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Anti-Masonry's Entitlement Position

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posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 09:26 PM
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Originally posted by nancyliedersdeaddog

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by nancyliedersdeaddog
When I read some of the links and comments posted on ats from these religious fanatics I feel so lucky I have nothing to do with the church. Btw I thought most mason secrets are just handshakes and rituals not the "secrets of the universe"


well there is that one secret about the meteor that was supposed to hit Russia, but we don't talk about that cuz it's secret.........um......oops!

You better watch out because like irishpackerfan68 said they are going to cut off your finger now since you told me a secret haha! Seriously though If I used sources like some of the people on this site (as proof) I could prove the titanic was really an inside job done by the illuminati and the reason the ship shank wasn't because of an iceberg.


are you serious about your last quote ?
if it wasnt shank by an iceberg .. did someone attacked it ?
and for what reasons
never though about that .. that even the titanic would have some conspiracy surrounding it
will do some research to hear different point of view and theories now




posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 09:59 PM
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Originally posted by Ben81

Originally posted by nancyliedersdeaddog

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by nancyliedersdeaddog
When I read some of the links and comments posted on ats from these religious fanatics I feel so lucky I have nothing to do with the church. Btw I thought most mason secrets are just handshakes and rituals not the "secrets of the universe"


well there is that one secret about the meteor that was supposed to hit Russia, but we don't talk about that cuz it's secret.........um......oops!

You better watch out because like irishpackerfan68 said they are going to cut off your finger now since you told me a secret haha! Seriously though If I used sources like some of the people on this site (as proof) I could prove the titanic was really an inside job done by the illuminati and the reason the ship shank wasn't because of an iceberg.



are you serious about your last quote ?
if it wasnt shank by an iceberg .. did someone attacked it ?
and for what reasons
never though about that .. that even the titanic would have some conspiracy surrounding it
will do some research to hear different point of view and theories now



Haha no I wasn't serious, I was trying to make a point that irshpackerfan68 needs to use better sources and that the internet is full of made up bs. The only reason I even brought up the titanic was because a few months ago I was bored and found a youtube video talking about titanic conspiracy theories. I have noticed that most big events have some kind of conspiracy and alternative theories attached to them especially recent events.



posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 10:57 PM
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Ive stated every source. It shouldnt matter if it is from the christian resources they are facts. The past 2 days i have posted newspaper articles books web links quotes history dating back to the 1800s about how your group is a bunch of boy hungry satanists. I want you people to give me your books and resources on how your not. O wait no thats a secret we cannot expose the secret. Like your trying to bust my facts by saying that only bible humping christians made that up are you all on drugs. FREEMASONRY HAS A HOLY BIBLE. SOME FREEMASONS SERVE IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH and make a complete mockery of christianity I hope everyone reading this can see the complete double standard you have placed on me when im simply stating facts backed by 200-300 years worth of references. Please for the love of God and not Lucifier please give me at least something that could completely throw away 200-300 years of being accused of satanism, hazing, murdering, sacrificng, rape, pedhophila, and please let be something factual other than "that article is BS" And this post you have. You are going to get trolled because no one respects freemasons because of the secrecy. The government might allow you to exist as an organzation but if it were the whole general population that voted on your existence you wouldnt be around. I hope other people come up with more facts and resources to prove how bastardous your soceity is. And I really hope people will wake up one day to realize we dont need your secret society and completely banish it. You have no point of being an organization and frankly you people disgust me im sorry i try to be open to everyone but you're going to deserve everything that gets thrown at you



posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 11:07 PM
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To Ksig


William James, 47, was shot while participating in an induction Monday night at the Southside Masonic Lodge (search), Suffolk County police said. He was pronounced dead at the scene.

Read more: www.foxnews.com...

