Why You Should Be Outraged By What Is Being Done to Our Postal Service

Originally posted by SnakeShot
Its was almost comical when I saw the postmaster on Fox News several days ago say- we have to stop Saturday delivery so that we don't have to raise rates.
This right after they DOUBLED the price for international shipping! It now costs me over $6 to send a
tiny 1 ounce almost flat bubble mailer package internationally! Go up a couple ounces, its $8.88.
Its almost like they Don't want us exporting more product!

Also, I never understood the arguement that they have less revenue since the internet.
Because of the internet, WAY more packages then ever are being shipped. If anything, I would think
they would be doing better.

The point of my original reply/post is that the postmaster was on fox news saying, LYING, they were going to stop Saturday delivery so that they didn't have to raise rates, when in fact they just raised rates WAY up just days prior.

reply to post by MrSpad


In the first quarter of fiscal 2012 (Oct.-Dec.), the Postal Service lost $3.3 billion. In the second quarter (Jan.-March), it lost $2.2 billion.

During the third quarter alone, when the Postal Service lost a total of $5.2 billion, the service was losing money at a rate of $57,142,857 per days.

The Postal Service said that it had to use $3.1 billion in the third quarter

Who do you think pays for these huge losses? The taxpayer. It gets worse every day. It can not be sustained. USPS is a money pit. They need to either reform it or privatize it. Kicking the can down the road is not working.

I realize I'm late to this party but the irony here is that this very thread is part of the problem.
Why is the OP using the Internet to get the word out, why not just send out the message to all in the form of junk mail?

The reason that the USPS is having problems is because they are yet another victim of the times, a victim of the conveniences we have grown accustomed to and there's no turning back. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out.

Honestly, when was the last time anyone actually made a bill payment by snail mail?
I mailed out four letters just this last past week and bought some MLB commerative stamps which I have already misplaced.

But dont worry folks, they may be having problems now, but in just a couple of years, these soon to be abandoned government facilities known as US Post Offices will be converted into US Hospitals and we will once again see the long lines of yesteryear.

I see multiple angles here.

People bitch at the government for being dictatorial, or inefficient, but what is the alternative?

People bitch at corporations for being antisocial, and ineffective systems providing communities, but what is the alternative?

If a system doesn't work, it must be revamped, else transcended.

Technology is making some of government, and the old way of doing business unfeasible.

Maybe it's best to privatize the mail, but revise corporate laws.

Corporations as is have the potential to be even worse than governments.

Both need to be changed before the world gets better.

One less ridiculously highly paid unskilled job option for the clod who barely finishes high school.

I used to really bust my ass to help these unskilled people gain the skills they needed to qualify for the jobs that are out there.

It wears on you after a while. It wears on you when you explain to some guy that's been making $50K a year hauling trash or stacking logs that the online application is the first measure of whether or not he can perform the tasks that will be asked of him and he just walks away.

"I dont want to learn that #" they say. Even after offering hand-holding and one on one instruction for as long as it takes to get them through it.

Too many people are simply refusing to adapt. They just want things to be the way they were. I can sympathize with that desire but reality isnt going to alter course so they can buy a house, two cars and raise kids on doing nothing more than pulling the arm of a drill press for 8 hours a day.

The tax forms being sent out in fewer and fewer numbers is going to result in a lot of folks not filing soon enough. They shut down and refuse to go online to get their forms or the rate schedule. If the paper form doenst appear in their hand they just wont file.

Ignorance is one thing. Willful, stubborn, intentional ignorance is another.

Obsolescence will hit us all eventually. Adapt or die. The USPS isnt adapting. Neither is the government at large for that matter.

Blows my mind when I encounter some illiterate crank pulling monkey used to living on $50, $60, even $100K when I consider all the years of schooling and training and contributions to my field against my meager pittance, shack in the woods, diet of rice and beans and my 20 year old junker.

Then when I try to bring them in and instruct them and help them they spit in my face as if I am to blame for their obsolescence?

