Berlusconi: "Bribes Are Necessary - They Are Not Crimes"

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With a week to go until the Italian elections, things are getting a little odd to say the least. The somewhat scandal prone Berlusconi, who self-declared himself leading in the polls just recently, has come out swinging in defense of his fellow business leaders' ethical egressions. The Bunga party banner-man defends bribery, "These are not crimes," he notes, as The FT reports, "bribes are a phenomenon that exists and it’s useless to deny the existence of these necessary situations..."

"Bribes are a phenomenon that exists and it’s useless to deny the existence of these necessary situations"

“These are not crimes,” said Mr Berlusconi, describing payments as “commissions

Here you go folks. Proof that people in positions of high power are disconnected from reality. They don't even understand the meaning of corruption anymore.

They simply do as they please and when push comes to shove, openly tell you about their indiscretions.

They no longer fear the people. This is a problem. I don't mean fear them in the physical sense, but in the political sense. It's about high time that voters of every nation start to oust those in current positions and demand sound and fair officials.

The tide is turning.

~Tenth

Actually... it is a crime... but it seems only if you aren't someone special/rich/famous/politician they are the only ones who don't get in trouble for it.. For everyone else, yes its illegal..

And the fact that it happens and people know it happens doesn't make it right or legal and rather then condone it maybe we should be punishing people for it...

It's not that they don't understand corruption, they just want us to believe it's them who defines the parameters for what corruption IS, and who it is that it applies to.

I truly think this is a justification for the existence of Godly law. Though I wont start a religious debate. Men are simply incapable of leasing power once it's given them. They simply create new and whacky ways to hold onto it!

reply to post by dc4lifeskater


Yeah, that's the privilege I was talking about.

We really need to re-work our system to hold them to HIGHER standards than we hold ourselves.

~Tenth

The fact that politicians are actually coming out and admitting it without fear of reprisal is what's truly shocking to me.

If your going to do it at least be somewhat ashamed of it.

These guys were talking about doing business in foreign markets, and therein lies the issue. It's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario, and, I think, a completely unworkable situation.

On the one hand you have everyone in the Western World telling you to NOT judge other cultures by Western standards. It's ethnocentric, we are told, to foist our values on foreign cultures, who have just as much a right to their ways of life as we do ours. We are not to interfere. So, for example, we must accept Islam as an OK religion even while we condemn our own, and if Sharia law proclaims the death penalty for adultery and allows you "honor killings" because your daughter glanced at another boy, then, by God, we had better just stay out of it because we have no right to interfere and it's none of our business.

Oh, and bribery. The rest of the world exists on the tradition of bribery. Whether you slip the customs agent in Mexico a twenty to "expedite" the customs process, or you pay the beat cop in Cairo to allow you to park the tour bus close to the Sphinx (I saw this happen myself), or whether you arrange a couple of million to an African dictator on the side to get drilling rights, the fact is that "gung sa ma" (Chinese for "just so much") is an accepted practice in most of the world.

On the other hand, of course, we in the Western World are "held to a higher standard" because, as everyone knows, "bribery = corruption" and is a crime. If you accept so much as the gift of a T-shirt after choosing AT&T over Panasonic for a telephione system you have to report it or risk being fired. The public will become enraged that you enriched yourself with said T-shirt and there will be 100 comments to the story in the newspaper calling for your beheading.

So we are expected to compete to sell goods and services to other countries while the purchasing agents scheme to get the biggest bribes for the contract. In this case an Italian firm was selling helicopters to India. Remember now: You CANNOT judge another culture with your own silly westernized ideas of morality. If you do you are ethnocentric and probably racist, too. That's against the rules. On the other hand you have the other country that's asking how many T-shirts they get if they give the contract to you--sometimes quite openly. And that's against the rules, too. What to do?

Do you want the contract, or not? Berlusconi is telling you the truth here, the absolute truth, the "real politik" of doing business globally. What you call "corruption" the rest of the world calls "doing business normally." In the rest of the world it's not a crime, or is only on paper to appease the westerners. That's exactly what Berlusconi is telling you. You have to come to grips with this when you start calling for beheadings. You don't really want to be told the truth here because it's too upsetting to your sensitive westernized palate. It puts you in a state of cognitive dissonance. Your head may explode from the strain.

Berlusconi is right. Bribes are necessary. They aren't crimes. And if you have ever accepted a T-shirt or a ball cap from a supplier or slipped the maitre d' a few bucks for a good table at a restaurant, you've participated in it, too.

I know some people who work for the State Department.

When they would visit Eastern Bloc countries, they got their passports, and each signed out a chit for a money belt filled with @ 50K in cash, just for bribes.

It's how some business is done.

Not going either way with the topic, but just giving another perspective.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Here you go folks. Proof that people in positions of high power are disconnected from reality. They don't even understand the meaning of corruption anymore.

This is the new normal, the integration of government, corporate and criminal interests.

This is the criminal consensus.