You tried to twist what was in fine print he was shot at a LODGE. no where in the aritcle is the word club mentioned. Please when you try to decieve people be a little more smart about it. Dont call me a bible humper im not even christian. On that double standard freemasonry has bible. Look whos the bible humper now. Please learn basic reading skills and get back to me.
edit on 20-2-2013 by irishpackerfan68 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 11:25 PM
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To NetworkDude

Theres no way possible would i ever join or even ever think about joining freemasonry at any point of my life. I dont wanna know first hand whats its like to be in a satanist rituals. I'd rather let the people who left your fraternity speak out against you then rather risk my very spirtual existence and sanity to ever commit to such dark arks. Im the most open person ever I could never keep a secret even if my life depended on it. There is no such thing as a good secret. I failed to see how any of my resources could be invalid. Are you going to invalidate David Icke because you dont agree with him? Are you going discredit ever single accusation against Freemasonry because its simply not what we do. I have thousands of pages of information what society does in the eyes of former freemasons. But there is not a single of page of what your rituals are in the eyes of a current mason. Im sorry you have yet to prove even a little bit that you guys arent satanists. You dont even discredit you the theory you discredit the person. Im sure im going to see pages upon pages of how David Icke is a whackjob yet theres no way you can disprove the theory without exposing a secret



posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 11:30 PM
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The theories themselves have yet to be discredited you just discredited the people and mocked them leaving no room for debate. I want links articles papers and books to how freemasonry isnt satanic. In that specific sense. I have proven my case to why I think freemasonry is very satanic and very evil. You tell how its not. Unlike you people who cant even read the fact a man was shot in a LODGE and not a CLUB i will read through what you have to present and go from there sound good? wonderfull
edit on 20-2-2013 by irishpackerfan68 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 12:26 AM
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reply to post by irishpackerfan68
 

Well, your sources about us Freemasons are about as credible as you using StormFront or any white supremacist site to talk about black people.


It shouldnt matter if it is from the christian resources they are facts.

Nothing you posted was factual. The one news article was the only factual story, but you attempted to misconstrue the facts and I corrected your errors.


I want you people to give me your books and resources on how your not.

How do you prove a negative?


O wait no thats a secret we cannot expose the secret.

The fact that we don't do any of your accusations isn't secret.


Like your trying to bust my facts by saying that only bible humping christians made that up are you all on drugs.

I don't take drugs, legal or illegal. I get tested almost every month for drugs.


...make a complete mockery of christianity

What mockery? Like I said, the Order of the Temple is for Christians only and is an amazing ceremony to go through. There is nothing in any degree of Masonry that denigrates or mocks Christianity.

You've posted the same garbage, none of which goes back 300-years, but I'll overlook that exaggeration. Please show me in the ritual where any of this happens. Please show me facts from our ritual, not rhetoric.


You are going to get trolled because no one respects freemasons because of the secrecy.

What's wrong with secrecy? There's nothing wrong with secrecy.


The government might allow you to exist as an organzation but if it were the whole general population that voted on your existence you wouldnt be around.

The government doesn't allow, it has no choice, we have the protections and guarantee of the 1st Amendment (at least in America). Basic human rights are inalienable not dispensations of the government.


And I really hope people will wake up one day to realize we dont need your secret society and completely banish it.

Personally I could care less about your opinion of our organization nor do I need your permission to exist or congregate. I'd just like to point out how the only places that have banned Freemasonry is despotic, tyrannical, and oppressive governments.


You have no point of being an organization and frankly you people disgust me im sorry i try to be open to everyone but you're going to deserve everything that gets thrown at you

Fascists disgust me so I guess we're both disgusted by each other, but the difference is I won't give you or your ilk a second thought while your hatred will fester.



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 12:42 AM
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reply to post by irishpackerfan68
 

If you did your homework you'd realize that this wasn't an actual Masonic ritual, but a side club not sanctioned or approved by the Grand Lodge of NY. This wasn't an actual Masonic ceremony.


Carl Fitje, grand master of the New York State Freemasons (search), issued a statement Tuesday denying that guns play a role in any officially sanctioned lodge ceremonies.