That collapsed into a rant quick.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Ignorance is one thing. Willful, stubborn, intentional ignorance is another.

I agree.

Obsolescence will hit us all eventually. Adapt or die. The USPS isnt adapting. Neither is the government at large for that matter.

You may find my intro thread interesting.

Then when I try to bring them in and instruct them and help them they spit in my face as if I am to blame for their obsolescence?

That collapsed into a rant quick.

The thing is, the learning curve is exponential in the information age relative to time.

Though you are young and bright, I believe a day will come when you are no longer in your intellectual prime, yet still have many years left.

Will you become bitter? Will you accept your obsolescence in stride?

What of the billions of others in your shoes?

Just something to consider.

I'm a decade your senior, still fairly technological savvy, but think that too will fade in time.

At what point does the human race reach obsolescence?

At what point does humanity fight back?

At what point does a skill become obsolete? Will his mind still be so agile as to learn a more complex skill set?

Things to consider.

I do a lot of Ebay and refuse to send or recieve anything USPS it's just not good business. Slow and impossible to track

I do almost everything online.

Ninety percent of what I get in the mail is junk mail.

Why should I pay more for a service I don't really use?

Originally posted by nomnom

The thing is, the learning curve is exponential in the information age relative to time.

Though you are young and bright, I believe a day will come when you are no longer in your intellectual prime, yet still have many years left.

Will you become bitter? Will you accept your obsolescence in stride?

I dont believe that scenario which so many take for granted as an inevitability is truly as inevitable as so many believe it to be.

Right now there's a fellow in his 80's a room over coding a site for his home business and a woman in the sitting room who looks to be in her 60's Skyping on an iPad while yesterday some kid in his 20's flipped out on me and stormed away as I was walking him through getting his first email address.

From what I have seem a mind that is willing to learn wants to learn and as such is always learning regardless of age and a mind that is stagnant and refuses to learn never will regardless of age.

Barring disease, disorder, or any physical impairments that may develop over time of course.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Kid, do you realize how rare that 80 and 60 year old are?

Do you know of the relation of openness to experience, and intellect?

I share your frustration, but it's grounded in elitism.

You see someone who is "willfully ignorant" and assume it's that they are not hardwired that way.

I think of it like a teacher who beats a kid who is "unwilling" to learn to read.

Some people simply aren't cut out for things, and it's pure genetic.

reply to post by Chrisfishenstein


I dont mean to offend, but that sounded retarded.

have you been a postman?

I have not, but I know it is not "easy". I once volunteered here and there in HS. At one point I ended up helping the democratic national committee sorting their news letters and sending them out. It was NOT easy.

I once helped out my rectory for my confirmation hours.....sorting and sending out their mail....it was not easy.

While the process is not rocket science, try something for me. Type your name for 1 hour. You wont make it for an hour. I dont think you would make it 5 minutes.....you know your name right? it is not hard to type it right?
Then why cant you do it for 1 hour, let alone 8 hours?

You know how to use a shovel right? Why cant you shovel dirt for 8 hours? Why cant you do many relatively easy tasks for many hours a day, 6 days a week?

"Hard" is not relative to pay. Work is. It is not "hard" work, but you MUST work hard.....

dont look at menial jobs as an easy way out or being filled with worthless people....they are difficult in their own way. Some one working public relations may have more patience and insight into human psychology than a Dr. of what ever you like.....

Things are not what you think. Your specialty in life is not that special. Others whom we think are mundane, may be worthy of merit. Look deeper buddy, there is more to us all....

Originally posted by nomnom

You see someone who is "willfully ignorant" and assume it's that they are not hardwired that way.

I think of it like a teacher who beats a kid who is "unwilling" to learn to read.

Some people simply aren't cut out for things, and it's pure genetic.

I definitely get that. There are those who can and those who cant relative to any task or skill. I can do some things and cant do other things. Even after dedicating lots of time and practice the best I can hope to do some things is barely adequate if at all while others breeze by and excel.

