Paul was a murderer

reply to post by SimonPeter


I'ts obvious that you are NOT a Mormon.

You must have a case of short term memory loss in your old age, because we've had this conversation before. I'm very close to your age, maybe 2 or 3 years younger than you. My daughter is in her 40's, and is a professor of immunology at a noted university. I'm retired from my (job) career, but still work as own my own design business.

reply to post by windword


I thought we might have . I doubt you will see events of today and the coming years as prophetic manifestations of the bible then .

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Logarock

 

So why did he say man only dies once when he knew it wasn't true? He supposedly raised a guy from the dead! He obviously had to die again at some point right? So how does a man dying twice equal man only dying once.

Round and round we go.

You claim to be all knowing and yet you dont know the reason for this?

Let me ask you a question, There was some things diffrent in the resurection of Christ and all the others in the bible....do you know what those are?

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Logarock

 

To this he said that moses knew him and if they understood moses they would have know him as well and that he came to make good the law....Yahwehs law.

Jesus never said that Moses "knew" him.

"If you believed Moses you would believe Me; for he wrote about me. But if you don’t believe his writings, how will you believe my words?"

This is what Moses wrote:

Deuteronomy 18:19
'I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. 'And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him."

Now everbody in that dialogue understood what points were being made on both sides. They thought Jesus was insane with this as well as making himself equal with Yahweh. When He said before Abraham was I Am.

Jesus NEVER made himself equal to God. He made it very clear that he was sent by "his father, who is our father."

You keep trying to make this tread about Jesus, but it isn't. It's about Paul being an untrustworthy murderer with an agenda to mislead early Christians away from the true teachings of Jesus. And, he has succeeded!

edit on 21-2-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)

You pick what you want to believe from the words of Jesus and yet claim to understand that Paul didnt understand the true teachings of Christ. You are that man.

reply to post by SimonPeter


I actually believe that the prophecies of the Bible are cyclical. Event are predicted in the Bible that already happened and will happen, again and again.

Ecclesiastes 1:9
The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

I also, actually, agree that there is some sort of cabal working to keep the planet in ignorance and slavery. I just don't believe that the documents presented in the "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" documents are valid, and I believe that they are a distraction from the true agenda and TPTB. I think the Catholic Church, among other sects, have distorted the true teachings of Jesus, inserting Paul's lies and heresies among the Gospels, and have actively worked to silence dissent.

I believe that the visions of John, that resulted in the book of Revelation, is also a story of what already happened, is always happening, will be repeated, and is being used as a blue print for those seeking to "shock and awe" the world into complacency and servitude to the almighty corporations.

I believe that we are all spiritual beings having a physical experience, and I believe in reincarnation. I believe in a spiritual hierarchy, and that there is a high plan for our existence and a purpose for our struggles.

I have experienced life changing spiritual contact with what I consider to be "The God." It is my experience that informs me that the god of the Old Testament is not the God that communes with me, heart to heart and soul to soul.

reply to post by Logarock

You pick what you want to believe from the words of Jesus and yet claim to understand that Paul didnt understand the true teachings of Christ. You are that man.

And Paul never once quotes the words or teaching of Jesus, AT ALL, EVER!

I am NOT that man, as I am not a man.

reply to post by Logarock


Woah... when did I ever say I was all-knowing? Come on, stop putting words in my mouth.

I understand what your reason for it was, you say it was done to show the power of god. I realize that, but it still contradicts Paul's words of man dying only once. That's obviously not true for everyone is it?

There are people who die and are brought back to life today, except it's done with medical equipment. What about them? Do the rules not apply to them either?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Okay, I Am. That's a title of mine as well. I AM "insert name here". See how that works?

So if the god that Moses was talking to was named Jesus, why is he called Yahweh? Why does Jesus never call himself Yahweh or even mention his name?

edit on 21-2-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

Jesus said He came in His Father's Name.

Yahshua (Jesus) is a "consecrated Name", meaning His Name carries His father's Name.

Yahshua means "YHVH saves".

Originally posted by Witness123

Originally posted by hadriana
I think Paul is a jerk. I'm not a Christian though so I don't guess my opinion matters, but PAUL is a real big reason why. Love Jesus, all his words, actions....

But then you get to Paul and I'm like...kak..imposter.

Paul has little or nothing to do with getting saved. Christians make it out that he is the greatest apostle when he is not. In the judgment, you will be graded based off what you knew but didn't do though you knew to do it. If you think that Jesus reportedly faithfully on who He was, then that is something you will have to decide on. I'm a Christian and I find faults with Paul as well, it doesn't mean I should give up my faith. I still have to do what I know is right.

You "find faults" with what Paul wrote? Perhaps you are a greater authority on Christianity than Peter? That's monumental arrogance.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Peter and Paul did NOT agree and were at odds on many issues, according to religious Christian scholars.

www.aomin.org...

www.tektonics.org...

While I don't agree with this preacher's dogma, he illustrates the difference between the gospel of Paul and Peter, according to his interpretations.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
This is going to be a short post, but I think it will get some people thinking.... maybe.