Bribery is the norm. Drug trafficking on an industrial scale is the norm. Money laundering by the banks to facilitate the international drug traffic is the norm. Too big to prosecute is the norm. Pre-emptive war is the norm. Torture has been legitimized.

The sociopaths have taken over.

I could go on and on.

Berlusconi is just being candid about what happens in government, I mean gubmint.

The (cowa)Bunga party? Fans of the Ninja Turtles? So disconnected from the reality of the world that they follow the philosophy of fictional humanoid turtles? Makes sense.

Knew this couldn't be about America. Here we call it "lobbying" and not only is it legal - it's considered honorable and proper.

One day we'll cross the Rubicon into the Twilight Zone and get the disenfranchised to band together to form a lobby for the elimination of lobbying.

If the work is LEGAL Bribes are like tips..
if the work is illegal its corruption

reply to post by beezzer


Is it really worth doing business in a place where it is necessary to grease hands? Wait, what am I saying, we do the same damn thing in the western world, except they call it pretty names like licensing, permits etc etc.

This reminds me of a cartoon I saw:



Good Ol' Bunga Berlusconi.

I know the vid is a bit dated, but...That probably happened at least a few times.

I study economics. Bribes to foreign countries are not considered a crime, but a cost.
You just need to show it is a cost and not a corruption

Wow, i guess that's one way to do it, hey its ok dudes! i mean come on
whats a few bucks between friends..... Lets just ignore the fact that
most people could never compete bribery wise with any business
big or small, lets ignore the fact that allowing this in any way tends to
open the door for a countless number of, you didn't stop at that stop
light long enough, how about you grease the wheels a little and ill let
ya go.

Oh and as to the use of some religious law sure that never breeds
corruption at all, i mean we have NO examples of religious governments
to look at and see how bad they are..... really?

he's right of course

we all bribe pizza delivery men, waitresses, the plow guy, and we even bribe the kids with presents and who hasn't caved in and gotten the candy at the store to quiet the kid ?

get off your high horse, everyone on this board bribes people

just in smaller amounts

reply to post by syrinx high priest


I am implore you to live in a country where this is common, i did for a long time,
it costs allot of money to pay every crooked cop and judiciary member, the guy
at the border, his buddy the guard, oops forgot a sticker for your car that's another
double fine there cause i could just take you to jail, next stop, do it all again,
problem becomes everyone wants in on it and only those with money can win.

Its not a high horse its really really really crummy and annoying when you
actually have to live it...... just like many things that sound great on paper.
Oh and im sure i need to do this, the difference between a waitress,
barber, child, or many other people you bribe or tip is this: they do not have
direct power over your legal status, IE if you don't tip the waitress the worst
that will happen is you don't get good service next time, your child, he throws
a fit, your barber gives you a crummy cut, a cop or judge deprives your freedom.......

Berlusconi: "Bribes Are Necessary - They Are Not Crimes

Sort of related ... (maybe not .. but it's still interesting IMHO )

16 years ago we went to Bolivia to adopt our daughter from an orphanage down there. The entire economy ran on bribes. The poor people as well as the rich. (most were poor). It was all bribes and favors and family ties.

Orphans in Bolivia are not 'people'. They have no paperwork. They are just sorta 'there'. When we went to the local police station to get paperwork for our daughter to prove that she was born and real and that she could travel around the city (you need 'papers' to travel in the cities), we had to slip 20$ into the hands of the officials to get anything done. They wouldn't even look at the papers without getting something slipped to them. This was for EVERYONE .. the poor locals as well as us foreigners. The lines to get things done were out the door and down the street. And if you didn't slip the officials a little something, you couldn't get your paperwork and you wouldn't be able to travel, etc etc.

When our daughter was sick and needed medicine, the hotel we were staying at called us a cab (the hotel owners cousin) who took us to a pharmacy (the cabbies cousin) etc etc etc

Some cultures run on bribes and favors and family ties.

I know it's not the same thing as what is going on with this Berlusconi fella .. But I thought I'd mention that it is ingrained in some cultures and is considered OKAY in them. Just some trivia info ....

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
he's right of course

we all bribe pizza delivery men, waitresses, the plow guy, and we even bribe the kids with presents and who hasn't caved in and gotten the candy at the store to quiet the kid ?

get off your high horse, everyone on this board bribes people

just in smaller amounts

Paying waitresses tips doesn't create a conflict of interest, in which the decisions they make affect millions of people.It's an absolutely horrible argument that's not even close to being worthy of any serious consideration.

Originally posted by Hefficide

Knew this couldn't be about America. Here we call it "lobbying" and not only is it legal - it's considered honorable and proper.

One day we'll cross the Rubicon into the Twilight Zone and get the disenfranchised to band together to form a lobby for the elimination of lobbying.

Sign me up! STEP ONE in the quest to return our government to one that is "Of, By & For" the people, must be the elimination of paid lobbying in America. Nothing will have a bigger impact than this one step.

In America, lobbying = bribery. That's why american corporations spend more on lobbyist than they pay in taxes.