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Independent Study Proves Guns Don’t Kill People *Shocking Evidence

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posted on Feb, 17 2013 @ 04:45 PM
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Ok guys, you convinced me.

Now I dont think anymore that gun bans would solve problems. If everyone had a gun, it would make them more equal. If only some groups have guns, that dont mean it is more fair or justice. We dont need to give guns to literally all, but to somewhat normal persons, like driving licence. So now when everyone has gun, everyone are aware of that, well that dont mean we would just start shooting at each other. That things cant be connected at all.

So at the end, I changed my mind since I got better information than before. People should have guns, and not to defend from other people, but to defend from organisations and gouvernements.

If gouvernement or organisation wants to take away our guns, then it has hidden motives and wants to take away power from people, and that cant be good because then they position themselves in place of power.

Good work ppl

edit on 17-2-2013 by poweref because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 17 2013 @ 04:47 PM
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posted on Feb, 17 2013 @ 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by Lichter daraus
reply to post by cripmeister
 


Not sure how true it but last i heard guns sales have gone up because the gov wants to pass stricter gun laws.


Sure but who are the buyers? What percentage are first time gun owners and what percentage already own a gun? As I understand it the increasing sales have been of firearms that are subject to a potential ban, like the AR15 type firearms. This leads me to suspect that the buyers are mostly people who already own guns. If this is the case then the increase in sales will have little or no effect on gun ownership.



posted on Feb, 17 2013 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by something wicked
 


Nope sorry, and besides this thread is not about if the title is correct or not so please stay on topic.



posted on Feb, 17 2013 @ 04:49 PM
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I really enjoyed reading this. I appreciate the point made through this
tongue in cheek method. Nicely done.



posted on Feb, 17 2013 @ 04:53 PM
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Originally posted by flana23
im so sick of these boards being flooded with american's complaining about guns and conspiracies.
at the end of the day u do not need guns,if nobody was allowed guns you wouldnt need one to protect yourself.
guns are illegal in Britain,thus we havnt had any mass school shootings in how long??? EVER!!
i dont understand how a country is willing to risk there childrens and there lifes just to have a gun?

i hope guns get banned for your sakes,so every kid that has a bad day doesnt have the ability to kill dozens of innocent people.. I DONT LIKE MONDAYS.......



no see what you fail to understand is if we lose our weapons the criminals don't give a rat's ass about laws or bannings they will have weapons and we will not be able to defend ourselves. where there's a will there's a way and those criminals will get their guns.

Ps. come live on our country for a while, you might change your mind. I still think no country has any right to tell any other country what to do regardless of what has happened in the past its 2013 people get over it.
edit on 07/16/2009 by Lichter daraus because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2013 @ 05:00 PM
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Im just thinking this way:

If all people had gun now, well yes hell on earth would be, for some time, until all those "movie warriors" wont calm down. Now with guns bigger issue, people wouldnt need to create toilette movies like Django, because, most likely people would be enough of violence.

Now with enough guns indeed what would happen next? When you consider that more carefully, you will see that if we dont solve media popularizing violence, we wont do anything good. If we allow guns and in the same time allow movie and showbusiness industry to create movies like django then we would do even greater damage.

Dont get me wrong for django, I would ban 90% of Hollywood movies, I know ppl are crazy for this shi. but im nor like other ppl.
edit on 17-2-2013 by poweref because: just killed django



posted on Feb, 17 2013 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by Lichter daraus
reply to post by something wicked
 


Nope sorry, and besides this thread is not about if the title is correct or not so please stay on topic.


Ok, I will take your responses to mean you agree with the op and for some reason you are the one who decides the Ts & Cs. Fairly much hard to debate with someone who assumes they are right from the get go so just please stop responding to my comments, I'm not interested in such a one sided opinion,



posted on Feb, 17 2013 @ 05:10 PM
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In the name of fairness, please would it be possible for an independent study in the same vain relating to whether gun's protect people?



posted on Feb, 17 2013 @ 05:22 PM
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Nothing gets me more than trying to ban guns because they think guns kill people. And MSM gets me when they make up their own statistics!



posted on Feb, 17 2013 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by chrome413
 
Bravo!!! The best and most sensible post so far.



posted on Feb, 17 2013 @ 05:25 PM
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Originally posted by woodwardjnr
reply to post by seabag
 


We never had the Wild West period like you guys. It's the Wild West mentality that lives on in America. Guns were never deemed as the essential tool Americans did. Massive cultural differences between our two nations. In fact we should be walking around with bow and arrows, to more reflect our cultural history with weapons.

