Independent Study Proves Guns Don’t Kill People *Shocking Evidence

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
reply to post by seabag

 

We never had the Wild West period like you guys. It's the Wild West mentality that lives on in America. Guns were never deemed as the essential tool Americans did. Massive cultural differences between our two nations. In fact we should be walking around with bow and arrows, to more reflect our cultural history with weapons.

I'm sure our perspectives would differ had we been born in each others respective nations

edit on 16-2-2013 by woodwardjnr because: (no reason given)

I like the idea of bows and arrows.... but then someone is going to kill another person with one unlawfully or during a robbery and the bleeding hearts will seek to have them banned... and then we would all be back in the same boat again as if the crime was committed with a gun. Anything can be used as a weapon. After seeing the damage a razor tipped broad head arrow can cause from a decent compound bow compared to a bullet I would pick the bullet any day of the week. Guns are tools, hammers are tools they both can be used to kill. Tens of thousands of people have been hacked apart in Africa by machetes and sharpened lawnmower blades. Americas cultural history is guns, we used them to hunt, to pioneer and to gain our freedom from the oppression the the British Monarchy. Our forefathers saw fit that we should always be armed to better protect ourselves, ironically enough from our own government. There would still be violence without guns, there still is violence in those parts of the world without guns and on massive scales.

Originally posted by liverlad
Haha, maybe America should of thoght about that when they decided to stick their nose in everyone elses business. This is the modern world, and when such a big nation like America has very outdated gun laws, it is going to cause a lot of headlines around the world.

Sorry, I'm not done reading this thread, but THAT quote had me laughing out loud coming from an Englishman.

So tell me, just how many countries did England have their noses stuck into in their history? Seriously....

reply to post by seabag

hahahahahaha

Mod Note : One Line Posts - Please Read This

GUNS dont Kill people nor do the Operators. Bullets kill people

Originally posted by AlexIR
reply to post by seabag

 

Please tell me you're kidding, this is a joke and you're just having a laugh with us.

If now i must tell you that you are a person who has some problems.

A gun is a tool for killing not a killer, and is the most effective killing tool out there at the moment. There are deranged people who use these 'tools' to kill people for no good reason and the most logical way for a government to reduce the risk is to highly regulate these 'tools' and hope it will become difficult for deranged people to get hold of one and start shooting.

For the explanation you gave in the OP i have no words, i mean there are two images that came to mind after finishing and i hope you're not offended but this was my interpretation: a redneck sitting in his southern home looking at his gun while typing on a computer and a trailer trash that was looking at his gun, afraid that the feds will burst in and take it which will prove that this was all a conspiracy.

The problem with part of what you have stated is along the lines of deranged people getting their hands on guns. When it comes to these mass shootings many of the killers were fairly normal and they would come across to those who knew them as anything but deranged.

I am bipolar and I am no danger at all to go on some killing spree or to kill anyone unless it is in my own or the people I loves self defense. Most so called mentally ill people even without the help of prescription medicine are not a threat to others. At least not in the way of killing them. In fact the real danger is the danger mental illness poses to those who are mentally ill. In most instances the deaths caused by those deemed mentally ill are suicides. Guns tend to be the most handy and quickest way to take ones own life.

I feel that sometimes with the sensationalism of violent crimes by the media and our pop culture that young people become desensitized to violence. Watch a lot of movies and tv these days and what you see is a lot of killing and usually it comes across as cool. Some of our killers here in the USA kill because they want to know if it is like in the movies. Also in regards to gangs and their violence it seems that in much of our music, movies and tv shows that gangs and violence is to be admired, Even though the good guys usually win the bad guys always seem to be sure of themselves and in control. Going out in a blaze of glory seems to be the way many young people see themselves. It is as if when these mass shootings happen the perps consider themselves actors in a movie.

I know that guns are not the problem and I in no way think that we should give up our right to own them however as a society we owe it to ourselves to look at root causes and to simply chalk these mass shootings and gang violence up to mentally ill people and those who are deranged is dropping the ball.

