The biggest paradigm change in the world’s history

Here is a topic I don’t ever remember seeing discussed. The biggest paradigm change in the world’s history, the day mans ancestor realised that everything that has a beginning has an end, including him.

The day before our ancestor had lived his life the same way as he always had, the same as everyone that preceded him had. Reacting to events, using his experience to feed himself and his family.

What event caused the revelation that he was mortal, that one day his life would end with absolute certainty we will never know. We can only guess at the terror this revelation caused, I imagine it was almost disabling and worst still once discovered could not be denied.

His logic once used only to get from A to B, or overcome an immediate problem would now have to be employed in abstract thought and my guess one immediate problem that he was confronted with is the same one we all face today. The question of ‘Why am I here’.

With the discovery of mans mortality on this momentous day the way mankind viewed the world in which he lived, the path that man would follow changed forever.

I picture a terrified creature huddle somewhere he felt safe denying this new knowledge but also being unable unlearn the truth. He will die, everything dies.

This creature would be crippled by waves of many emotions and who knows if anger, horror and guilt were born in that dark fear filled place but one thing for sure. His logic and reasoning enabled him to realise his mortality and somewhere in that early human brain he built a defence to enable him to continue. He built a shield and a story to answer ‘why am I here’.

The creature that entered the place it felt most safe, full of fear and horror of an undeniable truth finally stood up, walked back out into this world that to him was a very different world than that he knew a day before. This was the day humanity come of age. The dawn of what was to become mankind.

One thing is for sure. I am proud to be related to such a brave creature and for those that deny we are connected to this noble soul. That are outraged by the thought we share a common ancestor with all other primates, you belittle yourselves.

I ask you to discuss. Did that knowledge of mans mortality give birth to true abstract thought, art, science, religion even love? Do we owe all we are today to that one profound discovery? We all die?

Was this the biggest paradigm change in the history of our world?

reply to post by colin42


Well, it probably happened when the smart ones saw all their older relatives die of old age (23), or their friends fall in fights with the mammoths, and a few lovers carried off by saber-toothed tigers. A light bulb might have gone off over the head of a few of them at that time. So they were moved into an awareness stage, as you say, from their former existence as purely an animal la la la ing along the trail.

You make a good case that this point was a huge shift in human experience, and this will be a good thread.

reply to post by colin42

I ask you to discuss. Did that knowledge of mans mortality give birth to true abstract thought, art, science, religion even love? Do we owe all we are today to that one profound discovery? We all die?

I don't think that the conscious awareness of mans mortality gave birth to abstract thought, art, science, religion and love. Rather, many of these things were developed in a 'evolutionary process' that was driven by the relationships between individuals.

As to mortality, it's a good question as to how and when man first had the ability to communicate with one's self the reality of death. Is it even possible that the brain conversed this to consciousness via a totally archaic language of emotion and symbolic visuals, something like autism meats Bicameralism.

Bicameralism (the philosophy of "two-chamberedness") is a hypothesis in psychology that argues that the human brain once assumed a state in which cognitive functions were divided between one part of the brain which appears to be "speaking", and a second part which listens and obeys—a bicameral mind.

en.wikipedia.org...

THINKING IN PICTURES
with 2006 Updates from the Expanded Edition
Chapter 1: Autism and Visual Thought
Dr. Temple Grandin

www.grandin.com...

Thought > Relationships > Love > Abstract Thinking > Communication > Art > Religion

Art and Communication may ultimately be considered the same thing.

There's kind of a irony in dichotomy of these things as we've evolved. I may have listed them in wrong order, but if my memory serves me correctly, this is how it was arranged. To think that our very communications, is Art in its purest form, the only thing there is to think about are your relationships and interaction with the outside world.

Thinking in abstractions is considered to be one of the key traits in modern human behaviour, which is believed to have developed between 50,000 and 100,000 years ago, probably before the modern human exodus from Africa.[2] Its development is likely to have been closely connected with the development of human language, which (whether spoken or written) appears to both involve and facilitate abstract thinking.[2]

en.wikipedia.org...

The need for communication created abstract thinking.

The need for relationships created communication.

The need for survival created the need for relationships.

Uh oh, is it that then... the very conscious or subconscious knowledge of mortality is the basis for survival?

I think you're on to something.

