Eurofighters at Langley AFB for joint training with the F-22s

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posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 09:12 PM
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A couple of weeks ago, or so, the X1 squadron, EFs, from the RAF arrived at Langley to co-train with one of the Raptor squadrons before a scheduled "flag" type exercise.

I've been googling regularly for anything covering the results, comments by the pilots, etc. All there was was a statement by both squadron leaders that were almost verbatim and largely said nothing, when they arrived.

Has anyone, maybe in Britain, heard anything? That training must be nearing it's end if it isn't done already.

Nary a word thus far.....
edit on 14-2-2013 by nwtrucker because: spelling error




posted on Feb, 15 2013 @ 12:37 AM
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It'll be awhile before you see any reports come out. They have to get home and go over the details first. Give it a couple weeks after they head home and you'll start to see things being leaked. I'll keep my ears to the ground and post anything I come across.



posted on Feb, 15 2013 @ 02:00 AM
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reply to post by nwtrucker
 

G,day mate. on at least one visit by the RAF with the eurofighter the yanks closed the exercise down, spat their collective dummy's and went home cause a typhoon got a lock on. yep, you can figure rest.



posted on Feb, 15 2013 @ 04:29 AM
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The F-22 has lost in exercises multiple times. The AF wants to know when, and now, so they learn how to not lose them in real combat. They've lost them to Typhoons (apparently multiple times), Hornets, even a T-38 once. Everyone makes a huge deal about it when it happens, but it's going to happen, and it'll eventually happen in real combat. Stealth, no matter how advanced does not equal invincible, or invisible.



posted on Feb, 15 2013 @ 05:36 AM
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Many years ago, exersize bright star showed up a lot failings, don t know if the reports are still extent, but interesting reading at the time.



posted on Feb, 15 2013 @ 09:48 AM
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Failings?? I don't get it?? There's never been a plane that can't be shot down...ever.

Sure, the early hype with the 144-1 kill ratio was by very senior F-15 pilots who transitioned into the Raptor. They knew the 15s backwards. The 15 drivers knew nothing about the Raptor. I'm sure those numbers have evened out a bit since then.

No plane is the best at everything. But from what I've read, from pilots, not political pundits, there's not a better platform to be in, now and in the future. That includes anything under developement from China or Russia.

Both the U.S. and Britian will benifit from this exercise, co-ordination wise and any 1v1 that they might play around with in their "spare time".

That T-38 was a bad hair day for the 22 driver. Definite pilot error. The 38 pilots were I.P.s.. Very, very good pilots.LOL



posted on Feb, 15 2013 @ 10:09 AM
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reply to post by nwtrucker
 


The info on the T-38 came from a F-15 driver who was with his plane on static display at the Abbotsford, Canada air show a couple of years ago that I was talking to. The Raptor had just taken one T-38 trainer out, the second one "crossed his T" above him, dropped in on his six and gunned him.

Much trash talk and beers bought with one very red face that night....



posted on Feb, 15 2013 @ 10:50 AM
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reply to post by pronto
 


G'day, Pronto. I see the Raptor's flight demonstration team is going to be at Avalon at the end of this month.

I don't know if that demonstration is every day of the event or not. If you have a mind to, you might go see this for yourself. I'm betting you'll be impressed.

Personally. I'm flat out blown away by the Raptor. Just my opinion though...



posted on Feb, 15 2013 @ 11:39 AM
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Sorry to drift off topic but couldn't help ask as someone was talking about the EFs locking on to the Raptor wasn't there a time when the f-117 and b-2 detected by British radar

On topic I'm gutted I didn't chase my dream at becoming a pilot, now being 27 close to 28 years old I could of been sitting on the tarmac in my own euro fighter



posted on Feb, 15 2013 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by ThePeaceMaker
Sorry to drift off topic but couldn't help ask as someone was talking about the EFs locking on to the Raptor wasn't there a time when the f-117 and b-2 detected by British radar


The F-117 and B-2 are not completely invisible to RF energy. They have radar defeating capabilities and designs and that shouldn't be confused with the oft-reported "invisible to radar". Also, it depends on when they were picked up. Were they on a training exercise? If so, those two planes will have an attached "RCB" or radar-cross section block attached to the plane to allow at least a larger signature to be picked up by friendly search radar. Other questions arise too: was it search or beacon that picked it up? If it was search, see above. If it was beacon, well...that is basically a radio interrogation of aircraft in the coverage area.

Other factors to include: Trajectory of the aircraft in relation to the radar site. An aircraft of this design flying "at" a radar will effectively defeat the radar capabilities and be "invisible" (rather, will return a signature that isn't indicative of its size). On the other hand, an aircraft flying parallel to the radar site presents a larger cross-section and could return enough RF energy to give a positive indication of an aircraft.


