Big Bear police caught on scanner discusing burning down the cottage dronner was in and then it burn

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posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 09:06 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


But the SWAT teams invading houses of people with small amounts of drugs, killing dogs, etc. happen.

???

So why have a SWAT team if you're just going to burn the place down?

And once again - this all comes down to skipping due process of the law, which is NOT GOOD and very serious.

And it happened right on national TV. I hope the FBI or some type of a trustworthy entity of IA will go after this.

No one in America - regardless of the crime(s) they have "allegedly committed" should have their right to their day in court taken away like this. It's unconstitutional, and we here at ATS are (I thought) very pro-constitutional???

Terrorists in GITMO are still in jail, waiting to go through with their trial.

How can some people not see how messed up this is? I am astounded at the people who are disregarding due process. Frankly, it's scary.




posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 09:14 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


This guy was on the run he is now trapped in a house and surounded there is no escape all they got to do is wait him out or wait untill he has no ammo left.
And remember the police are paid and trained to work in this environment we don't exept soldiers who are angry and go on killing rampages of innecent people why should the police be alowed.
Like i said earlier i fan understand your thought process before waki g up to bow many lies we are told i would have thought the same.
But many people have posted many reason on why
1 it is against the law to do what they did
2 with SOP's like this inesent people will die when there is no need
He had no were to run they had him corner'd
If some kied my famy i wouldn't want them taking the easy way out as the VICTIM I would want my day in court against the man



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 09:17 PM
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reply to post by xXSvenXx
 

The elderly couple they got to before cornering him in this cabin isn't sufficient proof to the degree cops on the scene need to know they have an exceptionally dangerous person?

The news reports talk about the elderly couple he'd been holding hostage while reporting he was cornered in the cabin. That tells me if the media had it by then, the cops knew about it and had the details of what he'd been up to with them. Proof needs to be how certain in determining level of threat?

Obviously, no one takes the cop's word for it out of multiple cities in those past shootings, as they also sound pretty sure it was him they were trading shots with. The one killed in Riverside at the stop light ambush was a 2 man unit. He only killed one of them by what I was just reading.

Then.. well... His own manifesto saying he's doing what he's doing while he's doing it.

c'mon.. there are cases to really question guilt.... this isn't fairly one, IMO.
edit on 13-2-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 09:22 PM
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Quoting the manifesto is not evedence there are a lot of unaswer'd questions surround it.
I know this is not the point of this thread just trying to show you all this evedence you think you know about is not evedence at all



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 09:23 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Also all eyewitness that I have seen him that didn't pull a gun on him are still alive
Now he could have only shot back at police because he was defending himself.
If you think thats a joke you are right because because we wouldn't know without the courts.
But it's no less valid then all the crap being given to us by the msm
edit on 13-2-2013 by jaffer44 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 09:24 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Why did he go to riverside then to big bear where they were already looking for him?

Have you ever been to big bear? Its not like there is a lot of ways in and out....



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 09:30 PM
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Originally posted by jaffer44
Quoting the manifesto is not evedence there are a lot of unaswer'd questions surround it.
I know this is not the point of this thread just trying to show you all this evedence you think you know about is not evedence at all

Fair point....but essentially calling crime victims wrong, cops in shootouts wrong, and his own statements questionable, I'd ask something about why?

What is it about this guy that some find so attractive? I'm honestly curious? We all look at any number of news headlines and cases on ATS and generally it's against the Cops. The bad guys that get sympathy are usually sympathetic IN some way. I can't find anything but bad vs. bad here. Almost like a toned down First Blood movie with an ex-cop, not ex-soldier. (ended about the same way too)

However, in this case, we have an Ex-Cop that, by his own statements and record, was pissed he couldn't get his job back of all things, and the cops who go after their own guy to stop him killing anyone else.

It might have at least been focused if LAPD had BEEN the focus. That was his beef, if any, but it was anyone he came in contact with, apparently.

Now there ARE a lot of unanswered questions here. Yes indeed. Like just WHAT did he DO for LAPD where he got quite THAT good at playing it all right back on the best Southern California Departments could offer ? LAPD has had some bad units in it's past. Damn near Death Squads, to be plain about it. What was his history, exactly? Not part of any violent reoffender/recapture programs, was he?

It doesn't help the case that he was any less dangerous to anything around him though....



