NEWS: Bush Pushes Wrong Flu Vaccine to American People, page 2
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reply posted on 3-11-2004 @ 12:27 AM by keholmes
soficrow

here is a another ‘preventable’ disease ….not a hope, the prevention is simply training…..not hope that something is found.....little background

Pulmonary embolism (PE) is an extremely common and highly lethal condition that is a leading cause of death in all age groups. A good clinician actively seeks the diagnosis as soon as any suspicion of PE whatsoever is warranted, because prompt diagnosis and treatment can dramatically reduce the mortality rate and morbidity of the disease. Unfortunately, the diagnosis is missed far more often than it is made, because PE often causes only vague and nonspecific symptoms. I also read somewhere that once having been diagnosed the likelihood for a repeat is double…..and that 60% of all diagnosed are fatal….and many deaths attributed to other things upon autopsy are re-attributed to PE. do the numbers and it’s not very good.

If doctors were better educated more people would probably be saved than if the condition you state is even cured, if a cure is even possible....so if they should focus anywhere first it would be to preventable conditions that are far up the chain. as for pandemic no president has pursued it like you would like.....so why is it shrubs fault.....simple question, simple answer: it's not....policies do not make diseases mutate…radically or otherwise, to say they do is a lie…there are a multitude of ‘preventable’ diseases that do not get the federal funding that you or others desire….and as an aside if it is a medicinal cure that you are looking for then Kerry’s plan to socialize medicine will not help you, it will hurt you. Stop looking to the government for your solution they don’t find cures, private companies do. Government cash doesn’t find cures, it finds expensive hammers. so your argument that the government just throw money at it won’t necessarily find a cure……so to smear, lie, and distort will only obfuscate the real picture, detracting from peoples overall knowledge, not enhance. There used to be over 7 companies that made the vaccines….guys like Edwards have made sure that we now look overseas for most. Getting rid of folks like Edwards would do more for what you desire than any amount of money the government could spend, even private industry couldn’t match getting rid of his kind.


reply posted on 4-11-2004 @ 08:03 AM by soficrow
Originally posted by Muaddib


Soficrow, you are stating "your opinion" as to who is at fault of something noone in the world can control.

.



Muadib - Here are the facts - not "opinion."

1. H5N1 bird flu first appeared in Hong Kong in 1997 after its evolution had been tracked and predicted for decades.

2. The World Health Organization issued its first alert for H5N1 bird fllu in early 2003.

3. A vaccine for H5N1 bird flu was developed by April 2003 at St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital in the USA.

4. The CDC has routinely issued warnings since that time about the looming pandemic, as have several other respected agencies.

5. Bush gave the contract for producing ALL of America's vaccine supply to one company, Chiron.

6. Chiron had production problems that were identified early, and Britain warned Bush that they were not being resolved.

7. When Britain warned Bush again in mid-September that Chiron's production problems had not been fixed and would not be, Bush did not deal with the problem. Instead, he ordered only 2 million doses from Aventis-Pasteur without attempting to ensure a supply for the whole nation.

8. Britain was forced to deal with Chiron's production problems legally, and shut down the plant in October.

9. The USA was left without a national vaccine supply.

10. The World Health Organization called a November 11 emergency summit to deal with the looming H5N1 bird flu pandmic - something entirely unprecedented that has never been done before.

11. In late October AFTER the contamination debacle, Bush gave a new contract to Chiron to produce a supply of H9 flu vaccines - when the looming pandemic is the H5N1 bird flu strain.


Based on these facts, I say Bush dropped the ball.


.....Not sure I know exactly what it is you are having such trouble understanding....




.

[edit on 4-11-2004 by soficrow]


reply posted on 6-11-2004 @ 01:22 PM by keholmes
Originally posted by Natas313
Never did I imply Bush owned a vaccine company in my post did I? A simple question as to why they havent came up with an all around Multi-strain flu vaccine was the point. Then there wouldn't be the need for the over-hyping of a common disease made out to be the next thing to kill off the human population.
Typical of a bush rider.........
Why even reply when you selectively read a previous reply?
You need a shot

Although specifically replying to you previous post...I was addressing the thread as a whole. Sorry but why do you post when you have selectively read the thread. But, as you must identify yourself as a lefty then I understand your not reading the whole thread putting 5 seconds of thought into your post misunderstanding and then name-calling, typical…..see I can make a very stupid observation just like you. And it contributes about as much as your lame a&& post.