We Americans can be very mean and also we tend to ignore and falsely label those we do not understand. Those we see as outcast are treated as if they were pond scum. Simply because they don't fit in with our conformist ways as to what is in and what is not. Insensitivity and self serving vanity by some pushes weak minded people over the edge. Does that mean those people who kill others should be exonerated and looked at as victims? No. Even in a culture that sensationalizes violence we still all know right from wrong. However let us not think that some peoples insensitivity and disregard is okay and does not lead some who are not crazy but weak minded in the direction or murder.

All one has to do to see root causes of some people committing mass murder is to read many forums for debate such as this one. This one has been civil but the meanness people show to one another in most instances leaves me no doubt why things tend to escalate to violence, many times in the guise of guns.

Criminal background checks and any other gun laws will not do as much as changing our culture just a tad and teaching our kids to be kind and understanding as well as accepting of all people. Some decency and civility that is the real way to bring about change.

reply to post by kdyam

you stated that a person is 4.5 time more likely to get shot if they are carrying a gun. What is your basis for this?

Something called science......

Most of us are aware of studies that show that having a firearm in the home increases rather than decreases your chance of violent injury or death — usually through accidents or suicide. I was not aware of this peer-reviewed 2009 study by the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine study which concluded that people in possession of a gun were 4.5 times more likely to be shot during an assault than those who didn’t have a firearm….

www.forbes.com...

Originally posted by cornucopia
my brain tells me that a gun can/does kill life, that's why they were created.

Actually at first when the CHINESE invented explosive powder it was created for get this FIREWORKS.... The powder was put into specially made cannons to shoot bright breathtaking light shows in the sky... They are now called mortar shots.. It was not for years later that it was discovered they could shoot projectiles out of these cannons AT people to kill. What everyone thinks the history of guns has been a hellish kill em' up death machine created for killing ARE WRONG...

Fireworks were invented in ancient China in the 10th century to scare away evil spirits. Fireworks are generally classified as to where they perform, either as a ground or aerial firework. In the latter case they may provide their own propulsion (skyrocket) or be shot into the air by a mortar (aerial shell). The most common feature of fireworks is a paper or pasteboard tube or casing filled with the combustible material, often pyrotechnic stars. A number of these tubes or cases are often combined so as to make, when kindled, a great variety of sparkling shapes, often variously colored.

Fireworks not guns

While everyone wants to blame the gun for murders, they forget the nature of a violent man or women who would use these tools to hurt and kill.. This experiment has proven EVERYONE who wants to take guns away WRONG!

reply to post by seabag


Guns dont kill people. People with guns kill people sometimes. Sometimes people with guns dont kill people. And sometimes people with guns kill animals. Pretty simple IMO.

Originally posted by MisterFister103
If I were to decide tomorrow that I want to go out and kill as many people in a movie theater as I could. I take a baseball bat into the theater, I might be able to kill one, and everyone just thinks I'm some nut that snapped and we count our blessings that I didn't have a more powerful means of death. I am a minor footnote at the end of a newscast. If I take in a gun of some sort, I'd probably be able to pop 20+ people and I'm all over the news for the next week.

This debate is beyond stupid, and I'm tired of people like the OP making empty points.

SuperSoakers (a watergun brand) are legal.

Gasoline (petrol, for the UK members) is legal.

SuperSoaker + gasoline in a crowded theater= a whole lot of dead and injured moviegoers. (before anyone says the word sprinklers.... let me see the sprinklers go off in time to save those ignited)

Guns are not the only devices capable of killing people en mass.

The above combination is not only legal.... it is not regulated or restricted, as firearms are!

Oh, I forgot to add..... Try the old 'Stop, Drop and Roll' when you are seated in a crowded theater.

Originally posted by Mike.Ockizard
reply to post by seabag

 

Guns dont kill people. People with guns kill people sometimes. Sometimes people with guns dont kill people. And sometimes people with guns kill animals. Pretty simple IMO.

Simple and to the point...I like you, Mike.

Now here's a simple question. If we want to decrease the killing, does it make more sense to direct our attention towards addressing the conditions that drive some people to kill or going after the hundreds of potential instruments those people may use to kill??

It seems to be a common argument by the pro gun fraternity that guns are needed for protection.

But you wouldn't need protection if the police were doing their job.

Why don't you lobby the White House, or your state govt (I don't know how it works over there) for better policing?

