Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

Paul was a murderer

page: 6
6
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join

posted on Feb, 18 2013 @ 11:36 PM
link   

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by LazarusTsiyr
 


Maybe Paul was somehow given knowledge, yet used it in the wrong way?


Again, based on what? Pure conjecture and speculation?


For his own benefit and that of Rome's. He was a Roman who persecuted early Christians then took what he learned and turned it around and made it completely different.


There's no evidence for that.

And he was a Jew with dual citizenship. So he wasn't just a Roman. He didn't make it completely different at all. If he had, then he would have been called out on it by the Apostles whom were still alive and the early movement.


His epistles attest to him changing the message, bringing in concepts that Jesus never said while alive.


No, they don't. Anyone who claims that doesn't understand the Scriptures at all or is taking them out of context.




posted on Feb, 18 2013 @ 11:41 PM
link   
reply to post by LazarusTsiyr
 


Sure, it's based on speculation, but the speculation is based on evidence I have collected that points toward my theory. Take a look at this link for a rundown of it. And please at least try to read it before you make your conclusion. Though I have a feeling your conclusion has already been made.
edit on 18-2-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 18 2013 @ 11:45 PM
link   
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


Well no disrespect but just a cursory glance of it illustrates many misunderstandings, especially concerning the Scripture texts, just I had suspected you would.

It's way too late and I just don't have the time to dissect the whole thing. Nothing I say will change your viewpoint on the matter so it's a pointless battle to engage in.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 12:20 AM
link   
reply to post by LazarusTsiyr
 


So you're not going to look at it. I didn't think you would, thanks for proving me right.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 12:28 AM
link   
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 



So why don't you think the "official" story could have done the same thing?! It's the one that makes all the money and hoards it.


Im a little at a loss here. I just agreed with you that there has been a massive effort to subvert the message and identity of Christ over the years, and to change the books of the Bible and you don't like that?

And there was no organized church or religion when the disciples and apostles wrote the books of the NT. That came over a century and a half later when Constantine's 2nd successor Theodocius I made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire. The disciples and early church fathers were trying to keep from being persecuted.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 12:33 AM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


What makes you think they haven't succeeded in subverting the message? Because the bible says so?
That's the subverted message! They started subverting it the moment they nailed him to the cross.

You avoided my other point. Why on a world where we can't get the truth out of our leaders, do you think they would let the ultimate truth spread like the bible has? They wouldn't, unless of course it is central to their plan of subverting Jesus' true message.

edit on 19-2-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 12:38 AM
link   

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


What makes you think they haven't succeeded in subverting the message? Because the bible says so?
That's the subverted message!


They recorded the message, the subversion began in the 2nd century. Irenaeus' "Against Heresies" volumes document quite a bit of the subversion methods.


You avoided my other point. Why on a world where we can't get the truth out of our leaders, do you think they would let the ultimate truth spread like the bible has? They wouldn't, unless of course it is central to their plan of subverting Jesus' true message.



I don't really understand what you're asking in regards to our leadership, many of them are Godless and don't care.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 12:43 AM
link   
Here is a really good video showing the basics of how the NT came to be and also highlights some of the major efforts throughout history to subvert it's message, goes into detail about the Gnostics, and Westcott and Hort:

YouTube.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 12:43 AM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Irenaeus was another part of the subversion tactic that you're blind to. The books that he called heretical were the same ones that were calling Paul and his teachings out as a fraud. One of Paul's successors defending Paul's words? No way!


So the church isn't part of these leaders? Aren't they supposed to be the closest to god? The church is the same organization that promotes your interpretation of Jesus' words and teachings! You adhere to the churches teachings, which means you support the beast.
edit on 19-2-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 12:45 AM
link   
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


Irenaeus was a disciple of Polycarp who in turn was a disciple of the Apostle John.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 12:47 AM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


And John traveled with Paul.
edit on 19-2-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 12:53 AM
link   

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


And John traveled with Paul.


Huh? Barnabas and Luke traveled with Paul.

Or perhaps you're thinking of John Mark? Different John.

edit on 19-2-2013 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 01:02 AM
link   
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


What makes you so sure that Paul or someone else subverted the message ? Paul preached the Gospel of Jesus that does not disagree with what Jesus preached . Paul was dedicated to the spreading of the Gospel , so much that he also was ready to and did die for the Gospel of Christ . He could have bailed out anytime but held the course instead . What ever he was he was Gods outreach to the Gentile and was under Gods guidance .
" Enlightened One " for some one that is supposed to be enlightened , what is it exactly are you enlightened of . How to attack the Christian Faith ? To do that you would have to attack Christianities biggest Apostle . The only Apostle to the Gentile . Isn't that convenient . You haven't attacked Peter who had to be corrected because he tried to mix Judaism with Christianity to avoid conflict with the Jews . By the same judgement that you call Paul a Murder you have convicted yourself a liar . By what new means should we believe a liar . And you have told a lie haven't you ? I believe the Illuminati are also called the Enlightened Ones and their job is to defeat Christianity . Maybe you chose your screen name for some other reason I don't know , but what a coincidence . I do know I chose my screen to reflect my beliefs whether I live up to it or not is another thing . .



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 01:13 AM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


My mistake.


The only people who attest to Polycarp being a disciple of John are Irenaeus, Tertullian, and St. Jerome, all of which were born after John died. Where is the evidence from the time he was supposedly his disciple?

Why didn't he mention John himself in his writing if he was his disciple?



