Meteors were apart of the asteriod.....

Totally different trajectories. Cosmic coincidence, yes! Anything that can happen will happen in the universe. At the very same moment trillions of miles away. A meteorite touched down on a planet baked a cake, tapped danced, and then flew off into the cosmic nether............

reply to post by Phage


No lol, im not ready for that yet thats to easy and obvious....

Im thinking more conspiratorial here.

Like Isreal was sending a message to Russia or something along those lines...

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Qumulys

 

So, perhaps something along these lines? (Very simplified, might have had a few complete loops around earth first?).

The meteor hit Russia about 16 hours before the closest approach of DA14. At that time DA14 was about 380,000 km from Earth (the distance of the Moon). Any ideas on how a piece of the asteroid would get that far ahead of it, or why it would obtain such a different orbit?

edit on 2/16/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)

I'm thinking something like this. (Dont take this personal, I like you)
I throw a rock at your face.
I bent down, grabbed a hand sized rock and set it in motion. Now, maybe it's a bit muddy, so there is also some little bits of gravel stuck on it, they get broken/loose from the throw. So do itty bitty bits of dirt too. So, 1 rock but there may be quite a large shotgun effect of tiny crud coming at your face. Now, if we could watch it side on with a high-speed camera, is it not plausible that this might occur.
1. We see the initial throw
2. The large rock is tumbling
3. The rotating rock manages to re-hit one of the smaller bits of grit giving it a little extra push.
4. Rock hits your face
5. I run away like a little girl

reply to post by Qumulys

I'm thinking something like this. (Dont take this personal, I like you)
I throw a rock at your face.
I bent down, grabbed a hand sized rock and set it in motion. Now, maybe it's a bit muddy, so there is also some little bits of gravel stuck on it, they get broken/loose from the throw. So do itty bitty bits of dirt too. So, 1 rock but there may be quite a large shotgun effect of tiny crud coming at your face. Now, if we could watch it side on with a high-speed camera, is it not plausible that this might occur.
1. We see the initial throw
2. The large rock is tumbling
3. The rotating rock manages to re-hit one of the smaller bits of grit giving it a little extra push.
4. Rock hits your face
5. I run away like a little girl

So we'll pretend that you are standing directly across from Phage, the rock you threw was the Russian meteor being as it hit Phage's face (the atmosphere).

Now pretend I was standing at your 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock (whichever) and 16 hours later threw a slightly bigger rock at Phage but mine flew close by but didn't hit him and kept on going.

How would my rock or yours for that matter have come from the same rock if their trajectories were independent of one another and they were so far a part?

I know this was a reply to Phage, but I wanted to play the rock throwing game too.

reply to post by Qumulys

You have the sequence wrong.
5) Phage gracefully and swiftly bends to the side, allowing the rock and mud to pass.
5) Phage takes chase.

The answer was given above, all the energy is already in the system. There is nothing to accelerate anything out of the system even if there were one (a system).

But another thing, you imagine the precursor to enter a partial orbit and be pulled to the Earth's surface by gravity half way around the planet. DA12 was moving far too fast to do so. The precursor, even faster, would not do so either. Both had greater than escape velocity.

reply to post by Phage


Ok, just got off the crapper. I do my best thinking there.

I like your thinking Phage, but planets must twirl, not step aside

Can the rock not impart some of its rotational energy into a smaller chunk given they both are travelling with an equal initial vector?

Anyhoo, my next though on the loo was let think years... millions of years... If you have 1 large chunk and a smaller chunk that's say 1% of the size. Over millllllllions perhaps billions of years, would there not be an effect albeit incredibly tiny, of photons of light "impacting" and therefore altering the system? Over time, it's not inconceivable for there to be a difference?

Think of Shoemaker Levy 9, those impacts took place over quite a duration, all of which were part of the same 'system' as it were?

Over the next 6 days, 21 distinct impacts were observed, with the largest coming on July 18 at 07:33 UTC when fragment G struck Jupiter. This impact created a giant dark spot over 12,000 km across, and was estimated to have released an energy equivalent to 6,000,000 megatons of TNT (600 times the world's nuclear arsenal).[17] Two impacts 12 hours apart on July 19 created impact marks of similar size to that caused by fragment G, and impacts continued until July 22, when fragment W struck the planet.[18]

(I know it was a comet and more easily broken into pieces, but the idea is there)

reply to post by UberL33t


It's just a rough guide here mind you, but something like this?


Either way, this is fun throwing rocks at Phage

And like I mentioned above, SL9 was once a whole comet, broken into bits by a previous close flyby of Jupiter, They became separated and the impacts (21, not 9) took 6 days to complete. I'm just thinking it's not impossible that a smaller bit might have somehow over incredible distances/time got a few days ahead, perhaps caught in Earths gravity, flung around, boom? Also, in the pic the earth is also moving upwardly. I know the chances are tiny, I'm just thinking it might just be possible... ?

reply to post by Qumulys

Can the rock not impart some of its rotational energy into a smaller chunk given they both are travelling with an equal initial vector?

