Paul was a murderer

reply to post by windword


I simply do not see any of the points you are trying to make . I don't see why you as a non believer would have so much interest in Paul . You don't believe Jesus actually was the savior by your own admission . What possible reason would you have to comment on a follower of Jesus who is only parroting the works of Jesus .
Your mission is obvious !

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by windword

 

I simply do not see any of the points you are trying to make .

Then you are blind or just purposely being obtuse!

I don't see why you as a non believer would have so much interest in Paul .

Because Paul's writing are the foundation of the Christian Church, which contradicts Jesus' teachings.

You don't believe Jesus actually was the savior by your own admission . What possible reason would you have to comment on a follower of Jesus who is only parroting the works of Jesus .
Your mission is obvious !

Paul does NOT parrot the teachings of Jesus, he corrupts them!

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

So you think a guy who wasn't born until 130 knew what happened in those days?

As opposed to modernists 2000 years removed????

You're still not addressing how Luke could have finished his gospel by 62 CE when Mark's wasn't finished until around 70 CE. How do you explain that away?

You never read the link did you about the late dating of Mark?

Your nonsense bores me . It appears that no one else but the " enlightened one " is interested in your witch hunt. reply to post by windword

reply to post by SimonPeter


Well, you can really only speak for yourself. But, I have to wonder, if you're so bored with our conversation, why do keep replying, even though your replies are only snarky insults, with nothing of substance to offer?

The sound of silence , means no body is buying it .

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Here is another really scathing review of Paul's hold on his "Christianity.

www.sol.com.au...

Paul taught that the whole function of Jesus centred on his death which released the faithful from the burden of their sins, their misery and the power of Satan. In fact not a single word Paul wrote in the Epistles gives the actual teaching of Jesus, nor does he mention even one of his parables; instead he spreads his own philosophy and his own ideas.

Paul tends to characterise all people as children of anger, ie. as subject to the wrath of God (see Eph. 2,3). All are (without exception) quite lost (eg. Romans 5,18; Cor. 15,18), without hope and without God (Eph. 2,12), for Satan has power over everyone (without exception) (eg. Rom. 3,9; Gal. 3,22; Col 2,14). A sentence of damnation hangs like a sword of Damocles over all people (eg. Rom. 5,16).

Thus Paul as a human teacher made out of the joyous tidings his threatening tidings and implied that only he could show the path to salvation. Of course with such an attitude one can hardly arrive at a natural view of death, for it makes death a solution to sin.

In no other religion do we find such cultivation of the fear of death as in the Pauline Christianity. With Paul Christianity became a religion in which Christians, beset by fears, would bow docilely under the yoke of threats. The religion was already veering away from the concept of the kind and loving, all-forgiving God of Jesus, and reverting to the crudities of the wrathful Old Testament God, as borne out by Paul's words.

So true! Paul completely disregards the life and teachings and substitutes them for his brand spankin new Pagan/Yahweh Death Cult!

Jesus did not supply theories to be ground in the mills of academia, about his path and message -- he just lived his teaching! Paul: fanatic, heretic, egotist, misogynist... gay?*

Paul sure was homophobic, where Jesus never even mentions homosexuality! Paul doesn't marry, and suggests abstinence over marriage, and sees marriage as a "must do" thing if you can't control yourself! He clearly didn't respect women, and certainly was very misogynistic. Maybe he was gay!

After intensive and extensive research, the psychiatrist Wilhelm Lange-Eichbaum was able to recreate a detailed portrait of Paul's character in his well-known work 'Genius, Madness and Fame'. Paul was frail, plain and small, yet at the same time harsh, rejecting, impetuous and passionate. His Zeal in the persecution of Christians was a compensation for his own feelings of inadequacy. The vast attraction of Paulinism is the idea of redemption and release from inner crises. Paul had boundless energy and matching ego. He suffered from severe attacks, which he blamed on demons. The latest sources have shown that there may have been a cause for what he often described as "a thorn in the flesh", his own personal cross. He might have suffered tragically from his own homosexuality. His problem caused him great antipathy towards sexuality altogether, and was decisive in his development of an ascetic doctrine of marriage, which has been of formative influence in the base image of sexuality and of woman that continued to dominate Christian thinking.

What's this? A fragment from the Dead Sea Scrolls that is a document of ex-communication of Paul by the early Christian Church for departing from the Law of Moses! Seems it was delivered by James, the Just, brother of Jesus!

One portion, numbered 40266, is titled by Eisenman and Wise, "The Foundation of Righteousness (The End of the Damascus Document: An excommunication text)." It appears to be the excommunication of Paul from the Christian Community. The document was prepared for a convocation of the followers of Christ at the time of the Pentecost, "to curse those who depart to the right (or to the left) of the Torah," that is, the law of Moses.

