Christians... Let me ask?

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posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 11:40 AM
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Since this is Valentines day... I have a question for the Christians on our forum pertaining to love

Why do you have such a problem with the possibility that ALL souls will be saved from Death?

IF God is love, would he not want all his children to return to him?

And if this is the case... Why wouldn't you hold that same value?

Happy Valentines day all





posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon
Since this is Valentines day... I have a question for the Christians on our forum pertaining to love

Why do you have such a problem with the possibility that ALL souls will be saved from Death?

IF God is love, would he not want all his children to return to him?

And if this is the case... Why wouldn't you hold that same value?

Happy Valentines day all




I think the answer you will get is that the Christian god wants all people to be saved yet it is the people who deny the god. Which is funny because those same Christians also talk about how the heaven thing is an "opt-in" concept so... a bit of a contradiction.

Is it an opt-out or an opt-in?



posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 11:44 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


To get the best answer, go read a bible.



posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 11:45 AM
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I think all souls will return to the Lord.

Earthly rules will no longer matter on his return.

Let the Flaming begin...



posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon

IF God is love, would he not want all his children to return to him?



God is always 'present' but man seeks in time.



posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 11:49 AM
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Probably because it wasn't what they were raised to believe since birth. When people are taught something from birth it is hard to change their mind whether it makes sense or not.

I think a loving god would never design us in such a way that there would be a need to send anything to eternal torment (therefore, I don't believe that a loving god would create an evil devil knowing he would end up in hell forever that tries to bring others down with him).

Some may say "What about free-will?". Well, our will is already restricted in these human bodies, I think it wouldn't hurt for a ALL-LOVING GOD to restrict the free-will leading to ETERNAL TORTURE...



posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 11:49 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 
My answer would be that with God all things are possible and that we do not have all of the answers. As we can assume that the Bible has been altered and tampered with by men (a big no-no, by the way) we will never really know God's true plan for us until we meet him face to face. On a more personal note I truly hope that all of us will return to God. It may be unrealistic of me but I believe there is something good in all of us, even those who on the surface appear to be amongst the most wretched and evil.



posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 11:50 AM
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Wouldn't John 3:16 give the answer to your question? It states the fact that God loves the world, what He did to show that love, and the stipulation necessary to obtain eternal life and avoid perishing. Seems pretty straightforward.



posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by arpgme
Probably because it wasn't what they were raised to believe since birth. When people are taught something from birth it is hard to change their mind whether it makes sense or not.

I think a loving god would never design us in such a way that there would be a need to send anything to eternal torment (therefore, I don't believe that a loving god would create an evil devil knowing he would end up in hell forever that tries to bring others down with him).

Some may say "What about free-will?". Well, our will is already restricted in these human bodies, I think it wouldn't hurt for a ALL-LOVING GOD to restrict the free-will leading to ETERNAL TORTURE...


Wouldn't it be even more cruel for a loving god to force people into an eternity spent with him if that is in fact the last thing that they would want? And the last place they would want to be?



posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by micmerci

Originally posted by arpgme
Probably because it wasn't what they were raised to believe since birth. When people are taught something from birth it is hard to change their mind whether it makes sense or not.

I think a loving god would never design us in such a way that there would be a need to send anything to eternal torment (therefore, I don't believe that a loving god would create an evil devil knowing he would end up in hell forever that tries to bring others down with him).

Some may say "What about free-will?". Well, our will is already restricted in these human bodies, I think it wouldn't hurt for a ALL-LOVING GOD to restrict the free-will leading to ETERNAL TORTURE...


Wouldn't it be even more cruel for a loving god to force people into an eternity spent with him if that is in fact the last thing that they would want? And the last place they would want to be?


But, according to the Christian church, there are no alternatives to their god other than damnation and eternal suffering. It's not like they offer "Pagan Land" for people who choose to go sans-god.



posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 12:30 PM
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reply to post by Cuervo
 

To say that seems to say that the word of the church supersedes the word of God. Other religions have their own exclusivity clause as well. As far as I know, Buddhists are the only all-inclusive, choose your path religion. Why would someone want to be included in the Christian religion without wanting to submit to it's rules? It doesn't make sense to me.



posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by micmerci
reply to post by Cuervo
 

To say that seems to say that the word of the church supersedes the word of God. Other religions have their own exclusivity clause as well. As far as I know, Buddhists are the only all-inclusive, choose your path religion. Why would someone want to be included in the Christian religion without wanting to submit to it's rules? It doesn't make sense to me.


The majority of religious paths are "all-inclusive". They just don't dominate the religious landscape because it's hard to monetize a religion without fear.