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 09:31 PM
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Originally posted by jaffer44
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Also all eyewitness that I have seen him that didn't pull a gun on him are still alive
Now he could have only shot back at police because he was defending himself.
If you think thats a joke you are right because because we wouldn't know without the courts.
But it's no less valid then all the crap being given to us by the msm
edit on 13-2-2013 by jaffer44 because: (no reason given)
Except his ex-lawyer /ex lapd captains daughter and fiance... Most of the evidence points to Dorner committing those murders and i think they were holding only onto taco bell burritos... Which if Dorner did murder them the whole he only shot at armed thugs is wrong... Lets wait for more evidence before convicting, condemning, or praising him for only going after *the man*



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 09:32 PM
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Originally posted by impaired
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 




And once again - this all comes down to skipping due process of the law, which is NOT GOOD and very serious.

And it happened right on national TV. I hope the FBI or some type of a trustworthy entity of IA will go after this.

No one in America - regardless of the crime(s) they have "allegedly committed" should have their right to their day in court taken away like this. It's unconstitutional, and we here at ATS are (I thought) very pro-constitutional???

Terrorists in GITMO are still in jail, waiting to go through with their trial.

How can some people not see how messed up this is? I am astounded at the people who are disregarding due process. Frankly, it's scary.


I hope I don't get put on some type of list for this but I really believe the core problem is with the FBI division that investigates public corruption. If the local cops believed there was even a small chance of being held responsible, this would not have happened.

Read about Waco - all the innocent children killed. Not only did they do NOTHING but they tried it yet again with the FLDS raid in 2008. The FBI took the exact same steps with the FLDS. The only thing that didn't work is the members put up no resistance even when they took their children and fired in the air to make them think they were being shot at.

If they are willing to turn their backs on dead children, they have no problem with a minority cop killer.

The police with the help of the FBI will keep on killing people they don't like.

edit on February 13th 2013 by Daughter2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 09:39 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 



So how many dead cops would have been enough? Another 2? 3? How many before they either shot the house to pieces in a cross fire 'just to be sure', or burned it down anyway? This was not a man who "maybe" committed a crime. He'd outright said, in his own words, he was going to war with police. He was in a GUN BATTLE with TWO different city policdepartments .....and most shockingly... he actually broke contact and got CLEAR of both.


You assume he actually wrote that crap in the manifesto…mistake number 1.

Mistake two – you provide a logical fallacy as a defense; it’s not one or the other! It’s not MORE COPS DIE or HE DIES. They could have waited him out. How many days can a man live without food or water?? The cops controlled both at that point.




Growing up around the police culture and cops, that last detail made him infinitely more dangerous in my mind...and I wasn't the one being actively hunted. The cops were, as he declared himself. he'd kill them, anywhere he could ...and he did just that.

I don’t want anyone to die. I’m saying there is a rule of law in America…innocent until proven guilty. No sentence can be imposed until there is an adjudication of guilt, my friend!




So.... Again, you have a rabid dog surrounded. Now what? Storming a house only works with people who aren't LOOKING to die and simply take more with them. If they had gone in, lost half a dozen more guys, we'd all be calling the :LAPD criminally negligent for that.

Tick toc tick toc tick toc….sit and wait until he’s out of options!


edit on 13-2-2013 by seabag because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 09:44 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Sorry if some were along the line I gave the impresion that I think the cops are all wrong.
I live in Australia and have a few police who are mates and as freaked out as me after showing them this.
I have all the respect in the world for our police.
I grieve for any victims of voilent crime and murder but there is a reason we don't put the victims in the jury box.
I feel so sorry for the couple in the parking lot.
And I want to know what happened but we will only get one side of the story now killing him has done nothing but feul the conspiracy.
Remember the police are trained for this a lot do the job because they like the adrenalin my mates are good cops but they will be the first to admit they want the tuff callouts.
I think we need to remember thoughs old lady's in the pickup and how lucky they were not to be dead there were a hell of a lot of bullet holes in that car.
They were shot because police were angry and believed bad intel without following SOP's and verfying they had the right target.
This exact same sinero could have been the end result of burn that house.
I think that is the best way I can explain to you why a lot of feel the way we do



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 09:47 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


your asking why we think he is a hero
I think there is only one or two post here saying that I defently am not saying that and will not defend him at all for killing people.
That was not the point of this thread



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 09:50 PM
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Originally posted by jaffer44
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


your asking why we think he is a hero
I think there is only one or two post here saying that I defently am not saying that and will not defend him at all for killing people.
That was not the point of this thread


Yes. Once again, it comes down to only two words: Due Process.