If it's all, self-preservation, and procreation... to which I'd argue that 'self-preservation of species' is on this list, is it procreation that drives relationships which evolution helped with and created love? Which then ties into a question I've pondered for a little while now, which is... Is it possible that homosexuals are acting in accordance with what is perceived to be conducive towards their own, or even the 'species' preservation? Is there possibly a mortality awareness factor associate with homosexuals? Maybe for a different thread.

Anyways, interesting thread. I always love rambling on about this type of stuff lol.

S&Fs

I

Interesting

But I prefer to think that once our mortality was realized, the individual found peace in the knowledge that we all die and nothing we do matters. So he went out to go find himself a really good steak...

Then he was eaten by a saber toothed tiger.

the greatest paradigm shift came because of the Manhatten Project in 1944

then the resulting use of atomic weapons on Japan

now there is Japans' revenge ,,,Fukashima

Yes, the biggest shift in the American mindset, is about to be revealed........

Incredibly, The 2014 Chevrolet SS will be revealed in the US tomorrow, Yes.....and OMG, it is Rear Wheel Drive!!!! The first rear wheel drive Chevrolet passenger car, in 400 and 65000 years!!!!

Will Chaos abound? Will Time stop? Will Cult members of the great FWD, jump off a cliff? Will Chevy Fans Rejoice???

All will happen in just a few more hours.........The USA car enthusiast...holds his breath.....
Will time ever exist again.

Originally posted by St Udio
the greatest paradigm shift came because of the Manhatten Project in 1944

then the resulting use of atomic weapons on Japan

now there is Japans' revenge ,,,Fukashima

You think that man discovering a quicker way to destroy life had a bigger effect on the way human beings relate to the world they live in that without doubt resulted in religion, relationships, the way we view other life and the impact our actions have on this world we live in?

It was a big change but I don’t agree it was bigger than the realisation of mortality but hey, that’s what this discussion is about so you could very well be correct. Thanks for your input.

reply to post by retirednature

I don't think that the conscious awareness of mans mortality gave birth to abstract thought, art, science, religion and love. Rather, many of these things were developed in a 'evolutionary process' that was driven by the relationships between individuals.

Thanks for your thoughts. Not sure I can agree with this point though

We went from simple tools to, in comparison complex painting and carvings in a relatively short period of time. Some claim aliens did it.

I am asking the question could we make a case for the relation showing mortality did it? In my opinion there is no reason for religion if it is not to explain 'why we are here' and what happens after death. I am nowhere near an expert on religions but I am unaware of any that do not offer an explanation of life after death.

When did we see ourselves living on through our children? You would have to realise you were going to die to have that thought so the way you see your family and its importance would be changed.

Knowing when you took a life of any animal and now with the knowledge of the finality of that action would result in guilt. We see this still today with many discussions about the morality of eating meat.

Of course evolution plays its part but the way we interact with the environment influences the selection evolution describes and denying evolution is not what this thread was meant to be about. I know that is not what you inferred but I wanted to make that clear.

I would rather find and acknowledge real truth about the human condition, rather than embrace lies and fantasy because primitive man had to create stories to explain existence out of fear of death and survival.

Originally posted by jheherrin
I would rather find and acknowledge real truth about the human condition, rather than embrace lies and fantasy because primitive man had to create stories to explain existence out of fear of death and survival.

I think you have missed the point entirely. This is not about the stories man made up, it is about how early man came to see the world.

Originally posted by colin42
I think you have missed the point entirely. This is not about the stories man made up, it is about how early man came to see the world.

Yeah, I did read that incorrectly, because of this bit:

One thing is for sure. I am proud to be related to such a brave creature and for those that deny we are connected to this noble soul. That are outraged by the thought we share a common ancestor with all other primates, you belittle yourselves.

Apologies. However, I'm still not sure I would be proud to be connected to such a creature, because, if true, this paradigm was the seed of ideologies that still keep us from understanding the real truths about the human condition, and instead keep us locked down in superstitious dogma. However, as another poster postulated, this could have an evolutionary element, which is an idea I've entertained myself and seems to have a lot of merit.

reply to post by jheherrin
No Need to apologise it was probably clumsy writing on my part.

This may help explain thing better Scientists teach Gorilla it will die

Although this seems like cruelty to me the gorilla as it does not have the tools to cope but displays pretty much what I am talking about

Now apply that to our early ancestor. Hope this helps

Doesn't animals fearing other animals will kill them is actually in fact fearing death?

ex: Deer running away from Lion.