So what happens when someone who cannot insists on doing the thing he cannot do?

And when he realizes he cannot do that thing he simply stops doing anything?

Now we're getting into caste territory if we're really being honest about people who can and people who cannot by virtue of genetics.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

So what happens when someone who cannot insists on doing the thing he cannot do?

And when he realizes he cannot do that thing he simply stops doing anything?

Now we're getting into caste territory if we're really being honest about people who can and people who cannot by virtue of genetics.

This happens as well. That may be more along the environmental side than pure genetics. Fear of failure can be a result of a variety of factors combined.

I have succumb to this irrational thought process at points in my life.

The best we can do is encourage others to laugh at their (and our) mistakes, and realize one mistake does not a dumb person make. After all, we're only human. Perhaps that will one day be in the past.

Originally posted by Tardacus
If the postal service was privatized rates would double,employee pay and benefits would be cut by at least half, and the quality of service would drop.

The "Big 3" shipping services are comparable and FedEx/UPS employees don't suffer from lack of quality of service or pay/benefits. On another note, the USPS is technically a private enterprise with heavy governmental oversight (their service is dictated by Congress and law), but are not a department within the Government.

ETA: Okay, they are a department but not one. They are a quasi Federal agency that is required to sustain itself via profit (though they have a permanent life-line via Congress) but have all the benefits that come with a Federal agency. It is a quandary and odd really.

All that said, I would rather go with a carrier who doesn't charge me the extras to have the ability to track my packages and see signatures (regarding packages). Regular mail is becoming obsolete and Congress needs to let the reigns go to allow the USPS to become leaner.

Reduction of service is not a bad thing. I would propose regular mail service be reduced to Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays with package services remaining the same. None of that of course can happen because it is regulated by Congress and it is typically them, after being heavily lobbied by the Postal Workers Union, to not do it.

Operating as a semi-private enterprise is tough when you cannot change the way you do business without the approval of two-houses and a president. They also reap the benefits that other shipping companies do not: The USPS is exempt from many local regulations such as vehicle licensing, sales tax, property taxes (for their buildings), etc.

Another option is to break up the monopoly that is held by the USPS regarding regular mail and allow mail to traverse via any vendor (that will have to abide by smart regulations) to deliver it. Both Germany and the Netherlands have exited their monopolies of mail service and are reaping the benefits without a supposed fear of loss of quality.

Originally posted by Wildbob77
I do almost everything online.

Ninety percent of what I get in the mail is junk mail.

Why should I pay more for a service I don't really use?

You technically don't pay for service you don't use. By law, the USPS is funded through its sales and provided services; though they are authorized to draw from the treasury at sums of $3 billion with a $15 billion credit limit.

I do though however share your sentiment, First-Class mail service has seen a 17% drop since 2001 with an estimated 37% reduction through 2020. It is a dying medium and we should go back to having independent contractors deliver regular mail. It would create job-opportunities nationwide for entrepreneurs.

Originally posted by usernameconspiracy

Originally posted by Chrisfishenstein
reply to post by FyreByrd

 

So we are supposed to feel bad for the poor postal worker making $30 an hour to start? Good for them, right?? Yeah I don't care either until I have to pay almost an effing dollar to send a freaking birthday card......It wouldn't be that high if they didn't pay their employees so much money to SORT MAIL!!!

Their job is one of the easiest jobs on the planet, you could literally hire a trained monkey to do it, yet the pay is rediculous...

A whole dollar? Dang, you've got it rough! Without the postal service, how much would it cost to send that birthday card by UPS or FedEx, pretty much your only other options?

This attitude is EXACTLY why prices are the way they are......Not to mention they keep rising!!

Because people like you say ooooooooh a whole dollar......Whupdido......