"We don't use pistols," Steve Mayo, who described himself as a senior deacon of the lodge, told reporters Tuesday. "This is not a Masonic ceremony where we bring pistols."

From your own article.


You tried to twist what was in fine print he was shot at a LODGE.

Which doesn't prove that it was a Masonic ceremony. Quite often Masonic buildings are rented out to other groups, but regardless this was a side club that this Lodge had created and was not a part of the recognized and sanctioned ritual.


no where in the aritcle is the word club mentioned.

Well then you should do more research.


William James, a new arrival to the lodge, South Side 493 Masons of Patchogue, was killed Monday as he was being initiated into a social club connected to the Masons but not officially part of the organization. A 76-year-old member of the social club, the Fellow Craft Club, was supposed to fire a gun loaded with blanks, but reached into the wrong pocket, drew a licensed, loaded gun and shot Mr. James, 47, in the face.


reply to post by irishpackerfan68
 

Please show where in our ritual that Satan appears? Please show the ritual.

And if you're not a Christian then why do you believe in Satan?


I'd rather let the people who left your fraternity speak out against you then rather risk my very spirtual existence and sanity to ever commit to such dark arks.

You're using liars as sources. How funny.


Im the most open person ever I could never keep a secret even if my life depended on it.

Well don't tell that to your partner or lover. They probably want you to keep some things private.


There is no such thing as a good secret.

Incorrect.


Are you going to invalidate David Icke because you dont agree with him?

Just because he's famous doesn't make him right. I've shot holes in many of his theories.


Are you going discredit ever single accusation against Freemasonry because its simply not what we do.

So we should stand back and allow lies to be spread?


I have thousands of pages of information what society does in the eyes of former freemasons.

You haven't posted any of it. You listed Bill Schnoebelen and Jim Shaw, both liars. Jim Shaw was never a 33rd and if you believe Bill you deserve to be misled. He's like the pied piper for anti-Masons.


Im sorry you have yet to prove even a little bit that you guys arent satanists.

The burden of proof lies with the accuser and you have only posted rhetoric and fabrication. Please show us where in our ritual where Satanic things occur. I mean, show us the ritual, the ceremony, and what degree it all happens in.


Im sure im going to see pages upon pages of how David Icke is a whackjob yet theres no way you can disprove the theory without exposing a secret

The guy is a loon. Reptilians? Really?
edit on 21-2-2013 by KSigMason because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 05:24 AM
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reply to post by irishpackerfan68
 


You want me to prove that masonry isn't satanic, whatever else you claim it is? No. How about you prove to me you aren't a chicken lover. I don't believe you even pluck them, you just take them feathers and all. now prove to me that isn't true. I'll wait here.



If you are going to go through life taking other peoples word for things, you might want to find out a tiny bit about who it is you are listening to. I think David Icke has some very good points about some things, but then again, not being a reptilian, I find it hard to believe there are such things about. Do you believe in shapeshifting reptilians?

I heard all the claims against masonry long ago. the same ones you are posting here. I decided to find out for myself because I fell I was at the very least, smart enough not to fall for people with a very obvious agenda. I went in looking for all the satanic stuff, haven't found any yet. Everyone I have met is of very high character, super nice and just good people all around. They are the kind of people I like to associate with. They all love God and have no desire to be concerned with Lucifer, Baal, Balphomet, Satan, mean Uncle Bob, or anyone else you think masonry worships.

At the end of the day, you can believe whomever you want. A bunch of nut jobs who have a frail grip on reality, or some regular guys who just happen to be masons. Good luck next season.



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 07:51 AM
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edit on 21-2-2013 by OnTheLevel213 because: Double post



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 07:51 AM
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Originally posted by guanyu
Well it is clear to anyone who checks back a couple posts that this is a deceptive quote, misconstruing my point, by combining sentences and clauses that were unrelated to each other.


They're not combined at all. They're separated by an ellipsis.


Is insider trading protected by the 1st Amendment?