They know about death, they just don't pay much attention to it or ponder over t.

Originally posted by luciddream
Doesn't animals fearing other animals will kill them is actually in fact fearing death?

ex: Deer running away from Lion.

They know about death, they just don't pay much attention to it or ponder over t.

Its a good point but no I don’t think that is the same thing at all.

The deer probably does not worry about being killed before it is threatened. Its fight or flight instinct takes over when it is being hunted. It survives because of these instincts but it shows no signs of knowing that one day it will die. There is a huge difference.

An interesting topic to ponder. My first thoughts are by the time any early man was old enough to ponder anything, make plans, search for food, he would have been confronted by and aware of death and it's permanence. I think the awareness would be there from the beginning and only modern men and their desire to protect their children would cause a sudden realization of the concept of personal mortality. Like the story of Siddhartha Gautama who was protected by his father and his position from the realities of suffering and death. The lack of awareness he had before he ventured out and learned of the tribulations of men caused him great mental and emotional distress. Distress he would not have experienced if he wasn't misled to begun with.

When I was a young teen my family bred dogs. I remember witnessing some dogs mourning the death of other dogs when they had passed. I have seen dogs mourn the death of their owners. I could see the stress the pets were under, stress that my mind can only rationalize as an awareness that death is permanent and the passed away kennel friends and pet owner were not coming back. I have seen primates mourn when one of their own dies. I guess from my own personal experience I have come to believe awareness of your own personal ending is inherent from birth and only after being raised by someone who wants to protect you from that reality we start to believe otherwise.

I think maybe the biggest paradigm shift in human history occurred early, when the first man realized he could lie to another and get away with it.

Cowpunk

reply to post by Cowpunk
Interesting answer thanks

I don’t agree with your comment that people are born with the knowledge as one of the questions parents do not look forward to being asked is mummy/daddy am I going to die as well? That happens when the child becomes old enough to question the world around it.

Dogs pining for lost owners and mates is really down to opinion so yours is as valid as mine but what I have observed is a dog has a strong pack instinct so it 'worries' about its missing pack member but I would not say that shows that same dog is aware of its own mortality.

There are many examples of animals showing confusion when confronted by the death of an infant, attempting to wake it or standing guard over the corpse but again I don’t see this displays awareness of its own mortality

This link supports both our views and as with everything the truth is in the eye of the beholder. I would be interested in your comments

Mother Gorilla Morns Baby

I have no doubt other animals have emotions but to me the Gorilla displays it does not understand the baby is dead and certainly displays no signs of being aware of its own mortality.

reply to post by colin42
It's an appealing notion to imagine a specific moment in time for recognising death. On the other hand it's more likely that such ideas were well-established in the species through simple awareness. With Nature being 'red in tooth and claw' it's almost inconceivable that early people (even hominids) could have been unaware of mortality. Perhaps, dimly, all the smarter species know they will die?

However another moment in time could be considered one of the biggest paradigm changes in history and it's my favourite one. It's the notional moment when one of our ancestors hefted a rock in their leathery hands and realised what damage it could do to an animal. It could be said that the history of mankind rests on the sharp end of that point in time; without it we wouldn't be here.

Perhaps second to that moment was when another hominid struck a stone core to create an edge-tool. From fire to flags on the moon...when that thought flickered through the sentient awareness of that anonymous individual, our futures were sealed.

reply to post by colin42



"I don’t agree with your comment that people are born with the knowledge as one of the questions parents do not look forward to being asked is mummy/daddy am I going to die as well? That happens when the child becomes old enough to question the world around it."

I think this question is asked with an understanding of the possible out comes like most questions are asked. A child asks "is Santa Claus real" because they have an idea that he is not. If a child was not protected/taught a certain way how old would that child be when he/she asks the question? Siddhartha was an adult when he asked the question. Our protectiveness for our children and ourselves may cause the condition, you do not look forward to being asked the question, you admit that yourself. So the avoidance of the subject may condition a young child to avoid it also and an understanding that is already present is lost and a replacement belief is assimilated.

"Dogs pining for lost owners and mates is really down to opinion so yours is as valid as mine but what I have observed is a dog has a strong pack instinct so it 'worries' about its missing pack member but I would not say that shows that same dog is aware of its own mortality."