The question in the OP was Christian-specific which is why I answered as if they were the authority.



posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by micmerci
reply to post by Cuervo
 

To say that seems to say that the word of the church supersedes the word of God. Other religions have their own exclusivity clause as well. As far as I know, Buddhists are the only all-inclusive, choose your path religion. Why would someone want to be included in the Christian religion without wanting to submit to it's rules? It doesn't make sense to me.


The majority of religious paths are "all-inclusive". They just don't dominate the religious landscape because it's hard to monetize a religion without fear.

The question in the OP was Christian-specific which is why I answered as if they were the authority.


I disagree- Islam isn't, nor is Taoism,Hindu, Judaism.. I could go on.

I understand why you answered as you did but my question remains, wouldn't it be putting the word of a church over the word of God? My first reply indicated what Jesus quoted as the methodology to obtain eternal life. It sounds cut and dry. If any church, including christian ones deter from that message, they are simply wrong. Wouldn't you agree?



posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by micmerci

Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by micmerci
reply to post by Cuervo
 

To say that seems to say that the word of the church supersedes the word of God. Other religions have their own exclusivity clause as well. As far as I know, Buddhists are the only all-inclusive, choose your path religion. Why would someone want to be included in the Christian religion without wanting to submit to it's rules? It doesn't make sense to me.


The majority of religious paths are "all-inclusive". They just don't dominate the religious landscape because it's hard to monetize a religion without fear.

The question in the OP was Christian-specific which is why I answered as if they were the authority.


I disagree- Islam isn't, nor is Taoism,Hindu, Judaism.. I could go on.

I understand why you answered as you did but my question remains, wouldn't it be putting the word of a church over the word of God? My first reply indicated what Jesus quoted as the methodology to obtain eternal life. It sounds cut and dry. If any church, including christian ones deter from that message, they are simply wrong. Wouldn't you agree?


I don't pretend to understand the mind of the Christian gods but what I do understand is the mind of any power and profit-driven religious institution. If it were all-inclusive, there would be no leverage for power to hold sway over the peons who follow that path.

All of the paths you listed are that way except for Taoism (which is all-inclusive, by the way). You also listed all mainstream power-religions. You listed five out of over 4,300 faiths. Most of those paths have a structure where your afterlife fate is determined by your morality or actions and is the same for believers or non-believers. This means you cannot really market your gods to make money... which is why the major religions do that.



posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 01:10 PM
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www.columbiaseminary.edu...reply to post by Cuervo
 


A link you may find interesting to read. I am in agreement with you that Christianity is exclusive. I hope I didn't come across differently. But I am of the opinion that most religions are as well.



posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
Why do you have such a problem with the possibility that ALL souls will be saved from Death?

IF God is love, would he not want all his children to return to him?

I don't personally have a problem with universal salvation -- it's one of the reasons that I switched to Roman Catholicism, which teaches that only those who know Christ is their salvation and reject him are truly condemned.

Pope John Paul II's "favourite theologian" wrote a book called "Dare We Hope That All Men Be Saved?", which examined the concept from the standpoint not that God just forgives everyone, but that everyone repents. And, of course, there is the more recent Love Wins, by Rob Bell, which takes a somewhat different track to the same destination.

That said, I think that it's a dangerous thing to teach, so I generally do not, because the implication is that a) there is no real consequence for your actions and b) if it's wrong, you may be directly leading people to their destruction by promoting it, as they conclude that so long as they "live a decent life", they'll stay out of hell.

The former is a result of my "Catholic guilt" and the latter is a result of my "Protestant fear", lol.



posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 07:17 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


There is no hell in Christ and his salvation is of an unconditional all-inclusive nature, so while people are rewarded according to what they've done (which is fair) the hope in Christ is definitely that no one will be lost in the fullness of time and history, which suggests that the possibility of reincarnation according to a karmic circle (which Christ completes) may be valid, unless all the learning is done in one shot when we meet our maker..



posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 07:18 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 

I thought you were a Christian?




posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 09:50 PM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 


No my friend...

I most definately believe in Jesus... His words are spiritual gold... But many things he said i see very differently then those of the Christian world.

Apparently i would be considered a heretic if i claimed that title...

And since i disagree with organized religion in general... Why not kill two birds with one stone?

I need no label for my beliefs... They are what they are... And they come from a mash of a few different sources which includes personal experiences

But mainly the words of Jesus

edit on 14-2-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 10:21 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


Some people choose "death" rather than to accept God's Love.

The human spirit is immortal and does not die in the way we see it. It can only die to grace.





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