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. 1 John 2:6
- For even hereunto ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example that ye should follow his steps: 1 Peter 2:21

Jesus Left us an example to follow and he changes not!
And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went in to the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. Luke 4:16
edit on 19-2-2013 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 09:14 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

ah..sigh.

Unless God is love itself and the reason for the seasons, and your own inclusion. To project hate is to hate one's self and all judgement is a judgement about one's self in the final analysis. One God, one condition, one spirit, one love.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 09:27 PM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 



ah..sigh.

Unless God is love itself and the reason for the seasons, and your own inclusion. To project hate is to hate one's self and all judgement is a judgement about one's self in the final analysis. One God, one condition, one spirit, one love.


Who said anything about hate? I want the ability to choose without fear. I want to choose the fate that is right for me. Based on what I've heard, heaven just isn't for my type of personality. "God" doesn't have anything that I want - at least, nothing worth selling my soul for - and I don't feel I should be punished for that.
edit on 19-2-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 09:45 PM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 



ah..sigh.

Unless God is love itself and the reason for the seasons, and your own inclusion. To project hate is to hate one's self and all judgement is a judgement about one's self in the final analysis. One God, one condition, one spirit, one love.


Love energy is an edible commodity its called LOOSH. Do you have any idea what God eats as a food stuff, nurishment? Not a kind and loving one I can assure you. You are a neverending source of energy, the worst evil to the best of the best, is all consumed.
edit on 19-2-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 08:21 AM
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reply to post by adjensen
 




Earlier today I ran across something that I'd never heard before, and I don't have time right now to go research (I have to go to a church finance meeting, lol) -- according to the source, nine of the Ten Commandments are restated in the New Testament (maybe by Jesus, specifically, it didn't say) and the only one that isn't in the Sabbath one. I'm sure that you've heard that before and can show that it's wrong, citing the passage when Christ restates it as a Commandment.


You are correct, however, I've posted these verses for JesuitGarlic before and they tend to be ignored.

Matthew 15:19-20

19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Matthew 19:16-19

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


By the way, Jesuit, if Jesus said that the two greatest commandments were these....


Matthew 22:26-40

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


...then why would you ever base salvation itself on something different?

The truth is, salvation comes from faith in Christ. This is what Jesus, John and Paul taught.

Out of the Jewish laws that Paul did suggest for the Christians to practice, the Sabbath wasn't one of them. Why is that?

Might I suggest some research and keyword searches in the Bible for "hang all the law and the prophets".


edit on 20-2-2013 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
reply to post by adjensen
 



Here, pick this one apart: Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. (Colossians 2:16 NIV)


Already picked apart with my answer to Determind

Actually, no, you didn't. You claimed there that Paul had written Hebrews, which he did not, and then said that the bit in Colossians refers to an "annual Sabbath", without any supporting evidence for it. If a person has multiple uses for the same word, and does not qualify it, it is unreasonable to assume that they mean anything other than the most common usage, or alternatively, meant all of them.


If you don't like that then there is this analysis on the passage. (you might want to have a better look at that site before making anymore arguments. You might notice 18 arguments that you could use on this issue...they are all answered for)

Thank you for another giant wall of text that takes a straightforward statement, dissects and reframes it in order to make it sound like it says the exact opposite of what it does. That's the second time you've used that same guy to do the exact same thing.

The problem that you have is that there are very clear indications in scripture that you are wrong, so you need to twist the text in order to diffuse it. However, viewed holistically (the only way to read the Bible, in my opinion,) it is obvious that something as important as what you view as a "drop dead Commandment" would not be openly rejected in the text, and the truth only ascertainable through the study of ancient languages, cultural biases and leaps in logic.



I'm sure that you've heard that before and can show that it's wrong, citing the passage when Christ restates it as a Commandment.

Nah, I haven't heard that one before...it might be right. If it is the case I think it is just to add spice to the mix, just so Luci has a slight chance to pull off a deception. The argument is mostly irrelevant as it is covered in the aspects of the commandment to "love the Lord with all your heart",

If that's the case, then why restate any of them?