What I have witness is a stud walk around a recently deceased female with a delicate gait I had never seen in his 10 years up until then. She was his companion for many years, he laid his head on her corpse and let out a whimper that brought me to tears.

"There are many examples of animals showing confusion when confronted by the death of an infant, attempting to wake it or standing guard over the corpse but again I don’t see this displays awareness of its own mortality"

It is subjective, no one can argue what a dog feels but if a dog can feel confusion why could it not feel heartbreak. From what I witnessed you could not possibly conclude the dog was aware of his own mortality, however I believe he was aware of his mates.

"This link supports both our views and as with everything the truth is in the eye of the beholder. I would be interested in your comments

Mother Gorilla Morns Baby

I have no doubt other animals have emotions but to me the Gorilla displays it does not understand the baby is dead and certainly displays no signs of being aware of its own mortality."

I witnessed a car accident in which a child was thrown from the back seat into the front. The mother and aunt were in the front seats. A friend and I ran up to the car and tried our hardest to get into the car it was a mangled mess. The aunt was broken in half and dieing the young boy was thrown to the roof then the windshield and the dash but stayed in the car, he was dead. The mother had broken her wrist on the steering wheel, hand barley attached her legs were badly broken. She was in her own physical pain and the way she held her son was very similar to how that gorilla held her baby. I'm sorry I had to write something that is disturbing but it is the only first hand personal reference I have to fall back on.

I like this discussion but don't believe we will ever know the answer, as we know very little about self-awareness in general, let alone when certain functions of that awareness developed. That doesn't mean to me that the exercise of sharing feelings or intuitions is a bad idea. I think there is real value in this conversation, I can't really say anybodies going to be persuaded, I don't have any ego invested tho. So nothing ventured nothing gained. Just what my personal logic tells me from what I've seen in my life experiences. I have just found this site and was happy to read some well thought out ideas. I'm glad to be here and hope this conversation continues or similar ones arise.

For now I must get some zzzs
Good Night
Cowpunk

Cowpunk

Thanks for the thoughtful replies

I am an advocate for Evolution but sometimes I find it useful to step back from a clinical view and consider how emotions and how life reacts to the world that shapes it

I used a bit of poetic licence in my OP as I don’t see this as only happening in one person but sometimes it is easier to view it via an individual and then expand out once you have formed a basic picture

As others have said it is hard to tell what other animals are thinking and feeling, it’s hard enough to tell what other people are thinking and feeling and further complicated by each individual reacting in different ways to the same event.

I believe we underestimate the impact that things we take for granted play in our lives. Understanding as a fact that for certain we will die has occupied the mind of man more than any other. I can see none that has had more effect even war.

If we had no understanding of the finality of our own death then I maintain we would have no religion or certainly not the ones we have seen so far. Art and literature has been greatly influenced by thoughts of death, religion and the ponderings of an afterlife.

You could liken that understanding of mortality as being that original sin the bible talks of that resulted in man losing the garden of Eden or even earlier Pandora opening that box so this is not a unique question by any means.

BTW I don’t see this discovery being modern mans but more somewhere between our common ancestor with other primates and us. From that point we began to move away from the environment selecting advantage replaced with intellect selecting advantage which is why some maintain evolution does not explain man. It certainly does in my opinion but the advantage selected for by the environment over time has been subtlety change by man himself for reasons already given.

I look forward to others views. If nothing else it is a nice break to chew the fat and share views that no one can claim as the truth one way or the other.

Originally posted by colin42
Here is a topic I don’t ever remember seeing discussed. The biggest paradigm change in the world’s history, the day mans ancestor realised that everything that has a beginning has an end, including him.

The day before our ancestor had lived his life the same way as he always had, the same as everyone that preceded him had. Reacting to events, using his experience to feed himself and his family.

What event caused the revelation that he was mortal, that one day his life would end with absolute certainty we will never know. We can only guess at the terror this revelation caused, I imagine it was almost disabling and worst still once discovered could not be denied.

I ask you to discuss. Did that knowledge of mans mortality give birth to true abstract thought, art, science, religion even love? Do we owe all we are today to that one profound discovery? We all die?

Was this the biggest paradigm change in the history of our world?

I think that Cain had seen plants and animals die before and that Adam and Eve would have told their children about the "..or you will surely die." clause that they disregarded and that God told Adam "Cursed is the ground for your sake." Honestly I think that the biggest paradigm change in the history was recorded. Jesus and his teachings.