I'm sure our perspectives would differ had we been born in each others respective nations
edit on 16-2-2013 by woodwardjnr because: (no reason given)



wow. and just when I was about to give up, someone comes up with the answer. America and England are two different places. Culturally...especially concerning guns. The best we can do is agree to disagree. Because if you live here, you probably own a gun or two, and if I lived there I wouldn't own any.

What's that saying "until you've walked a mile in another mans shoes...". or something.

All I know is there are alot of criminals out there. In every country, thats a fact, and me personally, especially as I get older, and can't out run, or physically beat up 2 or 3 teenagers like I could when I was 24. Being a handful of years from 40, and with family to protect, I feel safe owning 2 guns. Nothing crazy a lever action 30/30 ,and a 30.06 for hunting. The lever action would be for home defense, although I'm gonna be getting a shotgun within a month or so. Bottom line if 2 people wanna break into my house with bats or knives or evenm just thier fists, a gun is gonna be the only sure way I can defend my family and my property and my belongings.

I don't understand how you can sleep well in England when someone lunatic ondrugs could break into your home with a bat and basically kill your entire family, and you have no defense. But again we we're raised from 1780 to now to have cultural differences. Glad we won that Revolution :p

But seriously it seems like a nice place to live either way, the US or England. As posted, we're alike in so many ways. I do consider you my allies, and I know if WW3 were to break out England would be right with the US
We make a great team!

But I just find it a bit annoying when threads about AMERICAN laws that will affect AMERICANS are filled with so many posts from people who don't live here (Mainly Britians), who think they know what will work best for us. Trust me, we have first hand experience with this situation for over 200 years. Your 15-50 years on this earth will not give you the insight to no what it's like to live in America and gone through what we have. You don't find American's in threads demanding that England should have the right to carry and bear arms.

We made that law after driving out the British, it was one of the first laws made, that's how important it was.., and still is. Maybe that is a sore point for you? I dunno.

But I remeber hearing a story of some old guy like 80 yrs old...old in England, who shot a tresspasser who broke into his home and the old guy was charged with manslaughter or second degree murder. Probably only got 4-7 years. Another cultural different. You commit murder here in the US, your gonna go away for a long time if not for life. In Other countries like England I've seen people get 7 years for 1st degree murder and second degree murder time and time again. Yes I'm an ID channel addict.

But yea let's just agree that we have no idea how we'd react if we were born in that other country. Let's not poke in our comments where they don't belong. You live over there, we live here, what does it matter? if anything I would imagine the Working class Brit would support Americans right to bear arms. Do they really wan't to deal with am America that resembles the height of the 3rd Reich on Steroids??? I'd think not.



posted on Feb, 17 2013 @ 05:32 PM
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Originally posted by something wicked

Originally posted by Lichter daraus
reply to post by something wicked
 


Nope sorry, and besides this thread is not about if the title is correct or not so please stay on topic.


Ok, I will take your responses to mean you agree with the op and for some reason you are the one who decides the Ts & Cs. Fairly much hard to debate with someone who assumes they are right from the get go so just please stop responding to my comments, I'm not interested in such a one sided opinion,



I dont decide the t&c, i just try to fallow them. If thats how you feel then i guess you shouldnt have responded back to me in the first place. obviously I agree with the op what gave it away?
Its was just satire thread and your in here complaining about the title, and that is off topic as nobody is talking about if the title is right or wrong.



posted on Feb, 17 2013 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by Logos23
In the name of fairness, please would it be possible for an independent study in the same vain relating to whether gun's protect people?


you mean another satirical thread about whether or not guns protect people?
Or a legit study? I dont think that would be a bad idea at all.



posted on Feb, 17 2013 @ 05:57 PM
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Originally posted by Nola213


I don't understand how you can sleep well in England when someone lunatic ondrugs could break into your home with a bat and basically kill your entire family, and you have no defense. But again we we're raised from 1780 to now to have cultural differences. Glad we won that Revolution :p



yes maybe it is a cultural difference....but the biggest majority of English people sleep very well without gun's for defence. The situation you described would be very very highly unlikely to happen and as such it's not something that figures very highly in our thoughts....if at all! We don't tend to have a "just in case" mentality and our thought's and concern's aren't acted on disproportionately to the actual scale of the threat.