But you are the first person to complain about gas prices, right?? YEP

Originally posted by littled16
I still know many, many people who do not have internet service (and not all of them are Seniors either) who depend on the USPS every day. For those who think that we could fare just fine without the USPS what do you suggest we replace it with? Many cannot afford computers and internet service to pay bills and stay in touch, and many small towns don't even have libraries much less publicly accessible computers to use- even if they knew how to use them.

It isn't so much replacing them, it is abolishing the Congressional monopoly on First-Class mail and access to mail-boxes that the USPS enjoys. Open up that avenue and you could potentially see more localized mail service carriers that fulfill routes via contracted services. Keep in place very smart and very directed regulations and expectation of services and it could be a great success while still providing the shrinking population of people who rely upon regular mail service.

Originally posted by FyreByrd
The Postal Service is the second largest employer in the United States after Walmart. But unlike Walmart, which gets away with paying so little that employees qualify for government assistance, the Postal Services is unionized, pays reasonable wages and benefits and receives no government subsidies.

The above is exactly what is destroying the USPS. The mailman doesn't deserve wages which rival some college graduates with professional level degrees, they don't deserve fully funded pensions, and the sure as hell don't deserve set-in-stone mandatory annual raises despite the state of the postal service or economy.

www.fiercegovernment.com...

I do blame Congress for much of this fiasco, however. Tom Davis and that rat faced idiot Henry Waxman were responsible for the idea of establishing the guaranteed pension fund and pre-funding the whole mess over a decade from 2007 to 2017. In addition, they barred the USPS from using savings accounts to pay down service debt, and established an approval list for the use of those savings. It's a bunch of bullcrap and represent just one more liberal bill George W. Bush should have known better than to ever sign.

(Oh, and even though my state probably gets the most out of the USPS rural service, I could care less if they go belly up. In fact, it might be good for local business, as more local bush pilots will start making mail runs if they were to go kaput.)

Originally posted by Bronynonymous
I understand where you are coming from, but the simple fact is that most things the postal service does, the internet does better. And that is crippling the system. I believe that as long as there is internet, the postal service will always have troubles making ends meet.

Many people don't have easy access to the internet nor do they own computers or iPads or have mobile phones. The postal services SERVES everyone (except maybe the homeless - though old fashion general delivery could serve) regardless of their net worth.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6

Originally posted by FyreByrd
The Postal Service is the second largest employer in the United States after Walmart. But unlike Walmart, which gets away with paying so little that employees qualify for government assistance, the Postal Services is unionized, pays reasonable wages and benefits and receives no government subsidies.

The above is exactly what is destroying the USPS. The mailman doesn't deserve wages which rival some college graduates with professional level degrees, they don't deserve fully funded pensions, and the sure as hell don't deserve set-in-stone mandatory annual raises despite the state of the postal service or economy.

www.fiercegovernment.com...

I do blame Congress for much of this fiasco, however. Tom Davis and that rat faced idiot Henry Waxman were responsible for the idea of establishing the guaranteed pension fund and pre-funding the whole mess over a decade from 2007 to 2017. In addition, they barred the USPS from using savings accounts to pay down service debt, and established an approval list for the use of those savings. It's a bunch of bullcrap and represent just one more liberal bill George W. Bush should have known better than to ever sign.

(Oh, and even though my state probably gets the most out of the USPS rural service, I could care less if they go belly up. In fact, it might be good for local business, as more local bush pilots will start making mail runs if they were to go kaput.)

edit on 17-2-2013 by burdman30ott6 because: (no reason given)

Again - one doesn't improve everyones bottom by tearing down others.

You aren't going to make any more money by advocating taking money away from others. The best bet to improve everyone's bottom line is to support LIVING WAGE jobs (union jobs) for everyone not work to destroy the few good jobs that are out there.

Work to unionize service jobs - food service in particular. Unionize office jobs, IT jobs, old fashion labor jobs, delivery jobs, sales jobs - all those supposedly white collar jobs which, in fact, are todays blue collar jobs.