You all seem very assertive in demanding your rights over all sorts of issues, yet strangely apathetic when it comes to demanding that the police should improve their record on fighting crime.

I don't understand.

Because then you wouldn't need guns.

But I bet even then you'd still want to hang onto them, eh?

And that's really what threads like this are about: tradition.

Doesn't matter how sound the arguments......people don't like change.

If you will go to this thread you will run across a poster zonetripper2065 who thinks that men are just animals and that they are just acting on instinct as such.

I dont agree but if we teach and program our kids from cradle to grave that they are just evolved animals, violent type of people will engendered into society animals.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by MisterFister103
If I were to decide tomorrow that I want to go out and kill as many people in a movie theater as I could. I take a baseball bat into the theater, I might be able to kill one, and everyone just thinks I'm some nut that snapped and we count our blessings that I didn't have a more powerful means of death. I am a minor footnote at the end of a newscast. If I take in a gun of some sort, I'd probably be able to pop 20+ people and I'm all over the news for the next week.

This debate is beyond stupid, and I'm tired of people like the OP making empty points.

TRUTH...


difficult for some to see, lol

Originally posted by ChesterJohn
If you will go to this thread you will run across a poster zonetripper2065 who thinks that men are just animals and that they are just acting on instinct as such.

I dont agree but if we teach and program our kids from cradle to grave that they are just evolved animals, violent type of people will engendered into society animals.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 18-2-2013 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)

I heard a story on AM radio this morning that a study has been done linking the amount of TV a person watched as a child to the number of violent crimes they commit later in life.
I did not do a search for the study yet.

reply to post by CJCrawley

It seems to be a common argument by the pro gun fraternity that guns are needed for protection.

But you wouldn't need protection if the police were doing their job.

Why don't you lobby the White House, or your state govt (I don't know how it works over there) for better policing?

The police do their job, for the most part. The problem is that the police cannot be everywhere at once. There simply aren’t enough police to do that, nor do we WANT that many more police!

I live in a rural area. In my county, at any given time of day, there are only about 10-15 deputies on duty to cover 882 SQUARE MILES! There are nearly 100,000 residents in my county. The chances of a deputy making it to my house in time to protect my family in a violent situation are slim.

Besides, who cares more about my life and the lives of my family than ME?

Answer – NOBODY!

reply to post by MisterFister103

If I were to decide tomorrow that I want to go out and kill as many people in a movie theater as I could. I take a baseball bat into the theater, I might be able to kill one, and everyone just thinks I'm some nut that snapped and we count our blessings that I didn't have a more powerful means of death. I am a minor footnote at the end of a newscast. If I take in a gun of some sort, I'd probably be able to pop 20+ people and I'm all over the news for the next week.

This debate is beyond stupid, and I'm tired of people like the OP making empty points.

Let me tell you what is beyond stupid, bud!

Thinking that some dumb arse in Washington DC is going to sign a piece of paper and miraculously all of the guns in America are going to vanish from the hands of criminals!

That is REALLY stupid!

reply to post by mmitsch7

GUNS dont Kill people nor do the Operators. Bullets kill people

After 34 pages and hundreds of intelligent responses from ATS members, that’s what you’ve concluded??? Bullets kill people???

Maybe you missed the test in the OP. Are you saying that had I left some bullets on the porch then a mass shooting would have occurred resulting in death??

Inanimate objects don’t kill people. If they did, your t-shirt would have strangled you this morning!

reply to post by cornucopia

TRUTH...


difficult for some to see, lol

You’re right…the truth is difficult for some to see. Take a listen to one of the best arguments against gun control I’ve ever heard. This is from a LEGAL immigrant who apparently has more sense than most of the bozos we have in DC (and some people on this forum).



Thanks for the video, Buster2010!

Originally posted by seabag

Take a listen to one of the best arguments against gun control I’ve ever heard.

The man is just repeating NRA talking points and his Tianamen Square example is beyond naive.

reply to post by cripmeister


Oh, you didn't like it?

Well try and shoot down this one...it's even better.

This woman wasn’t able to defend herself because of current gun law (at the time). Where were the police to save those people who died?? Where were the police during all of the recent mass shootings? Why should people with a 2nd amendment rely on others for their protection when it often doesn't happen??