No, but insider trading and peaceable assembly are separate issues, and even those convicted of the latter retain their right to the former. Not that there are any credible accusations of such involving Freemasonry, anyway.


Also just the "free association" of people exercising their 1st amendment rights to speak freely, right?


The First Amendment places no limits on the right to peaceable assembly.


Read the text of the Bill of Rights and tell me with a straight face that was meant to protect organizations like Freemasonry.


Okay. The rights enumerated by the Bill of Rights absolutely were meant to protect private citizens, and absolutely apply to Freemasons.


Is it or is it not an organization built on the foundation of mystery religions from the Bronze Age?


Given that "Bronze Age mystery religions" is a nonsense phrase uttered by those ignorant of the history of religion, I'm going to say no, by default.


Is it or is it not an accountable organization with complete transparency?


Given that every lodge, Grand Lodge, local appendant body, and regional/national appendant body is required as a condition of the tax code to submit all its financial transactions to the IRS, and that these records are publicly available to anyone who asks, I'm going to say yes.


It's not about personal experiences and opinions.


They seem to be the entirety of your accusation, though.


it's wrong, and should go.


Luckily for us (and the next target at which people like you would aim their personal insecurities and paranoia were we gone, and the next, and the next...), the whole of Western democracy is built on the right of organizations like ours to exist.
edit on 21-2-2013 by OnTheLevel213 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 10:27 AM
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reply to post by irishpackerfan68
 


Here is a site that can easily explain all the silly lies you want desperately to believe. Now, this site is biased as it is written by an actual Freemason who to my knowledge is not a shape shifting reptilian. But since non masons don't seem to even worry about us, they don't have sites to explain things. We have to rely on this first hand information.

I believe that almost every silly lie you can dig up is covered on that one site. Now being that you aren't ambitious enough to try to find sources that contradict your theories, I don't expect you to actually read the site I linked, but I have provided it just the same.

And remember, ignorance is bliss.

Be blissful.



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 11:48 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 

Don't let Ed fool you, he's a shape-shifter.
He does operate a great site.



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by OnTheLevel213
 

I'm sure Masonic judges decided that Masonry is totally above board and protected. Well, one can only hope the law is sensibly changed in due time.

I don't really feel the need to interfere with your back-slapping any longer.

I'll just leave you with a final thought.

Chapter 38 of the Tao Te Ching. He who has ears, let him hear.

Ritual

Well established hierarchies are not easily uprooted;
Closely held beliefs are not easily released;
So ritual enthralls generation after generation.

Harmony does not care for harmony, and so is naturally attained;
But ritual is intent upon harmony, and so can not attain it.

Harmony neither acts nor reasons;
Love acts, but without reason;
Justice acts to serve reason;
But ritual acts to enforce reason.

When the Way is lost, there remains harmony;
When harmony is lost, there remains love;
When love is lost, there remains justice;
But when justice is lost, there remains ritual.

Ritual is the end of compassion and honesty,
The beginning of confusion;
Belief is a colourful hope or fear,
The beginning of folly.

The sage goes by harmony, not by hope;
He dwells in the fruit, not the flower;
He accepts substance, and ignores abstraction.

Good luck on your journey to wisdom.



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by guanyu
 


I believe your understanding of what masonry is and how it works is mistaken. I would be happy to discuss it with you, but I understand if you would rather not.



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by guanyu
I'm sure Masonic judges decided that Masonry is totally above board and protected.


If you'd like to pursue this line of thought, cite a case, and give lodge names and numbers for the justices.


Well, one can only hope the law is sensibly changed in due time.


Just as I thought: you're not a "staunch defender of the First Amendment" unless it's used in a way you agree with. In other words, the type of person that makes the First Amendment necessary.


I'll just leave you with a final thought.


I see your Tao Te Ching and raise you Derek Lin, one of the foremost authorities thereon:


Rituals are a critical test for every cultivator of spirituality. Those who consider themselves knowledgeable in the Tao, and yet look down on rituals - they don't really know much about the Tao at all.