The authors of the book believe that "the priest commanding the Many" who delivers this excommunication judgement was James, the apostle often referred to as James the Just, the bishop of Jerusalem and the brother of Jesus.

In twisted logic involving blessing and cursing, Paul defends himself in his letters to the Galatians (3:11-13). Paul argues that he is redeemed in his transgressions against the teachings of Jesus, because Christ himself became cursed by the law . Paul is confusing the law of Moses with the law of the Romans and his own law.

Things that make you go hmmm!

reply to post by windword


Ummm, the dead sea scrolls date to between 3 and 400 BC. Neither Paul nor James was alive when they were hidden in the caves.

Your source is outright lying or ignorant.

reply to post by windword


The above post may be, although there are some close seconds, the most twisted and convoluted nonsence in this thread.

Originally posted by Logarock
reply to post by windword

 

The above post may be, although there are some close seconds, the most twisted and convoluted nonsence in this thread.

I really hope you're not referring to my post:

The texts are of great historical and religious significance and include the earliest known surviving copies of biblical and extra-biblical documents, as well as preserving evidence of great diversity in late Second Temple Judaism. They are written in Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, and Nabataean, mostly on parchment, but with some written on papyrus and bronze. These manuscripts have been dated to various ranges between 408 BCE and 318 CE.

Dead Sea Scrolls - Wiki.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by SimonPeter

 

Is that the best you can come up with? You can't refute the fact that Paul continually contradicts Jesus and has undermined his message.

You are a typical, judgmental, intolerant Christian, and, your type of Christianity has done more to harm the planet and it's population than the Jews or any other religion on Earth!

My experience with Christians, such as yourself, is that they are destructive, seek to punish individuals who don't agree with them, hold grudges and are the furthest thing from the Christian values that Jesus taught, thanks to your mentor, Paul.

You really can't hide you faulty Christian values and your blackened heart behind a veil of piety. Your conventional biases are obvious, and the only thing you have left, to defend your intolerant viewpoint, is name calling and accusations that don't hold water.

I actually feel sorry for you and hope that you, eventually, find what your looking for, perhaps in the next life!

You should really get your facts strait at least somewhat before you set out to school someone like this. So some of us dont buy into your convolution of distortion.....so we are black hearts.

Your biases are certainly obvious. The divisory you seek to show between Jesus and Paul is simply Blend / Puree nonsence, poor handling and has the wiff of hate all over it, devoid of good scholarship. I mean its just very bad. They type that sets out to prove a point rather than whats is really there.

This death cult thing is just pure blind hate pouring out. Maybe you fear that when you die you wont be regurgitated by the god of spiritual Bull-imia but rather swallowed up into final perdition.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


You do realize 318 CE is plenty of room for Paul to be included, right? Paul lived 200 years before that in the first century. I think you're confusing CE for BC, 318 CE is equivalent to 318 AD.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by windword

 

Ummm, the dead sea scrolls date to between 3 and 400 BC. Neither Paul nor James was alive when they were hidden in the caves.

Your source is outright lying or ignorant.

WRONG!

Fragments of eight manuscripts of the Damascus Document were found in Qumran Cave 4 (4Q266-273), with scripts dated paleographically from the first century BCE to the first century CE. In addition small bits of the work survive in a manuscript from Cave 5 (5Q12) and another from Cave 6 (6Q15). The two Geniza manuscripts vary significantly from one another in one column (on which more below) but otherwise there are no major variations among the Qumran and Geniza manuscripts wherever they overlap with one another.
www.st-andrews.ac.uk...

Envisaging a foreign threat the Essenes living on the shores of the Dead Sea hid the jars containing their precious manuscripts in the mountain Caves, located in a valley known as Qumran. In all about 400 manuscripts have been discovered from the caves, surrounding the Dead Sea. The scholars have dated these manuscripts of the Dead Sea Scrolls, ranging from 10 B.C. to 68 A.D.

The Scrolls have proved valuable tools in the reconstruction of history of the advent of early Christianity. It records the power struggle between a righteous, an evil and a liar, the hint of this conflict is to be found in the Book of Acts . From the jars discovered at Qumran (Cave Number 1) scholars have discovered an important commentary on the Book of Habakkuk (‘Habakkuk Pesher’).

The commentary records the defiling of the God’s sanctuary (cf. Acts 21: 28-29), and details of a historical dispute between the leaders of the early Christians (cf. Acts 21:17-26). In addition to the ‘Habakkuk Commentary’ the reference to this individual who was being accused of falsity and preaching his own doctrine is also found in the commentary to the Psalm 37 within the Qumran texts.
www.mostmerciful.com...

