so *THIS* is why the pope resigns! [from the new york times!]

Originally posted by steppenwolf86

Originally posted by doobydoll
As soon as I heard he was resigning, I suspected there was something else at the root of it and that we weren't getting the whole story. I knew it was only a matter hours before someone on ATS digs out the truth

Personally, I don't know what all the fuss is about over all this pope drama. He's just a bloke. And soon, yet another 200yo old fart will replace him and life goes on. I don't understand why the pope is hailed as some sort of descended Archangel everywhere he goes, - and what's worse is that he revels in it, so he obviously believes he deserves such adulation.

I believe in God. I believe God is inside us all and part of us, and is everywhere, and that is what I pray with, and to. I don't need no man-made churches to do it.

I love these Catholic bashing threads. Where do you get the idea that we worship the man? And if he loved the attention as much as you say, why would he resign? The Pope, as we believe is God's spokesman on earth. He draws crowds not from his own charisma but due to the message. We worship God, not the Pope. It is what he represents to us that makes him important, not who he is. John Paul II was credited with ending communism but he gave credit to God and the people themselves.

Time and time again people make up things and claim all catholics think that way, from pope worship to worshiping the Virgin Mary. The church has some big problems, why make things up when you can criticise based on facts? Nevertheless, a Catholic I will remain.

edit on 14-2-2013 by steppenwolf86 because: (no reason given)

Who says he is a spokesman for God? You? Or another human?

When did God appoint him as His spokesman?

I get the impression he loves the attention the way he lords it about in his scrote-mobile waving at his adoring fans. As for him resigning as I said before, the real reason will emerge soon enough. It's not because he's old because he was already ancient when he took the job. There's some other reason.

reply to post by doobydoll


You realize the pope has the pope mobile because the last one was nearly killed, right? As for the guy before you, one could question whether Jesus even anticipated the gospels being written. He put peter in place as his representative, so how is the current pope elevated to Jesus's level if it is the continuation of the idea that Jesus set up?
The posts in this thread are so pathetic, you claim to know a man's mindset based on how he waves to a crowd? You claim that the Pope is viewed as divine when any Catholic will tell you how wrong that is... You people are really reaching. The common interpretation is that the Pope is God's representative on earth. He is not divine, and as for the chair of infallibility, how often is that even used? Mindless Catholic bashing.

reply to post by steppenwolf86


I am not addressing the mindset of one man. I am speaking of the doctrine of the Church. I didn't write it. The church did. I was raised Catholic, so no bashing here either. But the catechism clearly states the church's stance on this issue as well as many others.

ETA: Also the catechism is not open to interpretation, it is to be accepted as the literal, infallible word of God. Anyone who does not take this position is ANATHEMA. This directly from church doctrine as well. In black and white.

Originally posted by steppenwolf86

Originally posted by doobydoll
As soon as I heard he was resigning, I suspected there was something else at the root of it and that we weren't getting the whole story. I knew it was only a matter hours before someone on ATS digs out the truth

Personally, I don't know what all the fuss is about over all this pope drama. He's just a bloke. And soon, yet another 200yo old fart will replace him and life goes on. I don't understand why the pope is hailed as some sort of descended Archangel everywhere he goes, - and what's worse is that he revels in it, so he obviously believes he deserves such adulation.

I believe in God. I believe God is inside us all and part of us, and is everywhere, and that is what I pray with, and to. I don't need no man-made churches to do it.

I love these Catholic bashing threads. Where do you get the idea that we worship the man? And if he loved the attention as much as you say, why would he resign? The Pope, as we believe is God's spokesman on earth. He draws crowds not from his own charisma but due to the message. We worship God, not the Pope. It is what he represents to us that makes him important, not who he is. John Paul II was credited with ending communism but he gave credit to God and the people themselves.

Time and time again people make up things and claim all catholics think that way, from pope worship to worshiping the Virgin Mary. The church has some big problems, why make things up when you can criticise based on facts? Nevertheless, a Catholic I will remain.

edit on 14-2-2013 by steppenwolf86 because: (no reason given)

Someone with calibre, and pragmatism, unlike to whom you are replying, and no harm to he/she, is somewhat confused as to whether the Pope is a bloke, or that God is inside of him/us/them and the added assumption that the Pope revels in being a pop idol, (that being the case WTF is he resigning for?) I think being a 200year old fart, is so much better than being a ten year old twat.

reply to post by micmerci


You are arguing over the interpretation of one word. A substitute is not always equal. Once again, if the bishop of Rome is a continuation of the tradition that began with Jesus appointing Peter, how do you figure that the Pope is on equal footing with the Son of God.