Jesus Left us an example to follow and he changes not!
And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went in to the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. Luke 4:16

You realize how dumb that is, right?

Who was going to hear him if he went in to the synagogue on a day that WASN'T the Sabbath and stood up to read? The mice?

He was a Jew, so he observed the Jewish Sabbath. As I said, you want to be a Jew and observe the Jewish Sabbath, go right ahead, but as Paul says:


But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. (Gal. 3:11-12)

Again, I ask you -- is Paul in hell for worshiping on Sunday, and for encouraging others to do the same?
edit on 20-2-2013 by adjensen because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 09:24 AM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


Can you please explain the significance of the Matthew 15:19-20 verse. By not including idol worship, putting God as ones highest priority and above all else, coveting, and Sabbath that the absence of these mentioned somehow is not defiling to a man or important to God as well?

Matthew 19:16-19
This passage has an absence of similar commandments as your Matthew 15:19-20 but this time blasphemy is absent from the list as well. The list is exclusively dealing with aspects of how people interact with each other which is what the last 6 commandments of the 10 commandments deal with. The rich young man is asking what deeds he must do. Jesus gives him a list dealing with human relations which the young man says he has done. What does Jesus say next...."if you want to be made perfect sell all you possessions, give them to the poor and follow me"

Was following the commandments just on human relations enough...No, so what does that tell you about the worth of Matthew 15:19-20 in isolation.

Jesus knew the man had an issue about being attached to his worldly possession so framed the message on the area he lacked, emphasizing whether his love for God was more important to him that money. So what commandments are dealing with one prioritizing God and showing Him love?

Matthew 22:26-40
I made a brief mention of this passage in support of the Sabbath to Adjensen already but I will flesh it out a bit more for you in the context of your verses in this post as well.

Your Matthew 15:19-20 was a mixture of commandments dealing mostly with human relations, and your Matthew 19 passage dealt exclusively with human relations until we are told shortly after this the importance of following God. Now in your Matthew 22 passage we see that Jesus actually prioritizing the summarizing commandment of loving you God first which is not the impression we might have got from Matthew 15 and 22 right?

Loving your neighbor as yourself is also a summary statement to reflect the principles of commandments 5 through 10. We also know that these two summarizing commandments contain within themselves all the principles of the law and the prophets teachings.

So was do the prophets teach about the Sabbath...

Ezekiel 20:12
Moreover also I gave [5414] them my sabbaths, [7676] to be a sign [0226] between me and them, that they might know [3045] that I [am] the LORD [3068] that sanctify [6942] them.

Ezekiel 20:20
And hallow [6942] my sabbaths; [7676] and they shall be a sign [0226] between me and you, that ye may know [3045] that I [am] the LORD [3068] your God. [0430]
source


What is the word meaning of this strongs #0226 word?

SIGN: Hebrew: 'owth', meaning - sign, token, ensign, mark, a distinguishing mark, signal, banner, remembrance
source 1
source 2


Do you think keeping God's commandment that specifically deals with showing that you are God's particular people to the exclusion of any other god is showing love to God? Did you think keeping God's mark might be important for us in the Tribulation when we have the beast's mark false-Sabbath Sunday come in?

In talking about the New Covenant we here Jeremiah describe it like this:

31 "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."
—Jeremiah 31:31–34


How is it described who this new covenant would be with that is the covenant for Christians to follow....”With the house of Israel and the house of Judah”


Exodus 31:17 It is a sign [Hebrew - 'Owth'] between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed


So when Moses says that the Sabbath is God’s distinguishing mark between Him and His people of the new covenant (the children of Israel) do you think He is referring to Christians?

Isaiah is a prophet and he tells us to keep the Sabbath (Isaiah 56:6,7, Isaiah 58:13,14) as part of the terms of the new covenant.

What are we told to do from the prophet John in his prophetic visions written in Revelation to combat the beast who forces people to worship his image (Rev. 13:15).To set ourselves up in opposition to this apostate worship we are told to...

Revelation 14:7 ... Worship the one who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water


So how do we distinguish ourselves that follow the Creator...is there a commandment that makes any mention specific to being unique to the Creator?