ETA: A little background. I worked ground-radar maintenance at Holloman AFB when the F-117s were there. It was a pain in the butt considering the out-dated system we were working with. Looking at the "raw" radar returns, even with attached RCB, the RF return was smaller than the T-38s that flew with them. We were only able to track without loss of the target because of the correlation of secondary radar (beacon returns).
edit on 15-2-2013 by ownbestenemy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2013 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by ThePeaceMaker
 


The F-117, the B-2, and the F-22 all have systems that you aren't going to ever hear about, that make them stealthier than their normal RCS, when they're flying from point A to point B. The B-2 that was locked on by a Rapier was flying into an airshow, and didn't have anything turned on. They don't even turn those systems on when they're playing with US aircraft. The only time they're ever used is during actual combat, to keep anyone from recording any signals (French AF).



posted on Feb, 15 2013 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


Also, the Rapier is optically guided, so if you can see it you can shoot at it, no matter how "stealthy" it is. The Rapier though wouldn't be any use against the B2 in operations as it flies very high and the Rapier is a close-in system with a range of 8Km.



posted on Feb, 15 2013 @ 03:15 PM
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Hey thanks for your replies I learn everytime I come here and sorry to steer thread of the rail a bit. Thanks for the insite to radars returns etc.

Zaph regarding the b2 being picked up on radar during visit to the UK this might of been when I first saw the b2 makes its first public appearance at RAF/USAF Mildenhall



posted on Feb, 15 2013 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by ThePeaceMaker
 


It probably was. I know it was fairly early on in the life of it. It's been upgraded several times, and is about to be upgraded again by NG. But I've learned a bit about little known systems on the aircraft that make it rather interesting, and much less likely for it to be picked up in a "real world" situation.



posted on Feb, 15 2013 @ 03:56 PM
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reply to post by ThePeaceMaker
 


It wasn't radar though - The Rapier 2000 system is optical/IR guided.

That said though, I knew of a project around 10 years ago to use cellphone signals to detect stealth aircraft called CELLDAR. It must have got results, as they are now using the same technique to track individual raindrops:

www.bbc.co.uk...

Thing is, stealth doesn't mean invisible to radar, just difficult to detect. Long wave radar can pick up an aircraft like the B2, but because the resolution of the radar is so big it can't be used for targeting as you can only narrow down the aircraft's location to a few hundred metre - so I am told, anyway.



posted on Feb, 15 2013 @ 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by stumason
Thing is, stealth doesn't mean invisible to radar, just difficult to detect. Long wave radar can pick up an aircraft like the B2, but because the resolution of the radar is so big it can't be used for targeting as you can only narrow down the aircraft's location to a few hundred metre - so I am told, anyway.


Considering range for a radar is determined by the following R = c * t / 2; where c = speed of light and t = measured time.

Resolution itself does utilize some wavelength functions and is determined by (basic formula) S(r) = c * p / 2; where c = speed of light and p = pulse-width. Which of course, pulse-width will be affected by the operating frequency.

That is in your basic pulse-modulated radar but newer technology such as intra-pulse modulation (compressed pulse modulation) has a bit different equation. This type of modulation would allow a relatively long pulse-width but because of the compression, extremely high resolution.

I am guessing that is what you meant by "long wave"?



posted on Feb, 15 2013 @ 04:19 PM
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reply to post by ownbestenemy
 


I am just repeating what I've been told by peeps I know in the military - as I understand it, "long wave radar" is off a lower frequency (sub 1Ghz) and as frequency is a function of wavelength, tis where I coined the term.

But I am not a radar, or even radio, expert - I do optical networking so I'd bow down to those in the know



posted on Feb, 15 2013 @ 04:59 PM
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Stumason and zaph again thanks for the replies I'm clearly out my league with you lot, you lot know far more than I do
thank you all for your input



posted on Feb, 15 2013 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by ThePeaceMaker
 


I wouldn't say that
- I'm just an enthusiastic plebeian!

Zaph, on the other hand, does know his stuff...



posted on Feb, 15 2013 @ 05:32 PM
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reply to post by stumason
 


Well you know your stuff as well and I know about zaph I've praised him enough in some of his posts that if anyone saw it would be classed and brown nosing haha na he is a clever man arnt you zaph always looking out for his threads always has some great infomation to share. If I need to know anything about aviation ask him ... Right my nose is very brown now so it's time to sleep providing the mrs isn't up to her usual snoring

Thanks again for the insight (correct spelling?) regarding the radars etc
edit on 15-2-2013 by ThePeaceMaker because: (no reason given)






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