The simple answer was given. As for over-hyping the common disease; just in the last 1 hundred years there have been 3 pandemics....the pandemic in 1918 killed 20~40 million people and made the bubonic plague look like a cold. 1/5 of the world population was infected with a very large percentage succumbing. 28% of the American population was infected. 1/2 of all troops America lost in WW1 were to the flu. So effectively the flu was more deadly than trench warfare. Over-hype....it has been calculated for a while that a pandemic is overdue....not over-hyped. However my problem with sofic posting was that is the kind of hysterical nut-job posting that allows folks like you to not focus on the facts and instead focus on some stupid little political point.


reply posted on 6-11-2004 @ 01:33 PM by keholmes
soficrow

And you need to fact check you whole argument, instead of issuing a public warning why didn’t they just work on it.


The process of choosing the influenza A and B strains that will form the vaccine starts with surveillance. Global surveillance of emerging flu strains is coordinated by the WHO Global Influenza Surveillance Network, which consists of 112 national influenza centers in 83 countries. ……………………………health officials from the WHO collaborating centers, including the CDC and FDA, review the results of laboratory and clinical studies and make recommendations about the composition of the flu vaccine for the northern hemisphere. In March, the VRBPAC meets again to finalize the recommendations for the U.S. influenza vaccine. The FDA gives these seed strains to vaccine manufacturers to start vaccine production.
www.upmc-biosecurity.org...


please explain to me how if WHO chooses what strains are in the shot how it is shrubs fault what strains are chosen....and how shrub is ignoring the WHO if they are the ones that have not made the shot what it is.....I know it doesn't fit your agenda but it's not unique (especially recently) for international organizations to fubar something and then turn around and blame the US prez......the sad part is that "educated" people such as yourself help them deflect the criticism.

And FYI vaccines do not have to be specific they have to be close enough to effect. As for you basic science…it is a basic misunderstanding. If the virus is similar enough it will help protect.

And also FYI according to some people we DO need to wear aluminum foil hats to protect us from the rays…..does that make it so? bring some proof other than the finger pointing of organizations that put is in the quandry in the first place


[edit on 6-11-2004 by keholmes]


reply posted on 6-11-2004 @ 03:54 PM by soficrow
Originally posted by keholmes
soficrow

And you need to fact check you whole argument, instead of issuing a public warning why didn’t they just work on it.



please explain to me how if WHO chooses what strains are in the shot how it is shrubs fault what strains are chosen....

And FYI vaccines do not have to be specific they have to be close enough to effect. As for you basic science…it is a basic misunderstanding. If the virus is similar enough it will help protect.

[edit on 6-11-2004 by keholmes]



Keholmes - the original post specifies that warnings were issued by the WHO, CDC and other agencies regarding H5N1 bird flu - and provides links that substantiate the reporting. Point being, H5N1 has been long identified as the looming problem.

...part of the process of choosing vaccines is indeed political. As we all know, Bush gave Chiron the whole order for the entire USA - then, when Chiron screwed up the order, Bush purchased 2 million doses from Aventis-Pasteur (and gave Chiron's Italian plant a brand new contract for an H9 vaccine).

FYI - An H3 flu vaccine works on H3 flus; an H9 vaccine works on H9 flus. However, the vaccines are specific to the numbers - an H3 vaccine will NOT work on an H5, H9 or H7 for example. By your terms, they are not similar enough.

The flu that is about to go epidemic is an H5 bird flu (H5N1 to be exact), and an H7 strain is waiting in the wings. NONE of the vaccines available to ordinary Americans have H5 antibodies. That's the truth - without any mumbo jumbo, BS or doublespeak damage control.

...I am somebody who tripped over this information while researching another epidemic disease that I have. ...who are you, what is your interest - and why do you find it necessary to suppress the truth and try to manipulate the science?

...also, and again as someone diagnosed with an epidemic incurable disease, I am totally fed up with bs efforts to "prevent panic" through public denial.

These suppression policies simply prevent people from making informed decisions. Your 'damage control' prevents people from controlling their own lives, financially and otherwise.

Shame on you.


reply posted on 16-11-2004 @ 11:09 AM by MrOtis
Soficrow,

I understand (as best I can) your anger and frustration. But if you go back and re-read the references in my post, you'll see that the H5N1 vaccine developed last year by the St. Jude Childrens Research Center in Memphis is getting to market as quickly as is possible with current production methods.

Back in the spring, when the decision on which strains of virus to be included in this year's vaccines had to be made (because of the time it takes to produce the vaccine), the vaccine for H5N1 was not yet ready for release to the general public. See the March press release from the WHO, which put a 6-month time frame on it, which jives with September's order for the vaccine from HHS.

Implying that the Bush administration sat on a vaccine for H5N1 that was ready to go last spring is dishonest. There had been no testing of the vaccine in humans as of last April:

Webster's laboratory has sent the seed H5N1 vaccine to the Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta and the World Influenza Center in London for further testing, in preparation for initial Phase I and Phase II trials in humans.