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 01:20 AM
link   
reply to post by SimonPeter
 


Paul was guided by the holy spirit because he said so? What if I said the same thing?
I do believe I am being guided by it, so since you believe I am Satan and since I said that, that means Paul could have been Satan saying it as well. I guess you're just going to have to take my word that I have nothing to do with Satan. Though you'll probably assume I do, which is fine, but it's also disrespectful.

The reason I like to discuss Christianity is because that's what I grew up with. It interests me, the fact that I believe it is a conspiracy makes it that much more fascinating.

Like I said earlier, since the Buddha was called the "enlightened one", that must mean he was part of the Illuminati too, right? That's a ridiculous thing to think.

What makes me think anyone subverted the message? Probably the same reason you think I'm subverting it now. If you think I'm subverting the message now then what makes you think Paul couldn't have done it to begin with?
edit on 19-2-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 02:06 AM
link   

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


My mistake.


The only people who attest to Polycarp being a disciple of John are Irenaeus, Tertullian, and St. Jerome, all of which were born after John died. Where is the evidence from the time he was supposedly his disciple?

Why didn't he mention John himself in his writing if he was his disciple?


Did you watch the video yet?



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 02:29 AM
link   

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
This is going to be a short post, but I think it will get some people thinking.... maybe.

Most Christians claim that Paul couldn't have been a fraud because his words seem inspired by the holy spirit. What most forget though, is that Paul rounded up followers of Jesus and killed them by the hundreds before his conversion and epistles.

Since Paul murdered followers of Jesus, wouldn't it be safe to assume that he would have also found teachings of Jesus among these followers that he killed? If he did, then wouldn't it be safe to assume that he could have plagiarized Jesus' words and called them his own in order to LOOK holy when he really wasn't?

What say you fellow ATS'ers?


No, it's not safe to assume that.

It is true that Saul of Tarsus was a persecutor of Christians, and even condoned their killing. The Bible account relates that he was there standing beside the the first Christian maryter Stephen, while the Pharisees were stoning him to death, and approving of it.

So, what made him different than other persecutors of Christians? It is the fact, that while he was doing wrong, he did it honestly. He was jealous for his God, and he thought what he was doing was right. He did not have evil intentions. He literally thought that what he was doing was righteous. While, it is true, what he did was wrong, Jehovah God and his son Jesus could read his heart condition, and they realized he didn't know any better. That is why Jesus knew that when he appeared to Paul, and revealed the truth to him, Paul would remain zealous for what was right, only now according to accurate knowledge.

There is wrong knowledge, and then correct knowledge, or "accurate knowledge." Most religions on earth today, and all of those of Christendom have certain knowledge, but they do not have "accurate knowledge" of God or his purposes.

That Paul himself later recognized this fact about himself is evident, for example he said:


(1 Timothy 1:13) . . .although formerly I was a blasphemer and a persecutor and an insolent man. Nevertheless, I was shown mercy, because I was ignorant and acted with a lack of faith.

He did not try to hid the fact. In fact he continues this up with:

(1 Timothy 1:15, 16) . . .Faithful and deserving of full acceptance is the saying that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. Of these I am foremost. 16 Nevertheless, the reason why I was shown mercy was that by means of me as the foremost case Christ Jesus might demonstrate all his long-suffering for a sample of those who are going to rest their faith on him for everlasting life.

Did Paul have a change of heart? Of course he did. He continued zealous towards God, but now with accurate knoweldge.

There are many today, too, because of fales religion who are taught wrong things about God. While they are sincere at heart, and even zealous in their beliefs they are wrong. Jehovah God can see their heart condition, we cannot.

On the other hand, their are many clergy of Christendom who have read the Bible, or have have been witnessed to by Jehovah's servants and know the truth, and, like the Pharisees who schemed to put Lazerus back to death after Jesus resurrected him, and denied Jesus' power came from God, even though they knew it did, they deny Jehovah's witnesses and the truth they teach.

The two perhaps both persecutted God's people. But one did it out of ignorance and jealousy for God. The other did it out of wickedness and a bad heart. The latter is much more accountable. In fact those religious leaders that schemed to have Jesus put to death sinned against the holy spirit, the only sin which has no forgiveness. That is a warning to all who knowingly do the same.

But, if you read through Paul's letters it is obvious he was inspired by God. They harmonize with the entire Bible cannon. In fact he draws from previous scriptures tremendously. He quotes over and over and over and over from the Hebrew Scriptures and expounds upon them. Nothing he writes conflicts with any other of the contents in the scriptures. And the fact that Jehovah God has seen fit to preserve his letters in the Bible is a testament to their being inspired by him.


edit on 19-2-2013 by SubAce because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 02:42 AM
link   



And there was no organized church or religion when the disciples and apostles wrote the books of the NT.


For proof that the first century Christians were indeed organized from the very start please read the Bible book of Acts.

Here is a wonderful aid in helping you to understand that book. If you read that book objectively, there is no way you can come to any other conclusion than the fact that Jehovah God has always been organized, and just as he used the organized nation of Israel beforehand, so too the Christian congregation, from its outset was organized:

Bearing Through Witness



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 07:34 AM
link   
reply to post by SubAce
 


Oh wow! I never read Acts before!

Two people can have organizational skills, that's not what's meant by the phrase "organized church".



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 08:52 AM
link   
nothing new!!






top topics



 
6
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join



atslive.com

hi-def

low-def