Yes. There could be a change in velocity. In speed and/or direction. In order for the fragment to be at the distance it was from the asteroid, there would have to be a significant transfer of energy.

Over millllllllions perhaps billions of years, would there not be an effect albeit incredibly tiny, of photons of light "impacting" and therefore altering the system?

Not really relevant. If the fragment broke off millions of years ago and was on such a different orbit, it's effectively not related. But with an orbit between Earth and Venus, the gravitational perturbations of both with have a much greater effect than light pressure.

It's just a rough guide here mind you, but something like this?

As pointed out the the asteroid had greater than escape velocity. If the meteor were associated with it, it would not have spiralled into Earth, it would have continued on (or hit the facing side of Earth).

reply to post by Phage


(Sorry, I made an edit to my post)

Your thoughts on SL9? I'm thinking a 16 hour delay is not inconceivable... We're not some fragments of SL9 caught in temporary orbit?

SL9 is not unique in having orbited Jupiter for a time; five comets, (including 82P/Gehrels, 147P/Kushida–Muramatsu, and 111P/Helin–Roman–Crockett) are known to have been temporarily captured by the planet

Sorry, wiki source...

Mind you, this is purely because I don't like coincidences!

reply to post by Qumulys

SL9 was a comet, not an asteroid.

SL9 was captured by Jupiter, it entered orbit around it. The escape velocity of Jupiter is very high compared to Earth.

SL9 fragmented because of the extreme gravity gradient (call it tidal force) of Jupiter. Those fragments remained in orbit and spiraled into Jupiter one by one.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Qumulys

 

SL9 was a comet, not an asteroid.

SL9 was captured by Jupiter, it entered orbit around it. The escape velocity of Jupiter is very high compared to Earth.

SL9 fragmented because of the extreme gravity gradient (call it tidal force) of Jupiter. Those fragments remained in orbit and spiraled into Jupiter one by one.

Runs away faster.


(yeah, I know it was a comet, just talking in celestial mechanic type terms. The bit that hit Russia compared to Earth is naught but a tiny spec of dust on a bowling ball, given it's far lower mass than the asteroid would it not be plausible to be bent closer? Also, is the Earth not travelling in roughly the same direction the asteroid in the above graphic? So, the smaller bit might have been a week ahead, pulled closer, reached an apex in front of the earths direction of travel (highest point where I drew the arc in green) and then began a plummet back towards the Earth, for a time actually travelling almost back towards it's bigger asteroid brother!)) ?

reply to post by Qumulys

The bit that hit Russia compared to Earth is naught but a tiny spec dust on a bowling ball, given it's far lower mass than the asteroid would it not be plausible to be bend closer?

Ask Galileo. Oh wait, you can't. Here, watch this:

reply to post by Phage


Oh yeah... 9.8... for all mass.. BUT, the vector of the smaller bit may be slightly askew to the main asteroid. Perhaps it was not tumbling too much (asteroid), front might be quite hot, back freezing cold. A stress fracture from heat difference shoots a bit off on a slightly differing course?



edit

like this.. tension, release. Some components of the glass are on wildly different vectors. (i know this is waves as opposed to a heat differential)

Originally posted by Qumulys
reply to post by Phage

 

Oh yeah... 9.8... for all mass.. BUT, the vector of the smaller bit may be slightly askew to the main asteroid. Perhaps it was not tumbling too much (asteroid), front might be quite hot, back freezing cold. A stress fracture from heat difference shoots a bit off on a slightly differing course?

Captured by unicorns maybe?

Nah, same problem, just going way too fast. It's either going to slam into the atmosphere or miss, it won't spiral in.It won't go around the corner and hit.

reply to post by Phage


Ok, (added a video above... cmon, at least give be .01% plausible, besides, I need lunch)

reply to post by Qumulys


Just go eat. I'm going to bang on some drums...badly.

Originally posted by beezzer
What if there are alien mother ships around the asteroid belt just getting ready to nail us?

Planetary doom!

Greetings:

Silly Rabbit



Everyone knows that the fleet is hidden by the only 'heavenly body' thus far discovered that does not rotate.

At least, that's where John Lear implied it was.

[color=magenta]Peace Love Light
tfw [color=magenta]Liberty & Equality or Revolution

While, yes, most signs point to a coincidence between the meteor and the asteriod, and I'm not doubting the coincidental nature... I was wondering if anyone familiar with the electric universe theory had anything to contribute? (unless I missed a previous comment, in which case... sorry) I was just thinking there was a possibility that the asteroid acted upon the meteor in some way, maybe just pulling it into orbit, leading to it's atmospheric entry... just a thought.