Due Process. I feel I have to say that a few times.
That's what this is about.



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 09:52 PM
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reply to post by Daughter2
 


Ouch. But true.

Is there any hope at real justice these days?


And if we put on a watch list for discussing this, then...

Oh yeah.



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 10:01 PM
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reply to post by Domo1
 


still like the joker cat.. lol

for your FYI

looked up the device found something interesting

Athens online-




FBI admits agents used incendiary device in Waco
Posted: Wednesday, August 25, 1999
By ALICE ANN LOVE
Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON (AP) - Taking back previous disavowals, the FBI now admits that federal agents fired one or more incendiary tear gas canisters during the 1993 standoff with Branch Davidian cult members in Texas, a federal law enforcement official says.

The agency, however, still maintains it did not start the fire that consumed the Davidians' compound with leader David Koresh and more than 80 followers inside. The April 19, 1993, inferno ended a 51-day siege by federal agents trying to serve a warrant for Koresh's arrest on firearms and explosive charges.


The police department would have known the result if they used the tactic



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by Domo1

There is a rather large difference between a homeowner chucking these canisters into a home and a SWAT team doing it. You would also probably get laughed out of court if you just randomly started shooting at your home. In
Another thing to consider is that the guy set the fire himself to gain sympathy and foster even more distrust for LE. I read somewhere that they heard a single gunshot from the cabin when the fire broke out.
While all these theories have a *maybe be, could of been* I would like to counter that with Dorner was WAY hostile to the LAPD, he was shooting at and killing some more officers before he barricaded himself into the cabin. Burning himself alive would not garner anymore sympathy then that is already out there... He would of wanted to take more of the SOB he hated. He bought a little bit a time in the cabin and could of completed more of his main objective before being taken out, (killing more cops).. All his actions up to now show us he isn't a light himself on fire like a peaceful monk and protest the man... If that was his goal he would of off'ed himself way long ago... The cops shot incendiary grenades into the cabin, most likely to draw him out in the open so they could switzzcheese him..



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 10:06 PM
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Originally posted by pacifier2012

the duty the Police have to protect me is to do whatever they need to to take him down by whatever means is the least risk to them. Shot, burn, blow up, whatever.

You are a very sick and selfish person. Money and material things will be a curse around your neck all your life.


Their duty is to "PROTECT YOU" by 'WHATEVR MEANS" ? Yet you have the audacity to call Somebody sick and selfish.



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by Revealation

Originally posted by pacifier2012

the duty the Police have to protect me is to do whatever they need to to take him down by whatever means is the least risk to them. Shot, burn, blow up, whatever.

You are a very sick and selfish person. Money and material things will be a curse around your neck all your life.


Their duty is to "PROTECT YOU" by 'WHATEVR MEANS" ? Yet you have the audacity to call Somebody sick and selfish.

The police have no legal duty to protect citizens... Shooter walks into a school, front desk calls 911 and tells them someone is shooting 911 dispatches officers to school, officers wait 15 min until shots have stopped being fired before going on..... Same with a gang related shooting, they wait until its over and come to clean up the bodies.... The LAPD was not protecting anyone in SOCAL other them themselves



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 10:20 PM
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remember the old lady's
They were shot because of the very exuses that are being given saying burning the cottages is ok.

They were angry
They were scared
They had bad intel
They didn't follow SOP and make sure they had the right target.

All the same mistakes are being given as reasons that it is ok that they burnt the house down.
More inecent people could have died.
Are you saying what happend to the lady's was ok in trying to catch this guy
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
edit on 13-2-2013 by jaffer44 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by ripcontrol
 


More about the use of "Burners",as the cops call pyrotechnic tear gas.

Tear Gas Started Pharmacy Fire, Report Says



articles.sun-sentinel.com... - 43k - Cached -


A police dog and teenage suspect James Connelly died in the incident.



Despite the fire risk, police and SWAT guidelines do not address the issue.



May 30, 2001 ... The pyrotechnic tear gas fired by Boynton Beach police uses a burning canister that remains hot for at least several minutes. It is similar to ...




Newer and safer products can be substituted for flammable tear gas canisters, said Andy Casavant, a training specialist with the Police Training Institute at the University of Illinois.

"A number of buildings have been burned to the ground," he said of pyrotechnic tear gas. "There's always that potential."


It is very hot and is well known to start fires.
A cabin in Big Bear would probably go up like a match stick.





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