Moon hoax question: Lunar Laser Ranging Experiment

Originally posted by Nightaudit
reply to post by manmental

 

The burden of proof is on the conspiracy side. And so far I haven´t heard of any experts who examined the samples claiming a hoax.

Hi Nightaudit... I've no idea what there is such a furor on this thread... its a shame as its good to discuss these matters... again. I daren't reply to any of the obviously dodgy posts... people who just joined...
Don't know if this will calm down... but anyway... for what it's worth...

Yes, I can understand that if you believe NASA then indeed you would say the burden of proof is on the conspiracy side. Those on the opposite side would question why you believe NASA 100%.

I don't know how you would classify an expert... but the dictionary says
A person with a high degree of skill in or knowledge of a certain subject.
Now there is one person who has spent 1000's of hours researching the possibility of the moon mission being faked and so therefore I would say he is an expert in this subject matter. I know you meant an expert on moon rocks etc... but you didn't specify... so I am taking this opportunity to link to an expert in all things about the Moon Hoax... everyone's favourite 'genius who beats NASA at their own game' ... good ol' Jarrah White, much maligned IMHO.



Here is part one of god knows how many of his moon rocks revisted videos. These are updates to the originals which you should watch but these counter some counter claims to his originals and add some more beef. I think you'll find the detail and research if you watch all his moon rock stuff is rather impressive. (I wish he didn't spend so much time on trivialities based on his beef with his debunkers... but given the amount of personal abuse thrown his way I don't blame him for getting a bit peed off on occasion.)

I don't know if you've seen any of JW's videos. I've watched them all with great interest. I recommend them if you are interested in the subject of a moon conspiracy. And have a few days spare... he doesn't know the meaning of 'less is more' unfortunately.

Yes he can be a right noob on occasion but he does make an effort.. most of it validly presented even if you don't agree with his take on matters, and he admits to making mistakes and corrects them. Unlike some.
I don't agree with everything he says, and there's some things he says that make me cringe, but he has introduced me to aspects about the NASA space program that I knew nothing about and it has led me to my own research and ways of thinking. And I think he raises some very interesting anomalies.
So I'm not a JW convert but I applaud his style and conviction.

reply to post by manmental


Hi there manmetal,

good to hear from you!

My answer to the reasons for my belief in the original story is that there not a single shred of real info that leads me to doubt that. Instead I have seen interviews with dozens (hundreds?) of people involved in all possible aspects of the Apollo program. I have learned of countless fascinating technical challenges that they had to overcome, and how they did it.

I have seen photos and videos from the astronauts and I am still thoroughly amazed by their achievments.

Other´s have seen posts on the internet about photos and countless other little details that are "wrong" because the people behind these claims have usually no technical experience in the fields they criticize.


That is why for examples shadows in pictures are deemed to be undeniable proof for a fake, by people who have no idea of photography. All of those "facts" and problems have been explained over the years. All. Of. Them.

How a rational and OBJECTIVE human being can compare BOTH sides of the argument and still choose the hoax is an enigma to me.

Forgive me for not watching the videos of Mr. White. I have seen so many of the like in the past. He surely will not change my mind for the reasons mentioned above.

I have learned one thing the hard way. It is very easy to produce serious doubt about almost anything you want.

There is a real difference between saving the hoax from being impossible (the rocks COULD have been gotten in another way, there COULD have been unmanned missions, etc) and proving that the original story cannot be true.

And again, so far every single piece of supposed evidence by the hoaxers has already been explained.

If there are people on this planet still believing in a hoax, then I would say it is more the internets fault which connects all the whackos who then reinforce themselves in their beliefs.

Sorryif I do sound a little harsh here, but that is how I see it. MY original intent with this thread was to see how hoaxers "think" their way out of the samples. I do know that now. They were collected by numerous secret mission and / or are fake anyway.

Convincing.

Originally posted by manmental

Now there is one person who has spent 1000's of hours researching the possibility of the moon mission being faked and so therefore I would say he is an expert in this subject matter.....

Here is part one of god knows how many of his moon rocks revisted videos.

The lunar samples have been intensively studied by thousands of people all over the planet; people not under the authority of NASA or the U.S. government. If there was something fishy I'm sure we would have heard about it long before now from people far more qualified in the subject than Jarrah White.

Quick fact. For you. We never landed on the Sun either. Makes you wonder. Where was the Sun landing faked? Not in Area 51 like the Moon landing. Or was it Mercury. Hot enough. But not liquid enough. Think about it.

reply to post by dougc411


If that is supposed to be a joke, well then it didn´t land.

reply to post by Nightaudit


Or you could just go to NASA.gov and actually see the reflector experiments with your own eye in the LRO photos (Lunar Recon Orbiter), also, you actualy don't need a laser. At the time of the Apollo missions, the surface of the Moon was routinely radar mapped, from the planet Earth! in amazingly accurate detail.

reply to post by Nightaudit

That is why for examples shadows in pictures are deemed to be undeniable proof for a fake, by people who have no idea of photography. All of those "facts" and problems have been explained over the years. All. Of. Them.

Thank you for the well composed and detailed reply and it is obvious you won't change your mind.
Unlike you I enjoy reading facts and arguments from all sides.
I think its a shame you think all of us 'hoax believers' think so much about the importance some of the so called hoax evidence.
That shadow stuff is mostly useless and so are many other trivial stuff you'll see if you only look at the most obvious (and now dated and old) moon hoax videos.
I agree lots of it is rubbish. Especially the shadows/coke bottle/no stars stuff.
But the more I looked into the the hoax the more I found that I felt was genuinely 'odd' and anomalous. And a lot of that came from Jarrah White stuff.
And so that is why I'm on the fence. Along with the other reasons I gave!
But I will agree it was Man's Greatest Achievement... be it a Hoax or a Reality... either way it rocks.