Source


Good luck on your journey to wisdom.


The same to you.



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by guanyu
 

What Masonic judges? Plus, why would judges be looking at Freemasonry? I'm not familiar with any lawsuit currently.


Well, one can only hope the law is sensibly changed in due time.

What a law that says men cannot meet together? Or just us Freemasons? Seems like a violation of my rights.

Just like secrets, everyone has rituals.



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by guanyu
 

So that would mean you would pretty much want to get rid of college fraternities/sororities, secret societies at colleges, eastern star, and Opus Dei? Man you just want to crap all over the first amendment and I can't get over you calling yourself a staunch defender of the 1st Amendment! I don't understand what your problem is with masons? I'm pretty sure the majority of Masons are normal middle class people who are living comfortable.
edit on 21-2-2013 by nancyliedersdeaddog because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by nancyliedersdeaddog
 

I would sleep better knowing there were no fraternities/sororities, opus dei, etc.

I never stated I was a staunch defender of the 1st Amendment. That was, and remains, a misunderstanding of my grammar. Obviously, it goes without saying that I support the 1st Amendment, but we differ on our interpretations, and furthermore it is imperative that we be clear about who exactly says what and when.

It was never my intention to denigrate anybody, though things got a little hot under the collar at times I'm trying to conduct myself with absolute civility.

I have a problem with Freemasonry (and similar initiatory orders and secret societies) because it is an avenue for nepotism. It has been and remains capable of being a detriment to the American cause that every man is equal and deserves equal opportunity for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

I don't mean to be curt, or offensive, but I find the entire thing reprehensible and an affront to all decent sensibilities of what is right and good about conduct between men.

It is a fact, as uncomfortable of a fact as it is, that Freemasonry is a Bronze Age power structure. I'll explain what I mean. A power structure is a hierarchy, no one can deny that Freemasonry is a hierarchy. It is Bronze Age because that is when this form of hierarchy was developed. Initiatory fraternal orders have their origin in ancient Greco-Babylonian-Egyptian-African religions and Freemasonry has retained this basic structure. This Bronze Age hierarchy can still be seen as a full social force in West Africa in the Poro society. Do you believe with sincerity that the Poro is a benefit to a West African's life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness?

There is no denying that Freemasonry, and similar initiatory fraternal orders, are the last vestiges of a social structure invented 2,500 years or more in humanity's past. This illustrates Lao Zi's premise that ritual stagnates consciousness. By adhering strictly to any historic doctrine, the natural development of human collective consciousness is stunted. It reverts consciousness to a primitive state, of older and lower conscious development, as demanded by the ritual. It is clinging to past concepts, regardless of any pretense of progressiveness. It is inimical to reform and self-criticism.

I know that you don't want to be told over and over again by someone that, in his opinion, you are part of something in its very nature sinister, and that I think your organization should be abolished. Certainly you've probably never done anything wrong there and are decent people. It just doesn't change the fact that it is what it is.

Obviously we will never see eye to eye on these issues, at least not any time soon. I know this post is not going to result in "Eureka!" moments for you all. I just hope you meditate with sincerity on the issues I have presented.

I felt compelled to interject if only because I do not see these anti-Mason criticisms as entitled, as was implicit by the thread title. I don't believe one can be entitled to the truth, or what is right.

I meant it genuinely when I said I wish you all the best on your path towards wisdom. I still do.
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posted on Feb, 21 2013 @ 07:30 PM
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reply to post by guanyu
 

First I would like to make it clear i'm not a mason or a part of any secret society and I was just quoting you saying that you where a staunch defender of the 1st Amendment. Everyone plays favorites but If masons goal is to get rich then they are doing something wrong and I'm sure your guilty of doing business with people close to you when you get a chance. I don't see how masons stop anyone from having the opportunity for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, so can explain that comment? You do know anyone can join the mason's and it's not like every member has to be a ceo, lawyer, or millionaire. I would have to do more research on Laozi and the Poro society before I could comment.





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