There are plenty of commentaries and criticisms of the translations of the "Damascus Document" but the dating is not doesn't seem to be an issue among scholars.

More proof of the later dates of some of the texts found in the caves at Qumran:

II. THE COMMUNITY RULE "The Community Rule" (Serekh Ha Yah9ad) is this work's title for itself in the best-preserved manuscript, 1QS. Early on, scholars also called it the "Manual of Discipline." It appears, at least at first glance - and even at second or third glance - to be a constitution for some sort of dissident Jewish group in the Second Temple period which called itself the " Yah9ad," literally the "together," but here used as a technical term meaning "Community." Frank Moore Cross dated the script of 1QS to c. 100-75 BCE on paleographic grounds. Another manuscript, this one written on papyrus rather than leather, has been dated paleographically to be somewhat older, copied c. 125-100 BCE. The manuscript 1QS is one of the original seven scrolls found in Cave 1.
www.st-andrews.ac.uk...

So the dates of the scrolls are complementary to early Christianity and the debate that ensued between the Essenes and Paul's ministry

reply to post by Logarock


Any religion that places an emphasis on the death of their teacher rather than the actual life example and teaching of that individual, and sees that death is a remedy to error (sin), is a DEATH CULT!

Pauline Christianity is a death cult, in which the mercy of salvation can only be realized after ones death and through the death of another.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Logarock

 

Any religion that places an emphasis on the death of their teacher rather than the actual life example and teaching of that individual, and sees that death is a remedy to error (sin), is a DEATH CULT!

Pauline Christianity is a death cult, in which the mercy of salvation can only be realized after ones death and through the death of another.

Cant even begin to see what you mean by "emphasis on the death of their teacher" as far as Paul goes.

reply to post by Logarock

Logarock

I suspect Windword merely meant the emphasis the 'Pauline' Christian churches have always placed on eating the flesh and drinking the blood of dead armed seditionists who incite rebellion against Rome (like R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean c. Pesach 36 CE) in order to gain 'salvation' - which of course smacks of cannibalism.

Just a thought...

reply to post by Sigismundus


Lol.

The death of Jesus is what he means then? Well its a very important part of the whole thing there. Its not as if someone say like Paul just pumped up the death part for some facination with it. Jesus was the one that began the the bread and wine as blood and flesh.....totally symbol even as he had it. And He was very personal about it.

Originally posted by Sigismundus
reply to post by Logarock

Logarock

I suspect Windword merely meant the emphasis the 'Pauline' Christian churches have always placed on eating the flesh and drinking the blood of dead armed seditionists who incite rebellion against Rome (like R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean c. Pesach 36 CE) in order to gain 'salvation' - which of course smacks of cannibalism.

Just a thought...

LOL, I wasn't even going to get into the cannibalism part of Christianity or the story of "Bloody Mary". I had to do a search on the name R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean c. Pesach 36 CE, and this was at the top of the Google search page. www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Logarock

The "Death Cult" didn't start or end with Jesus. The God of the Old Testament loved death and required animal sacrifice. He required the "sacrifice" of humans under the guise of war, the penalty of breaking his "laws" and for the sin of Adam and Eve.

The Essenes, on the other hand, didn't believe in animal sacrifice, and certainly didn't believe that God required a human blood sacrifice of their "Righteous Teacher." I don't believe that Jesus ever intended his live and death to be memorialized as such.

Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by Sigismundus
reply to post by Logarock

Logarock

I suspect Windword merely meant the emphasis the 'Pauline' Christian churches have always placed on eating the flesh and drinking the blood of dead armed seditionists who incite rebellion against Rome (like R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean c. Pesach 36 CE) in order to gain 'salvation' - which of course smacks of cannibalism.

Just a thought...

LOL, I wasn't even going to get into the cannibalism part of Christianity or the story of "Bloody Mary". I had to do a search on the name R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean c. Pesach 36 CE, and this was at the top of the Google search page. www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Logarock

 

The "Death Cult" didn't start or end with Jesus. The God of the Old Testament loved death and required animal sacrifice. He required the "sacrifice" of humans under the guise of war, the penalty of breaking his "laws" and for the sin of Adam and Eve.

The Essenes, on the other hand, didn't believe in animal sacrifice, and certainly didn't believe that God required a human blood sacrifice of their "Righteous Teacher." I don't believe that Jesus ever intended his live and death to be memorialized as such.

edit on 1-3-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)

If thats what you believe you havent been reading the bible.

reply to post by Logarock

If thats what you believe you havent been reading the bible.

I think that would apply more to you me, as the Old Testament is full of proof of my statement.