Yes, H5N1 has the potential to be the next Spanish Flu, there is no question. In fact, my wife's latest novel deals precisely with a NWO plot to "cull the herd" with just such a virus.

But blaming it on Bush without something substantial to back it up only dents your credibility. You have yet to show where George W. Bush has any say-so whatsoever in choosing which strains of virus are developed or made available as vaccines.

(Hey--if H5N1 was first identified as a potential hazard in '97, why isn't it Clinton's fault?)

[edit on 11/16/2004 by MrOtis]


reply posted on 16-11-2004 @ 09:56 PM by soficrow
Originally posted by MrOtis
Soficrow,

I understand (as best I can) your anger and frustration.

But blaming it on Bush without something substantial to back it up only dents your credibility.



MrOtis - Thank you for your concerns about my credibility.

My point is that Bush represents multinational corporations, not ordinary Americans.

Bird flu escalated to crisis proportions on Bush's watch, like several other "domestic problems" did. Instead of dealing with the real and present dangers, Bush put America into debt for trillions of dollars chasing shadows. Instead of investing in bird flu vaccines for Americans - he gave his corporate buddies $5.6 billion to research vaccines for non-existent bio-weapons, under his Bio Shield "bio-security" program.

The Bush administration promised $5.6 billion to develop vaccines for non-existent biological weapons, according to William Schaffner, chairman of the preventive medicine department at Vanderbilt Medical School in Nashville. “They're creating a very expensive program against diseases that don't exist anywhere in the world,” Dr. Schaffner said. ...It’s hard to see who that $5.6 billion infusion will benefit aside from the contractors.

It's a question of priorities, and loyalties.



1. H5N1 bird flu first appeared in Hong Kong in 1997 after its evolution had been tracked and predicted for decades.

2. The World Health Organization issued its first pandemic alert for H5N1 bird flu in early 2003 - the alert was supported by the CDC, Mayo Clinic and virtually every virologist in the world.

3. A vaccine for H5N1 bird flu was developed by April 2003 at St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital in the USA.

4. The CDC has routinely issued warnings since that time about the looming pandemic, as have several other respected agencies.

5. Bush gave the contract for producing ALL of America's vaccine supply to one company, Chiron.

6. Chiron had production problems that were identified early, and Britain warned Bush that they were not being resolved.

7. When Britain warned Bush again in mid-September that Chiron's production problems had not been fixed and would not be, Bush did not deal with the problem. Instead, he ordered only 2 million doses (of H5N1 bird flu vaccine) from Aventis-Pasteur without attempting to ensure a supply for the whole nation.

8. Britain was forced to deal with Chiron's production problems legally, and shut down the plant in October.

9. The USA was left without a national vaccine supply.

10. The World Health Organization called a November 11 emergency summit to deal with the looming H5N1 bird flu pandemic - something that has never been done before.

11. In late October AFTER the contamination debacle, Bush gave a new contract to Chiron to produce a supply of H9 flu vaccines - when the looming pandemic is the H5N1 bird flu strain, and the other real danger is an H7 strain. But H9 is cheap and simple to manufacture, and highly profitable.




Based on these facts, I say Bush dropped the ball.

Well actually, I think it's pretty clear we're looking at an agenda in action. The country is facing vaccine shortages, joblessness, fresh water shortages, rampant debilitating disease, no health insurance, and looming food shortages. The economy is a mess and half the population is redundant. Apparently, Bush has determined that the best solution is to let them die, and start over with fresh stock.

Here are a few highlights from my own research files. Besides a history of H5N1 bird flu's spread and evolution, and the early warnings, the coverage highlights the spin, 'damage control' and the economics of the politics.

"H5N1 has laid waste to poultry stocks across wide swathes of Asia but it doesn't restrict itself to chickens. People, pigs, dogs, domestic cats, tigers and leopards -- the virus has surprised experts by showing it can infect far afield without acquiring the non-avian genetic material once thought to be necessary for it to jump species."
www.canada.com...

"WHO refutes claims that bird flu virus originated from China"
www.chinaview.cn 2004-01-31 13:24:00

Suspected person-to-person spread was first reported in January of 2004.
www.nytimes.com...

"Playing chicken with public health"
www.bangkokpost.com...

January 30, 2004
"scientists report that their findings support the idea that the SARS virus made the jump from animals to humans, probably multiple times."
www.sciam.com...
“Chinese scientists have found more evidence the SARS virus jumps from animals to humans, possibly frequently.”
www.cbc.ca...

“AFTER killing millions of chickens and ducks across Asia, bird flu is feared to have jumped to some exotic species, killing a heron in Cambodia and possibly a leopard in Thailand.”
scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com...

