reply to post by colin42
"I don’t agree with your comment that people are born with the knowledge as one of the questions parents do not look forward to being asked is
mummy/daddy am I going to die as well? That happens when the child becomes old enough to question the world around it."
I think this question is asked with an understanding of the possible out comes like most questions are asked. A child asks "is Santa Claus real"
because they have an idea that he is not. If a child was not protected/taught a certain way how old would that child be when he/she asks the question?
Siddhartha was an adult when he asked the question. Our protectiveness for our children and ourselves may cause the condition, you do not look forward
to being asked the question, you admit that yourself. So the avoidance of the subject may condition a young child to avoid it also and an
understanding that is already present is lost and a replacement belief is assimilated.
"Dogs pining for lost owners and mates is really down to opinion so yours is as valid as mine but what I have observed is a dog has a strong pack
instinct so it 'worries' about its missing pack member but I would not say that shows that same dog is aware of its own mortality."
What I have witness is a stud walk around a recently deceased female with a delicate gait I had never seen in his 10 years up until then. She was his
companion for many years, he laid his head on her corpse and let out a whimper that brought me to tears.
"There are many examples of animals showing confusion when confronted by the death of an infant, attempting to wake it or standing guard over the
corpse but again I don’t see this displays awareness of its own mortality"
It is subjective, no one can argue what a dog feels but if a dog can feel confusion why could it not feel heartbreak. From what I witnessed you could
not possibly conclude the dog was aware of his own mortality, however I believe he was aware of his mates.
"This link supports both our views and as with everything the truth is in the eye of the beholder. I would be interested in your comments
Mother Gorilla Morns Baby
I have no doubt other animals have emotions but to me the Gorilla displays it does not understand the baby is dead and certainly displays no signs of
being aware of its own mortality."
I witnessed a car accident in which a child was thrown from the back seat into the front. The mother and aunt were in the front seats. A friend and I
ran up to the car and tried our hardest to get into the car it was a mangled mess. The aunt was broken in half and dieing the young boy was thrown to
the roof then the windshield and the dash but stayed in the car, he was dead. The mother had broken her wrist on the steering wheel, hand barley
attached her legs were badly broken. She was in her own physical pain and the way she held her son was very similar to how that gorilla held her baby.
I'm sorry I had to write something that is disturbing but it is the only first hand personal reference I have to fall back on.
I like this discussion but don't believe we will ever know the answer, as we know very little about self-awareness in general, let alone when certain
functions of that awareness developed. That doesn't mean to me that the exercise of sharing feelings or intuitions is a bad idea. I think there is
real value in this conversation, I can't really say anybodies going to be persuaded, I don't have any ego invested tho. So nothing ventured nothing
gained. Just what my personal logic tells me from what I've seen in my life experiences. I have just found this site and was happy to read some well
thought out ideas. I'm glad to be here and hope this conversation continues or similar ones arise.
For now I must get some zzzs
edit on 16-2-2013 by Cowpunk because: corrected grammar
edit on 16-2-2013 by Cowpunk because: (no reason given)