Most Christians claim that Paul couldn't have been a fraud because his words seem inspired by the holy spirit. What most forget though, is that Paul rounded up followers of Jesus and killed them by the hundreds before his conversion and epistles.

Since Paul murdered followers of Jesus, wouldn't it be safe to assume that he would have also found teachings of Jesus among these followers that he killed? If he did, then wouldn't it be safe to assume that he could have plagiarized Jesus' words and called them his own in order to LOOK holy when he really wasn't?

What say you fellow ATS'ers?

The whole bible is a fairytale, albeit an extremely elaborate one. If this Paul did exist, then his words inspired witch-hunts and caused many innocent women to have been burned alive. On the basis of Paul's words, Christians had the female astronomer and philosopher Hypatia skinned alive with oyster eggshells, mutilated, then dragged through the streets of Alexandria in about 480 AD.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


It more closely means "God saves" or "He saves" rather than "YHWH saves". There were lots of people back then with the name Jesus, were they sent by god too? Did they die (but not really) to save the world from sin as well?

Jesus' Father was not Yahweh, the two are nothing alike whatsoever. If Jesus is Yahweh, then we have the most bi-polar god I've ever seen. One minute he's ordering soldiers to kill women and children, the next he's telling the world that killing is wrong and that we should all love each other.

Maybe he forgot to take his prozac back in the BC's?

reply to post by mclinking


But it's a fairy tale based on a true story. Whether Jesus existed or not is not for me to decide, but I choose to believe he did exist. I think it may be a possibility that Jesus was only a placeholder name for the movement itself, they only lumped all the teachings under one name then created a story around their persecution of them. Though I think that is unlikely, I do believe it may be a possibility.

Jesus
“Do not judge others, and you will not be judged. For you will be treated as you treat others. The standard you use in judging is the standard by which you will be judged. “And why worry about a speck in your friend’s eye when you have a log in your own? (Matthew 7:1-3 NLT)

Paul
You may think you can condemn such people, but you are just as bad, and you have no excuse! When you say they are wicked and should be punished, you are condemning yourself, for you who judge others do these very same things. (Romans 2:1 NLT)

Would you say Paul supports Jesus position on judging others here?

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Logarock

 

You pick what you want to believe from the words of Jesus and yet claim to understand that Paul didnt understand the true teachings of Christ. You are that man.

And Paul never once quotes the words or teaching of Jesus, AT ALL, EVER!

I am NOT that man, as I am not a man.

edit on 22-2-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)

Yes he did and no I am not looking it up for you.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

It more closely means "God saves" or "He saves" than "YHWH saves". There were lots of people back then with the name Jesus, were they sent by god too? Did they die (but not really) to save the world from sin as well?

What do you think the "Yah" in Yahshua is short for? Lol

reply to post by Logarock


Are you talking about this:

1 Corinthians 11
23 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

That's the only instance that I could dig up, so I assume this is the ONLY time Paul quoted Jesus directly. Out of his 13 LOOOONG epistles, he mentions Jesus' words ONE TIME?

You'd think someone who was trying to spread Jesus' message would have used his words a bit more than once don't you think? And before you go saying that's what the gospels are for, Paul wrote to these Roman officials before the gospels were ever published, so how could Paul have convinced them that Jesus was the real deal when he never quotes Jesus except for that one time?

I would think that if you're trying to prove someone right, you'd use more than one thing that they said.

reply to post by windword

Peter and Paul did NOT agree and were at odds on many issues, according to religious Christian scholars.

I really can't call them a "scholar " if they never read 2 Peter 3:15-16.



15 And count l the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as m our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you n according to the wisdom given him, 16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Okay, you got me. I can admit that I am wrong, but can you do the same? You haven't so far.

Do you agree that Paul lied when he said man only dies once? He raised a man from the dead who had to die a second time at some point. Either he was lying about man dying once, or he was lying about raising the guy from the dead. Which is it?

ETA: Now that I've looked into it a bit more, the name "Yahshua" is never mentioned, only "Yeshua".

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by mclinking

 

But it's a fairy tale based on a true story. Whether Jesus existed or not is not for me to decide, but I choose to believe he did exist. I think it may be a possibility that Jesus was only a placeholder name for the movement itself, they only lumped all the teachings under one name then created a story around their persecution of them. Though I think that is unlikely, I do believe it may be a possibility.

Sure, the fairytale may be based on fact. But we're talking here about Paul or whoever he was being a murderer. Christians, throughout history, have chosen how to interpret Paul's words, especially his remarks concerning women and their place in society. Personally, I hate religion, all religions, simply because they are all open to the interpretations of fallible men. The hate that existed in ancient Egypt in Alexandria in 480 AD is still there today in modern Egypt, in Cairo, in societies divided by religious squabbles, rifts. Even today, we have the horrible phenomenon of the 'witch children' of Nigeria, Christian crackpots hunting down and hacking small children to pieces.
As far as I'm concerned, God is conspicuous by his continual absence.