Desire-What you leave behind-The Creators Plan, page 2

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by dodol

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I'm a bit confused by the way you stated your position, but I think I understand enough of it. Let me know if I have this wrong, but, you're suggesting that...

Being conscious, and being aware, are two different things. Consciousness, or existing within a body (what you refer to as an avatar) is a secondary, or tertiary state-of-being. Awareness is our primary state, and if we are/become aware, then we somehow transcend our physical body, detaching from consciousness, which, seemingly, arises from the spectrum of emotions?

Exactly. for example, my awareness level right now makes me realize that im no different than other beings.

If I put myself inside mind of a wolf then i become that wolf. Take that the previous spirit inside that wolf and bind it to the human mind i currently inhabit and that spirit will become human. And since the memories between human and wolf are diff, both spirits will have 'amnesia' (except if the awareness of the two spirits are high)

You're talking about a type of moksha, satori, or nirvana here, aren't you?

Nope, i know i have not attained one during my existence in the realm of suffering because i discovered that my desire is unimaginably high even with this level of awareness.
IMHO, moksha, etc is the elimination of the desire, etc.
Even if our awareness is super high, without attaining moksha, etc, we are still tied to desire to be born into the realms of suffering. We will rebirth over and over again. The only advantage of having high awareness is we quickly realize that we are not those living beings we inhabit.

My question then would be: how did you end up within your avatar at all?

If you were, or are, a part of the "aware," how did you even end up muddled into an individualistic body? For a perfected being to even consider a body composed of emotion, desire, or craving, means that such elements are not actually voided by ascending up the ladder of awareness, but that they are just as existent there, as here. Otherwise, the temptation of tangibility would never have arisen.

IMHO, just like the topic of this thread, It's our desire (and maybe fear of death, guilty feeling, disatisfaction, disappointment, etc) and karma prob decides which reality for next destination and what kind of beings we will be too.

But some other enlightened ppl here at ATS also believe that we are sent here to learn and help others

reply to post by dodol

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Do you think, then, that were you to achieve nirvana, or some similar state, that all emotion and desire would disappear?

In escaping from the wheel of samsara, do you leave behind all love, compassion, joy, peace, calm, discomfort, sorrow, anger, and hate? Or do you maintain those emotions which people perceive as positive? Because, as you said, if people come back, reincarnate, to help others, aren't they still caught in the cycle of thinking their desires and motivations are themselves?

Is there a difference between escaping from all desire; and desiring to help others escape from desire? I see the latter as still being caught in the chain of dependent origination.

I'm not a Hindu, or a Buddhist though. Maybe I'm missing something?

~ Wandering Scribe

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by dodol

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Do you think, then, that were you to achieve nirvana, or some similar state, that all emotion and desire would disappear?

In escaping from the wheel of samsara, do you leave behind all love, compassion, joy, peace, calm, discomfort, sorrow, anger, and hate? Or do you maintain those emotions which people perceive as positive? Because, as you said, if people come back, reincarnate, to help others, aren't they still caught in the cycle of thinking their desires and motivations are themselves?

Is there a difference between escaping from all desire; and desiring to help others escape from desire? I see the latter as still being caught in the chain of dependent origination.

I'm not a Hindu, or a Buddhist though. Maybe I'm missing something?

~ Wandering Scribe

I believe when someone achieve nirvana, all desires, emotions (angers, hatreds, etc), are completely gone.
There is only one state left, imho, some kind of deep sleep in nothingness, doing nothing, but somehow it is the ultimate happiness.
Nirvana is The final realization: letting go everything we 'believe we own' is the ultimate happiness. It's like idling doing nothing, and only aware that we exist and always exist, eternally.
Imho, attaining nirvana is different than attaining normal enlightenment where we can still have desire to do something. Like Buddha said nirvana is complete 'annihilation', cessation of everything.

In this life, sometimes we feel bored when idling. This is because of desire to do something.

As they come back, everyone of them is trapped by Ego to believe they are their avatars. They are trapped by the emotions of the avatar.
But if they used to attain high consciousness in their previous life, whenever they experience certain events, it could wake them from their 'sleep'
I started to question my life since 8 years ago, when my life turned chaotic: Who am i, what am i doing, what is afterlife, is heaven/hell real, etc. Three times i was ejected from my avatar (oobe). Everything around me was darkness and all i saw is my avatar inside a screen (like watching tv). The last one was last december when i saw a spiral like thing which was either universe or milky way

When i was kid, i had almost no ego. I always treated bible and any other religious books as fantasy stories. I treated my body like robot that i controlled from inside
I completely submitted myself to my ego in high school when i failed my year 10 (iirc). It was when i was in warehouse in my parents' house (part of punishment). From that day onwards, I always thought that ego was guardian angel.

Desire to help others to escape suffering is ultimate desire. Being someone like bodhisattva, with this desire we are trapped until the cycle ends, most likely, end of universe. Because if we think about it, it's impossible to help everyone to self realize. Only they can help themselves. That's also because We are infinite possibilities (and probabilities) coming from imaginations or thoughts of Oneness.

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