Originally posted by steppenwolf86
reply to post by micmerci

 

You are arguing over the interpretation of one word. A substitute is not always equal. Once again, if the bishop of Rome is a continuation of the tradition that began with Jesus appointing Peter, how do you figure that the Pope is on equal footing with the Son of God.

The church's position is clear- the Pope represents Christ on earth. Likewise, the Eucharist is literally transubstantiated to the actual body and blood of Christ. Again I did not write this doctrine. And again if you take a different view, you are anathema.

Originally posted by steppenwolf86
reply to post by doobydoll

 

You realize the pope has the pope mobile because the last one was nearly killed, right? As for the guy before you, one could question whether Jesus even anticipated the gospels being written. He put peter in place as his representative, so how is the current pope elevated to Jesus's level if it is the continuation of the idea that Jesus set up?
The posts in this thread are so pathetic, you claim to know a man's mindset based on how he waves to a crowd? You claim that the Pope is viewed as divine when any Catholic will tell you how wrong that is... You people are really reaching. The common interpretation is that the Pope is God's representative on earth. He is not divine, and as for the chair of infallibility, how often is that even used? Mindless Catholic bashing.

Calm down, why so agressive?

I don't claim to know his mindset, I said he gives the impression he loves the attention. I don't see him shying away from it.

I do think he's revered like a god, I see people bowing and scraping before him, and kissing his hands/feet/arse, but I don't understand it. He's just an old bloke who loves God.

And I very much doubt God appointed him or any of the popes as His spokesman.

A real spokesman for God wouldn't need a pope-mobile because God would protect him, wouldn't He?

reply to post by smurfy

... is so much better than being a ten year old twat.

Nice reply. Mature.

Originally posted by micmerci

Originally posted by steppenwolf86
reply to post by micmerci

 

You are arguing over the interpretation of one word. A substitute is not always equal. Once again, if the bishop of Rome is a continuation of the tradition that began with Jesus appointing Peter, how do you figure that the Pope is on equal footing with the Son of God.

The church's position is clear- the Pope represents Christ on earth. Likewise, the Eucharist is literally transubstantiated to the actual body and blood of Christ. Again I did not write this doctrine. And again ifu you take a different view, you are anathema.

edit on 14-2-2013 by micmerci because: spelling error

Key word is represents. And as for the Eucharist that is a different argument, and it is directly from the gospels, so what do you have against it?

Originally posted by SproutKY

Originally posted by DarknStormy
It wouldn't surprise me one bit if the next pope is the last.. This religious entity is about done..

There are definitely prophecies about it.
Do you think it's along the lines of "end of the world" or just "end of the Catholic Church"?

End of the Catholic church??

You are joking right??

Originally posted by micmerci

Originally posted by steppenwolf86
reply to post by micmerci

 

You are arguing over the interpretation of one word. A substitute is not always equal. Once again, if the bishop of Rome is a continuation of the tradition that began with Jesus appointing Peter, how do you figure that the Pope is on equal footing with the Son of God.

The church's position is clear- the Pope represents Christ on earth. Likewise, the Eucharist is literally transubstantiated to the actual body and blood of Christ. Again I did not write this doctrine. And again if you take a different view, you are anathema.

edit on 14-2-2013 by micmerci because: spelling error

That's not quite right, doctrine is an evolving thing like anything else, what the church accepts, is the consensus of what everyone involved in the making of the scriptures came to. The thing is, if you believe in God, and Jesus as the son of God, all things come from that including what Jesus said to the disciples, Moses on the mountain, what the disciples wrote, all that is used to make a consensus. You are free to look for the meaning in doctrine.
This might help as a better explanation than mine,

www.catholic.com...

Originally posted by smurfy

Originally posted by micmerci

Originally posted by steppenwolf86
reply to post by micmerci

 

You are arguing over the interpretation of one word. A substitute is not always equal. Once again, if the bishop of Rome is a continuation of the tradition that began with Jesus appointing Peter, how do you figure that the Pope is on equal footing with the Son of God.