Is it any coincidence then that in the giving on the 4th commandment on the Sabbath that an also identical description clearly identifying the Creator is given?

Exodus 20:11 'For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it


Is it any coincidence that the Sabbath is God’s distinguishing mark of His people FOREVER (Exodus 31:17)

Is it any coincidence that the Catholic Church has their own “Sign” to distinguish themselves too!
The Catholic Church says:


"Is not yet too late for Protestants to redeem themselves. Will they do it?... will they indeed take the written word only, the Scripture alone, as their sole authority and their sole standard? Or will they still hold the indefensible, self contradictory, and suicidal doctrine and practice of following the authority of the Catholic church and wear the SIGN of her authority? Will they keep the Sabbath of the Lord, the seventh day, according to Scripture? Or will they keep the Sunday according to the tradition of the Catholic church
Rome's Challenge


We know that the Catholic church changed the worship from Sabbath to Sunday, they admit as much:

The Catholic church for over one thousand years before the existence of a Protestant, by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday
- James Cardinal Gibbons in the Catholic Mirror, September 23, 1983


So you would naturally think that the Catholic church would openly bad mouth the Sabbath commandment and Seventh-Day Adventist’s for keeping it and promoting for others to keep...well, what (are just a few statements of many) do we find the Catholic church say:


“Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. ‘The day of the Lord’ was chosen, not from any direction noted in the Scriptures, but from the (Catholic) Church’s sense of its own power...People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy.” — St. Catherine Church Sentinel, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995.



The Adventists are the only body of Christians with the Bible as their teacher, who could find no warrant in its pages for the change of day from the seventh to the first. Hence their appellation," Seventh-day Adventists. "They're cardinal principle consists in setting apart Saturday for the exclusive worship of God, in conformity with the positive command of God Himself, repeatedly reiterated in the sacred books of the Old and New testaments, literally kept by the children of Israel for thousands of years to this day, and endorsed by the teaching and practice of the Son of God while on earth.
Rome's Challenge


The Catholic church approves of Adventist’s interpretation of scripture knowing our understanding of the verses is spot on correct in relation to the Sabbath?


“Most Christians assume that Sunday is the biblically approved day of worship. The Catholic Church protests that it transferred Christian worship from the biblical Sabbath (Saturday) to Sunday, and that to try to argue that the change was made in the Bible is both dishonest and a denial of Catholic authority. If Protestantism wants to base its teachings only on the Bible, it should worship on Saturday.” Rome's Challenge

edit on 21-2-2013 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 10:02 AM
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reply to post by JesuitGarlic
 



“Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. ‘The day of the Lord’ was chosen, not from any direction noted in the Scriptures, but from the (Catholic) Church’s sense of its own power...People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy.” — St. Catherine Church Sentinel, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995.

The underlined passage there is flat out wrong -- the Catholic church did not "change the Sabbath", and explicitly says so in the Catechism. The Jewish Sabbath is still what it was, just as the Judaic Law of Leviticus, for example, is still what it was.

The question is whether salvation hangs on a technicality, which particular day you view as being appropriate for worship, and whether we are bound by that, or whether Christ liberated us from it. The SDA claims it does hang on a technicality, everyone else claims it doesn't.

The "it doesn't matter" argument is bolstered by the words of Christ. The "it does matter" is bolstered by the words of the false prophet Ellen White, so it should come as little surprise that the vast majority of people do not subscribe to the SDA doctrine that results in the belief that people are saved by works (Saturday worship) and works alone.

(ETA: I know that you won't read it, but for the benefit of others who may be interested in the "truth" of Ellen White, here is Does Mrs. White Pass the Biblical Tests of a Prophet?. As I have stated before, in my opinion, ONE failed prophecy demonstrates that one is not a prophet of God, so White's repeated "the world will end on..." predictions obviously disqualify her, never mind the myriad of other failures.)


edit on 21-2-2013 by adjensen because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 11:53 AM
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The cause for anyone to fail is a world divided, believers as well fall to this separation because of pride,envy,greed and jealousy and all other things that dwell on darkness and lust. Boundaries keep love apart from the flocks of sheep that are lost because of hypocrisy of their own human traditions and power. Lost in your denomination because you feel your church is better and calling those lost sheep damned is a call not to be made by you.

