The 10 Commandments - Doctrine of Men

Shameless bump. The ten commandments is being discussed on another thread so I'm bumping this one for people to be able to see it and reference back to it.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Moses was an Egyptian prince and he learned in the best schools that the world had at that time.

This is assuming that Moses was an actual historical person, rather than a character in a story to explain where the Law that the Jews were keeping came from.
The reality is probably more like some southern Israelites who were in contact with Midianites from northwestern Arabia, went to a wilderness holy site where they witnessed an impressive display put on by the priests of the YHWH desert-demon cult.

** Shameless Bump **
This subject has come up in another thread so I'm bumping this for people to see.

Yes, it seems that The Ten Commandments are man-made based on the evidence you gave in The Original Post of them being linked to older religious traditions.

I can tell they are man made because man rules by making "laws". Telling people what to do is "law".

When you are highly aware, you don't need "rules" you just know what needs to be done in the moment. It comes naturally.

It doesn't really matter if the 10 Commandments are man-made or not. They do teach a good foundation on how you should love God and humankind. The Bible was written by people who got teachings and revelations from beings in higher planes and dimensions of existence. So the Bible is man's interpretation of God, not the "Word of God." You might know it or not, but we all have the 10 Commandments and many other spiritual laws hidden within our minds and hearts. Because built within us is the Flame of God, the Mind of God, or whatever you want to call it. We fail to look within us because of the mindset that we are separate from God. But outside of the illusion we call Physical Reality, we are One of God. We have never been separate. What we perceive through our physical senses are only holographic in nature.

reply to post by ctophil


We atheists like to call that "empathy". It's not really a divinely inspired gift or a god-given power. It's just the psychological ability to put yourself in another's shoes. It always confuses me when people give God credit for our morality, because it implies that they don't recognize empathy or employ it. Otherwise, they'd acknowledge the fact that a lot of what they do or don't do is because they know if the roles were reversed, they'd appreciate the same in return. The "Golden Rule" and all that.

There's no deity involved in my moral code. Pure empathy, plain and simple. The fact that some of my feelings coincide with the ten commandments just tells me that perhaps the ten commandments came from something a little closer to home than everyone is willing to accept. I think that makes more sense than some are willing to admit. Have you ever had those moments when you're afraid to be honest with even yourself? Or perhaps being honest with yourself doesn't feel as rewarding as living under a delusion. Perhaps you like the stability it offers.

Either way, I'm one of those people that doesn't like living a lie. Which means if there's a truth to be had, I'm gonna have it. And if someone tells me it's wrong, I'm going to show them why it's right. That's what I'm doing here in this post.

AfterInfinity
I'm one of those people that doesn't like living a lie. Which means if there's a truth to be had, I'm gonna have it.

Exactly. Don't be afraid of truth. And in this case, the 10 Commandments didn't come to Moses on a mountaintop with God writing them on a stone tablet. They are still good rules to live by - don't steal, dont' kill, don't lie - but lets not say that they are unique and that they came down from heaven on a mountaintop when in fact they'd been around for a long long time.

Fantastic thread. Good work FlyersFan!

ATS Thread - The Ancient Egyptian Principle of Ma'at
I'm going to provide a link to the Ancient Egyptian Principle of Ma'at information.
The Principle was what Egyptians lived by and what they learned in their schools.
Moses would have lived his life by it and learned it in school.
9/10 of the Ten Commandments can be found in the Ancient Egyptian Principle of Ma'at

Humans being different from the animals around them, have always had a moral sense since the earliest of times. God made that sense an inherent part of man and that makes it the source of all laws around the world, even those before the 10 commandments. Human societies don't live by the laws of the jungle, but rather by laws against murder, stealing, adultery etc. The 10 commandments resembling the laws of previous cultures doesn't mean that the Israelites took it from somebody else. Rather, those other cultures and humanity as a whole got their moral sense from the One True God. The giving of the 10 commandments was part of God's covenant with Israelites. While they probably already knew by instinct and their experiences in Egypt that certain things were wrong, the 10 commandments formalized it as a law for a people about to settle in a land.

sk0rpi0n
The 10 commandments resembling the laws of previous cultures doesn't mean that the Israelites took it from somebody else.

- It does more than 'resemble the laws of other cultures. It IS the law of other cultures. 9/10 of them were well known around the entire region and were in practice. (and had been in practice for thousands of years)

- Moses, who supposedly gave the 10 Commandments to the Hebrews, was steeped in the laws of MA'AT and he was well trained in all the other laws.

Obviously God didn't give the laws to Moses on a mountaintop. Moses did.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Obviously God didn't give the laws to Moses on a mountaintop. Moses did.