The church's position is clear- the Pope represents Christ on earth. Likewise, the Eucharist is literally transubstantiated to the actual body and blood of Christ. Again I did not write this doctrine. And again if you take a different view, you are anathema.

edit on 14-2-2013 by micmerci because: spelling error

That's not quite right, doctrine is an evolving thing like anything else, what the church accepts, is the consensus of what everyone involved in the making of the scriptures came to. The thing is, if you believe in God, and Jesus as the son of God, all things come from that including what Jesus said to the disciples, Moses on the mountain, what the disciples wrote, all that is used to make a consensus. You are free to look for the meaning in doctrine.
This might help as a better explanation than mine,

www.catholic.com...

Any interpretation we arrive at must not contradict what has already been defined as Catholic truth. That is why God gave the Church the power of defining things-to keep us from going wrong. We must be willing to submit our interpretations to the final judgment of the magisterium

This is from the source you provided. The position of the church is clear and they are serious. Do not go against the official interpretation of the magisterium. To everyday people like you and I, this probably doesn't mean much but to people involved in the clergy, it's strict adherence or the threat of anathema and excommunication.

Originally posted by micmerci

Originally posted by smurfy

Originally posted by micmerci

Originally posted by steppenwolf86
reply to post by micmerci

 

You are arguing over the interpretation of one word. A substitute is not always equal. Once again, if the bishop of Rome is a continuation of the tradition that began with Jesus appointing Peter, how do you figure that the Pope is on equal footing with the Son of God.

The church's position is clear- the Pope represents Christ on earth. Likewise, the Eucharist is literally transubstantiated to the actual body and blood of Christ. Again I did not write this doctrine. And again if you take a different view, you are anathema.

edit on 14-2-2013 by micmerci because: spelling error

That's not quite right, doctrine is an evolving thing like anything else, what the church accepts, is the consensus of what everyone involved in the making of the scriptures came to. The thing is, if you believe in God, and Jesus as the son of God, all things come from that including what Jesus said to the disciples, Moses on the mountain, what the disciples wrote, all that is used to make a consensus. You are free to look for the meaning in doctrine.
This might help as a better explanation than mine,

www.catholic.com...

Any interpretation we arrive at must not contradict what has already been defined as Catholic truth. That is why God gave the Church the power of defining things-to keep us from going wrong. We must be willing to submit our interpretations to the final judgment of the magisterium

This is from the source you provided. The position of the church is clear and they are serious. Do not go against the official interpretation of the magisterium. To everyday people like you and I, this probably doesn't mean much but to people involved in the clergy, it's strict adherence or the threat of anathema and excommunication.

That's pretty clear isn't it, you have an idea, presumably backed up with some savvy, they either agree or disagree. But don't confuse the church doctrine with church disciplines. like for instance, celibate priests, a whole big issue on its own, where the Catholic church has both celibate and married priests, celibacy is not a doctrine, and my personal view is that married priests is a given, and should be what it is, a natural event. I don't think however it is a root solution to the problem of sexual abuse by the clergy who are not married, that is something else. Excommunication is not a threat, it is a by product of an event, in short a penalty and as far as I know there is always a way back.That's a far cry from say, Bradley Manning a military whistleblower, who may or may not have done something good initially, (all according to perspective, yours/mine/them) but then was caught up in the storm and boasted about it, hence his exposure, he is still languishing in jail, what three years on? while someone is supposed to decide what to with him, same as Julian Assange really.

Originally posted by steppenwolf86

Originally posted by doobydoll
As soon as I heard he was resigning, I suspected there was something else at the root of it and that we weren't getting the whole story. I knew it was only a matter hours before someone on ATS digs out the truth

Personally, I don't know what all the fuss is about over all this pope drama. He's just a bloke. And soon, yet another 200yo old fart will replace him and life goes on. I don't understand why the pope is hailed as some sort of descended Archangel everywhere he goes, - and what's worse is that he revels in it, so he obviously believes he deserves such adulation.

I believe in God. I believe God is inside us all and part of us, and is everywhere, and that is what I pray with, and to. I don't need no man-made churches to do it.