Love is not religion and love is not a nation and it's not what Christ taught but to be patient with those who long and search for meaning because without them they can't uncover truths. All of you have a purpose and all will have a chance to see the power of God shortly and many will see and even the hardest skeptic on this site will believe. Things are in place for you to discover and of course there will be tests and it's up to you to find the fruit in what you discover because some will come to deceive and discredit.

Let go your traditions for the church is corrupted and is about to fall a great fall and will test many and the followers will see the darkness that operate it and all those that followed her will see. your body is your temple and the light of the lord shines through your heart and is the way to God.



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by JesuitGarlic
 


Just so you know, the verses that you quoted from Jeremiah 31 and Exodus 31 were all relating to the New Covenant being the time of the Millennium, it has nothing to do with the Sabbath being a Saturday.

The "day of rest" for the Jews will be the Millennial period where Jesus himself will reign from Jerusalem for 1,000 years. That is the sign. That is the oath. That is the promise. It has nothing to do with a day of the week.

What we know is that during the Millennial period that everything everyone needs to know will be written on their heart (just like the verses say) so that they don't have to worry about what's written. Everything they/we practice before that time will be forgiven (just like the verses say) and we'll all know the truth.

Practicing or not practicing the Sabbath is not a requirement for salvation nor is it a mark. That's not to say that the Jews won't be practicing the Sabbath during the Millennium, as they may well be, but they "will know the Lord" based on what's written on their hearts and it has nothing to do with a day of the week.

Is there some significance in the symbolism of "six days" and "the seventh day"? Most likely, as we know that the Jews were told to harvest their crops for six consecutive years and then give the land a rest on the seventh year. But like I said, there's more to the meaning than one specific day of the week.

Once again, salvation is only relevant to believing who Jesus said he was and what he came here to do. The rest will be forgiven. Just like all of those other broken commandments.



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 



Just so you know, the verses that you quoted from Jeremiah 31 and Exodus 31 were all relating to the New Covenant being the time of the Millennium, it has nothing to do with the Sabbath being a Saturday.


This is incorrect,

Exodus 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.


It is clearly stated in relation to the 7 day week. There is no death for people in the new heaven and the new earth so people being put to death in the 1000 year initial period we are in Heaven going through the records (as per Revelation 20) while Satan remains chained down to the Earth for this period with no one to tempt is not what Jeremiah 31 and Exodus 31 are about.


The "day of rest" for the Jews will be the Millennial period where Jesus himself will reign from Jerusalem for 1,000 years. That is the sign. That is the oath. That is the promise. It has nothing to do with a day of the week.


The new covenant is related to the promise of Heaven and eternal life. As part of this promise we are to be first taken to the Heavenly city (literal Heaven). This period of time is focused on the saints (i.e those redeemed in the first resurrection going through the life records of everyone to judge them and see that God's judgement for those you made it into the book of life and those who didn't was just)


Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


I don't know about you but, if the New Covenant is just about reading the life records of people for 1000 years then I don't think that will get too many people excited for long!

Jesus is not reigning from Jerusalem or just for the Jews for 1000 years. Jesus is reigning with all the redeemed in Heaven for 1000 years. When the 1000 years is ended the heavenly city is transported down to Earth where we see the Heavenly city (literal heaven) now referred to as the New Jerusalem.


Revelation 21:1,2 and 10 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband....[10]He showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven.


We don't just reign with Jesus 1000 years in Heaven, the heavenly city comes down to the New Earth (which still has to undertake the final Judgment on those in the second resurrection to erase them from existence forever) and Jesus reigns then on His throne forever on the New Earth (not just 1000 years or else it would not be eternal life, right)


Revelation 22:1, 5...And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb....[5]And there shall be no night there; and they need no lamp, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God gives them light: and they shall reign forever and ever.