Maybe you mean the second thing is more likely.
I would say that the most likely is that Moses is a fictional character made up long after the events were to have taken place according to the story, but based on written histories that existed of similar real people.

jmdewey60
Maybe you mean the second thing is more likely.

Let me rephrase to be more clear ...

- IF THE STORY OF EXODUS HAPPENED ... and that's a very big 'IF', since a lot of it has been debunked ... then it's rather obvious that Moses would have gotten the 10 Commandments from himself. He was steeped in the laws of Ma'at his whole life, and the laws of Ma'at have 9/10 of the 10 commandments. He was well trained in the Egyptian schools and those schools taught the laws through the centuries, laws which include 9/10 of the 10 Commandments ... including these which predate the 10 Commandments - 2600 BC – Egyptian Book of the Dead, 2100 BC – The Code of Ur-Nammu (Summerian), 1770 BC – The Code of Hammurabi.

How's that? Better?

FlyersFan.... It does more than 'resemble the laws of other cultures. It IS the law of other cultures. 9/10 of them were well known around the entire region and were in practice.

I already stated that all of humanity got their moral sense from God, Who then gave the same moral sense, i.e- ''The Law'' to the Israelites under Moses. So its no surprise (to me) that those before the Israelites had similar laws designed to prohibit immoral behavior...Human norms of morality are from God, and nobody else. which is why the Egyptians and everybody else knew it was wrong to do certain things. Thus, their laws predate the Israelite laws.

sk0rpi0n
Human norms of morality are from God, and nobody else.

You are welcome to that religiously based opinion.

HOWEVER ... the facts remain that the 10 Commandments didn't magically appear in front of Moses while he was sitting on a mountain top. The facts are that 9/10 of the Ten Commandments had been in practice for thousands of years. They were well known. They were a basic part of the Egyptian law - which Moses came from.

The 10 Commandments weren't new. They weren't a one-on-one covenant between God and the Hebrews. The 10 Commandments were made up by men ... made up by men thousands of years earlier ... not presented by God on a mountaintop to Moses.

@FlyersFanThe 10 Commandments weren't new. .

yes. I thought I made that rather clear. Point being, those who had it before the Israelites....got it from God...they did not come up with it themselves.

sk0rpi0n
those who had it before the Israelites....got it from God...they did not come up with it themselves.

Those who had it before the Hebrews weren't monotheistic. Maybe they got it subconsciously from God or maybe the laws evolved with the humans as they saw what worked for society and what didn't. Either way ... The story in the bible of Moses going up on the mountaintop and the hand of God writing the laws, and that it was a new covenant between God and man .. that's just wrong. The evidence points to a human source.

sk0rpi0n

@FlyersFanThe 10 Commandments weren't new. .

yes. I thought I made that rather clear. Point being, those who had it before the Israelites....got it from God...they did not come up with it themselves.

Are you familiar with the Code of Ur-Nammu? Or the Hittite documents? Or the Egyptian book of the dead?

reply to post by FlyersFan


The original 10 commandments were written for the elohim as a warning to not get too close to the human (very simply to not interbreed). The second were bastardized/simplified for the 'manimal'. Though a separation occured between man and God (at some point the telepathic connection was lost 400,000 years ago) the second set of commandments was as Ctophil and Lone 12 alluded to always existed within the hearts of this specie. I suppose this mandate came from the Tiphareth awareness; the balancing of mercy with severity (harmony as its base function). Tiphareth is the center of the Tree of Life, directly under the influence of Kether or the nothingness (out of which everything came into being; what one would call God). This is the point where man existing directly below and under Yesod; Malkuth (all things material,mineral,elemental, mankind) can achieve in harmony; make a contact point with 'god'. This idea of "law" as commanding to do so is extremely flawed, as it does one thing subject to corruption: the potencial extinquishing of Mans freewill, or warping the true proclimation "love is the law love under will". Love being a force not an emotion. So you see, as these 'spanking laws' are very very old; any newer civilization (even that which is 7000 BC years young); could have picked them up and used them to their own discretion (AND THEY DID). Someone asked who was responsible for the laws (which ones); good question, a better question would be who was responsible the first initial set.

reply to post by FlyersFan


In the Bible, according to Paul,
Even Gentiles, who do not have God's written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. They demonstrate that God's law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right. - Romans 2:14-15

And that is why others before the Israelites had similar laws. Their inclination towards morality was from God, in the first place.

As for Moses, Jesus respected him and referred to him. He even acknowledged the Pharisees authority on the law because they occupied Moses' seat. So, I'd rather listen to Jesus as far as Moses prophethood is concerned.