I love these Catholic bashing threads. Where do you get the idea that we worship the man? And if he loved the attention as much as you say, why would he resign? The Pope, as we believe is God's spokesman on earth. He draws crowds not from his own charisma but due to the message. We worship God, not the Pope. It is what he represents to us that makes him important, not who he is. John Paul II was credited with ending communism but he gave credit to God and the people themselves.

Time and time again people make up things and claim all catholics think that way, from pope worship to worshiping the Virgin Mary. The church has some big problems, why make things up when you can criticise based on facts? Nevertheless, a Catholic I will remain.

edit on 14-2-2013 by steppenwolf86 because: (no reason given)

Cardinal Sarto, who became Pope Pius X, said this: The Pope represents Jesus Christ Himself.

In 1512 Christopher Marcellus said this to Pope Julius II: Take care that we lose not that salvation, that life and breath which thou hast given us, for thou art our shepherd, thou art our physician, thou art our governor, thou art our husbandman, thou art finally another God on earth

Just recently, in 2004, Bishop Patrick Dunn of Auckland said this: It seems that Pope John Paul II now presides over the universal Church from his place upon Christ's cross.

The Gloss of Extravagantes of Pope John XXII says this: But to believe that our Lord God the Pope the establisher of said decretal, and of this, could not decree, as he did decree, should be accounted heretical

The Catholic Church said that The Pope supersedes God on Earth. Give me a break mate it's all a scam, you've all been had!

This video by "Santos Banacci" tells the importance of the pope and the catholic church. Even though the ones of us that are not catholic may feel the wrath of all of this if their prophecies are correct. Santos Banacci talks about we live in a system and You own nothing, you just have the right to use it and the devil owns our courts and government and it all has to do with the Catholic Church.

I do not claim to be a BIG religeous person but the evidence and the scriptures and the Malachy Phophecies sent chills down my spine.

Revelation 13: it talks about a political and religious figure to come on the scene prior to the coming of Jesus Christ. One of those figures is a religious figure. In verse 13 it says of this individual, "He performs great signs so that he even makes fire come down from heaven and the earth in the sight of men."

Saint Malachy prophecy – A Saint who predicted all the next 112 Popes with descriptions about them, and said that after 112th pope arrives and serves, is when the Anti-Christ also comes into the picture. The prophecy says, that Benedict (who is resigning) is number 111, which means the next Pope will be 112.

I have yet to find anything that says the pope is the Anti-Christ but according to the Malachy phophecy (note) that the Anti-Christ comes into the picture 112th Pope arrives and serves.

If he is the representative on Earth for 'G*D', and is here as a means of being 'the middle man', than why is it not G*D that chooses who stands? A Catholic Rep who is voted by Catholics that are Human that are from Earth. Does that not put it all into a fishy start from the get go? I didn't buy my Buick because Buick said it was a good car. So therefor, why could not they elect a Pope based on a survey of all People, religions, backgrounds? Call him the 'Rep of the People'? As far as I'm concerned, a Rep of G*D would just randomly show up out of nowhere, and be 'not quite human' somehow, and noticeably something we should pay more attention to.

Could someone possibly explain to me the concept of the 'end of the Roman Catholic church'????

I've seen this notion posted several times in this thread. Does anyone actually think / believe that the Roman Catholic church will, as an entity, suddenly just throw up their collective hands and say..."Sorry everyone, just kidding, we've decided we're just not gonna' do this, the whole Catholic church thing, anymore" (?????) C'mon! Really???

Thirty million dollars is a drop in the ocean to the church! How will they pay? Well, chances are they won't, but even if they did it wouldn't make even one iota of difference to their bank accounts. But, just what if they couldn't pay, what then? Does anyone think someone is going to foreclose on the church? That they will somehow go through some kind of papal bankruptcy??? That we will be seeing the Pope-mobile up on the auction block shortly forthwith???

I mean really; does anyone actually think the Catholic chruch is just going to fold up its tent, to cease to exist and leave literally billions of followers standing there in the void going "Huh?" That Christianity is somehow going to just vaporize into the ether overnight?

I'm not a big religious guy at all (and certainly not a Catholic), but even I am sitting here asking myself...'no one could actually believe something like this...could they???"

WOW!!