What we know is that during the Millennial period that everything everyone needs to know will be written on their heart (just like the verses say) so that they don't have to worry about what's written. Everything they/we practice before that time will be forgiven (just like the verses say)


The millennial period has nothing to do with it.


Deuteronomy 6: 4-8 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes[foreheads, NIV 1984 edition].



Deuteronomy 11:8,18 Therefore you shall keep every commandment that I have commanded you today...18 Therefore you shall lay up these words of mine in your heart and in your soul, and bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes [foreheads, NIV 1984 edition]


God’s commandments were to be written in their hearts that day (because they were to love God), not way latter on after the first resurrection. It can clearly be seen that if a person keeps God’s commandments by attuning their minds and actions to His Law that this is God’s mark on their hands and forehead (God’s answer to the Beast’s mark)


Exodus 13: 9 (and verse16) And it shall be for a sign unto you upon your hand, and for a memorial before your eyes, that the LORD'S law may be in your mouth: for with a strong hand has the LORD brought you out of Egypt.



Practicing or not practicing the Sabbath is not a requirement for salvation

It is one of many things apart of salvation (for those who live according to the highest truth)


nor is it a mark.

The dictionary definition says it is a mark...so that is factually incorrect


That's not to say that the Jews won't be practicing the Sabbath during the Millennium

The Sabbath is practiced in the New Heaven (for 1000 years) and the New Earth [Isaiah 66:22, 23](Forever more) by EVERYONE....what kind of a weird Heaven do you envision where a certain group are meant to do something and others don’t have to for all eternity, just for the sheer thrill!


But like I said, there's more to the meaning than one specific day of the week.

Yes, there are multiple meanings of giving something a rest on the principle of 1 out of 7. Giving the land a rest (for a year out of 7), giving us a rest from Satan’s temptations (for 1000 years out of the approx 6000 years he is to rule earth). The Sabbath is initially about weekly rest (Genesis 2:3) and this is hammered home time after time throughout the Bible. Trying to reframe the original and main meaning so you can somehow feel like it isn’t meant for you is not be honest with ones self intellectually (wilfully believing lie rather than unconsciously).


Once again, salvation is only relevant to believing who Jesus said he was and what he came here to do. The rest will be forgiven.

Incorrect!


Hebrews 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,


James 4:17 Whoever knows the good and does not do it, to him it is sin.



Matthew 25:11,12 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.



1 John 2:3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.



Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.


The Bible makes what you have just said very clear, it does not support what you have assumed at all. The only way you can hold that position is to ignore Truth in the Bible (thus not be living truth to its fullest and completest potential)

When we accept God into our lives and receive the Holy Spirit we are not immune from sinning no more, the Spirit doesn't put us on autopilot like a brainless robot so that we keep from sinning.


Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


The righteousness of the Law isn't fulfilled in us automatically, it MIGHT BE fulfilled in us if we do what the Spirit asks and follow the Spirits warning when we are about to do wrong.

Because,

Philippians 4:13 For I can do everything through Christ, who gives me strength.

People have to be sincere in listening to God and following the Spirit, it can strength us when we are weak to temptation. If we do not follow the Spirit we reject God, and sincere repentance will need to be sort.


He that saith, I know him, and keepth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4
edit on 21-2-2013 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 06:54 PM
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reply to post by JesuitGarlic
 


It looks like you need to do some more research on the Millennium, as it is a period that will happen here on earth before the "New Jerusalem" or heaven is sent down to replace it. That's why Satan is released after the 1,000 years is over to try and deceive the nations one more time. This is not something he would be able to do in heaven.

The Millennium is an actual period of peace here on earth, just like God promised. If you know the Bible, than you know that this period is filled with old people with canes as well as children. There will be no need for canes in heaven nor will there be a need for a differential between old people and young people. In heaven, people won't be multiplying, but they will be during the Millennial period because it's here on earth.

Here are some references for you:

Deuteronomy 28:1-2
Deuteronomy 30:1-10
Isaiah 65
Jeremiah 31
Zechariah 8

These links with scripture posted might help too.

www.compellingtruth.org...

www.gotquestions.org...





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