I have many thing's to worry about in this life....but being murdered, raped,or attacked aren't any of them!


I agree that it is frustrating for communities from different nation's to profess to know what's best for each other...I don't think it help's that our government's do that also on a grand scale!. I know I have fallen into that trap at time's and yes it's rather arrogant.
I prefer to think that the difference's between nation's are scope to learn something new or gain a new perspective ...so sometime's what may appear as poking comments where they don't belong may actually be someone on a learning curve....without discussion or debate that's not possible.



posted on Feb, 17 2013 @ 06:01 PM
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reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
 





Next time try replicating those results by leaving a loaded gun in the cafeteria of a supermax prison and tell my if the results are replicated.


That really serves to bolster the argument in the OP.

Leaving a gun in the cafeteria of a supermax prison full of criminals, one might fully expect the gun to be used to kill someone

It is the presence of a criminal operator that makes the gun an instrument of crime.



posted on Feb, 17 2013 @ 06:03 PM
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reply to post by Nola213
 


Bravo! Outstanding post!

Despite our differences, we are allies through and through, but we do have differences us Americans and Brits.

Wouldn't the World be a totally boring place if everyone was exactly the same, just one big homogenous glob of people? I love the British, even though I don't always agree with them I like them all the same.

It's differences that make the world go around.



posted on Feb, 17 2013 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by Lichter daraus

Originally posted by Logos23
In the name of fairness, please would it be possible for an independent study in the same vain relating to whether gun's protect people?


you mean another satirical thread about whether or not guns protect people?
Or a legit study? I dont think that would be a bad idea at all.


well I think a satirical thread would be pretty pointless and using the same logic as the OP we all know what the outcome would be....

I suppose I'm just making the point that the whole issue surrounding gun's is way more complex than proving that gun's by themselves dont kill or protect people.

I'm always up for a legit study...I've learnt a lot about the gun culture in the US the last couple of months...unfortunately it's not always easy to get good and thought provoking information as a lot of the gun debate conversation's are born and driven out of emotion's and pride rather than nitty gritty logic....and to be clear I am talking about both side's of the gun debate and not calling either side out.



posted on Feb, 17 2013 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by Logos23
 


Yes, i totally agree, a legit study with out the emotion would be great. Im interested in seeing the resaults.

Ps. I was kind of just goofin with my first question, sorry.



posted on Feb, 17 2013 @ 07:01 PM
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And back and forth we go. What both sides here seem to be missing are the real issues we face on gun related deaths.

Fact #1
14% of the US population commits 50% of its homicides

Fact #2 - # 5
2 Americans aged 15 to 24 are the most at risk for gun homicide, but the ratio of gun homicides to accidental deaths for this group was just 1 to 3 (all races).

3. The majority of American gun homicides (54 percent) take the lives of black Americans, who constitute just 14 percent of the total population.

4. Homicide is the leading cause of death only for black Americans aged 15 to 34, with 87.4 percent of all homicides for this group caused by guns.

Facts #6 - #8 (taken from the above link)

6. After declining substantially over 10 years, gun suicides rates have significantly increased each year since 2006 (for all races and ages).

7. Since 1993 the rate of gun suicides has been higher than both gun homicides and accidental gun deaths combined (all races and ages).

8. The ratio of gun suicides to gun homicides for white Americans is 3.1 to 1 and is the highest across all races, with whites aged 15 to 34 being most at risk.

What are the takeaways from this info?

The “black elephant” in the room is the disproportionately large problem of gun homicides for black Americans. There is clearly a cause for grave concern with respect to blacks aged 15 to 34 years....


The “white elephant” in the room is the fact that whites face a comparatively serious but distinctly different problem of gun related suicide, especially for people aged 15 to 34. In this context however, and from a quantitative point of view, this white elephant is secondary in importance to the black elephant in two important respects. First, gun suicide is not the leading cause of death for whites aged 15 to 34, accidents are. Second, the black elephant is 20 percent bigger in terms of the numbers of deaths it represents, compared to white homicides....

And lastly a somewhat important fact

The rates of gun-related homicide, suicide and accidental death have decreased by 44 percent, 19 percent and 69 percent respectively since 1993 (for all races and ages).

This tells us, regardless of all the above negative info, it is getting better. But until we focus on the real issues, this problem will never go away. And no, guns are not the issue.




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