April, 2004.
"The EPA modelers say science is being altered to suit objectives."
http//www.latimes.com/news/science/environment/la-na-science29apr29,1,723517.story
www.911ea.org...

July, 2004.
"US scientists need better ways to fight the influence of industry and politics on scientific inquiry,... Whether they are studying global warming, environmental toxins, or workplace safety, scientists who find their research unjustifiably shunned or suppressed face similar challenges from corporate and special interests...
...Baird also took the scientific community to task for failing to respond to the suppression of science (and contended that) scientists ... must "stand up for the democratic process itself."
...An April 2004 General Accounting Office report ...said some departments have appointed members of industry and stakeholder groups, persons who are exempt from conflict-of-interest rules. Industry leaders may therefore theoretically be profiting from their own advice."
Fighting for integrity. Delegates at a CSPI meeting dismayed at corporate influence, politicization of science.
www.biomedcentral.com...

September 30, 2004.
"...our world is imperiled by a terrifying monster. Scientists try to sound the alarm, but politicians ignore the threat until its too late. Indifference ultimately turns into panic."
www.commondreams.org...

Fri 1 October, 2004 10:52
"GENEVA (Reuters) - The top World Health Organization (WHO) influenza expert said on Friday drug companies and governments had to speed up production of bird flu vaccines or risk a pandemic which could kill thousands (ed. very obvious spin) of people.
...Only Aventis Pasteur Inc and Chiron Corp -- with contracts from the U.S. National Institutes of Health (NIH) -- are currently developing a human bird flu vaccine.
...Under the two deals, under which 2.4 million doses will be produced, NIH is paying for costly clinical trials. The WHO provided the prototype strain used to develop the vaccines.
...In the event of a pandemic, Europe which is home to 70 to 75 percent of the global drug manufacturing capacity would be key to producing sufficient quantities. "But the reality is none of their companies is investing in developing a pandemic vaccine."
..."Some companies say they don't see the market and why invest money. Others say intellectual property rights would be impinged on,"
...Four groups -- a U.S. company and three U.S.-based research institutes -- claim the patent covering reverse genetics, a complex technology used to remove avian pathogenicity from the virus in WHO's prototype vaccine"
Cached at:
www.tilrc.org...

October 20, 2004
"With polls showing that Florida is once again too close to call, President Bush on Tuesday assured the state's flu-wary retirees that "we have millions of vaccines doses on hand for the most vulnerable Americans" as his administration said that 2.6 million more doses would be available by January. ...Tommy G. Thompson, said ...the total would be about 58 million doses in all." (But didn't mention that 55.2 million of those doses were the wrong vaccine.)
www.nytimes.com...


reply posted on 17-11-2004 @ 02:10 PM by soficrow
Originally posted by Saerlaith

I guess a mass die off from a pandemic is one way to clean up.




Have you come across anything about the "vaccinations" military personnel are given?


Yes - but my research was more focused on molecular biology and genetics and fibromuscular dysplasia, so I didn't pursue the other vaccine angles. ...I don't have any documents or references that aren't fairly common knowledge.

I do know that the real problem is NOT specific engineered bugs that cause particular diseases, but about the diseases that evolve when 2 or more pathogens meet inside the body and cross-breed or mutate to create a new disease. .....So any focus on finding an 'engineered virus' is looking in the wrong direction. The real action happens inside our cells, or in our contaminated/polluted water...

...which makes it real easy for the bad guys to mess around without fearing liability. They can honestly say, "I didn't create that monster." ....The point is though, they created the conditions that made the monster evolve, and tinkered with the recipe.


So do I have this right? The bottom line is that there is a serious shortage of vaccine for H5 & H7 flus, which are the ones poised to go pandemic? And that the american public is not being warned or given information on dealing with the potential crisis?


Yep - H5N1 is the scary one about to hit the airways; H7 looks like it's the one waiting in the wings. We don't have any vaccines - and none have been ordered for the nation.

Bush ordered 2 million doses of H5N1 from Aventis-Pasteur, and some H9 (?!?) from Chiron.

...the real problem with H5 and H7 flu strains is that they are VERY tricky to manufacture - and it takes a long time.

...4 US companies hold the patents and intellectual property rights on the H5N1 vaccine, and it looks like they made it too expensive for other companies to manufacture the vaccine.

...It's looks like your basic squeeze play - the manufacturers can say it's too expensive to make what with patent fees and all, but seems like there's no real commitment here. ...Just a another convenient opportunity to "cull the human herd."

I hear Canada is working on a different vaccine formulation that won't infringe on US patents.

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.



.

[edit on 17-11-2004 by soficrow]
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