Perhaps he found out what was really going on behind the scenes and was disgusted and resigned. Don't throw him to the wolves yet.

Here we go... watch before your very eyes as this promising intellectual discussion on the subject of Popeness degenerates into an unapologetic p#ssing contest of who's religion is the best. Who didn't see that coming? God himself is shaking his head in frustration at you fools.



News-flash to all spiritual neanderthals: the same god made you all, and that very same god is beyond fed up with all of your sh#t - equally! He doesn't play favorites... because we're all One. - Yeah, One big mess of pitiful beings hell-bent on self-destruction & lost in the visceral depths of our own corrupted egos and seemingly-boundless naivety.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it, pope boy!

...whatever, man... as far as I'm concerned, placing your trust in another human being to be a reliable middle-man for god & god's "word" (no matter how righteous their intentions may seem) is, plain and simply, spiritual suicide. The pope knows no more about god than you do. And if you think he does.... well, may god have mercy on your soul. Or some such nonsense.. I don't really care about any of this to be honest. Catholicism is as redundant to me as floppy disks in the modern world. Sure, you can rely on it if you want to.... but you're fooling yourself if you believe that the old ways are best. Religion has had its day... and the "Grand Deception" isn't coming - it's already been perpetrated upon us.

God has never, and will never, resort to Fear to procure obedience from its own Creation. That defeats the entire purpose of... well, everything. It's like a computer programmer creating a game and then punishing the characters in the game for disobeying the programmer's orders, even though in order for the disobedience to be possible in the first place, the programmer had to allow the characters to disobey his orders in the code he wrote. What kind of narcissistic paranoid deity would behave in such a manner - and yet claim to come from a place of Love?

Not our deity. Only human beings are that rudely bold and sadistic. God - the benevolent creator and source of all things - has nothing to prove to anything or anyone. He simply allows us to be, and shares (quietly) in the experiences which we all choose for ourselves both collectively and individually. And all this is done rightly so! We see this concept as "bad parenting" in modern society. But realistically, what we're faced with is "total freedom". Which, in the right light I suppose, can be seen as "bad parenting"... or it can also be seen as "unconditional love".

Or, of course, you can subscribe to the nihilistic belief that the universe is the result of Nothing creating Nothing out of sheer Nothingness following a split moment of random chance... a directionless universe of Nothingness which is perpetually unfolding into more Nothingness with no inherent purpose or sense to be made of our complicated lives as sentient creative beings whatsoever... a giant Nothing that keeps evolving into more pointless Nothing.

Hmm... personally, I find that concept nearly as absurd as our dogmatic religions. But believe what you want. You've got it all wrong - God doesn't care! Whatever you believe in - God created it! Therefore it cannot be wrong - nor can it be right. It simply is. It merely exists as an "option" - an option which you choose. You decide if it's the right one or not. And no matter what you pick - you're not wrong for whatever you believe. There is no right or wrong - only the consequences of your actions.

So - choose your beliefs wisely... because God's not doing all this for his own glory or for the recognition & empty praise from his own creation - he's doing it for you! So that you might live, and choose, and be. That's Love. Not this eternal Hell bullsh#t, or this "original sin" crap, or the whole "give me coins and I'll clean your slate" abuse of religious authority (which used to go on - I don't even know if it still does or not since I'm not Catholic)... not to mention the whole pedo thing, which requires drastic scrutiny from all human beings to understand and solve this important issue!

But in any case, I digress. the point is: God loves you no matter what you do because you're a part of "him"/it. You can't not be loved by him/her/it, since nothing can possibly exist outside of existence itself (aka - God).

Brothers.. sisters... if you fear any aspect of God, then you've got it all wrong. And religious institutions like Catholicism are firmly rooted in Fear. So f#ck religion, and f#ck the pope. That's my opinion on the matter - not that anyone cares lol

Peace & love! Please, anyone who reads this - focus more on what unites us and not what divides us, as division is an illusion. Unity is the true nature of all things; however, we live in a very delicate realm of precarious balance. But we are all still connected by the same 'energy field'. And it's past time we behaved as such!

What You Think; You Become.

Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits.
Watch your habits; they become character.

Watch your character; as it becomes your destiny.

Some Old Bloke

reply to post by TheAnarchist


Good post mate, a lot of common sense there!