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Big Bear police caught on scanner discusing burning down the cottage dronner was in and then it burn

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posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 06:20 PM
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San Bernardino Sheriff's Press conference: "We didn't intentionally burn down the cabin."

Well then. that's all neat and tidy.

I suggest we all totally take their word for it,

Despite what we all heard on the scanners. And saw on TV. And the three shot civilians.





posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 06:21 PM
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May be a crazy question but asking anyway.

Since they have admitted that it was one of the hot tear gas units that started the fire, who pays to rebuild the cabin?

The insurance company? The LAPD?

I would gather the owners of the cabin must not be happy.



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 06:21 PM
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reply to post by Domo1
 


I have a haed time believing the cannistor therory.
I look at it like this
If I went to court against a insurance company about my house burning down and they bought the audio recording into court I would be screwed.
Whats good for the goose is good for the gander



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 06:22 PM
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Originally posted by kosmicjack
San Bernardino Sheriff's Press conference: "We didn't intentionally burn down the cabin."

Well then. that's all neat and tidy.

I suggest we all totally take their word for it,

Despite what we all heard on the scanners. And saw on TV. And the three shot civilians.






Exactly. Thank you. Move along.. nothing to see here. I mean.. just ignore the fact that they said on the radio "are we going ahead with the plan?". And the talk about burners. And that they deployed 8 BURNERS (I know burners are slang for tear gas). Never mind that we heard on the radio how they waited for all 4 sides of the cabin to be ablaze. Never mind that we HEARD them say they were waiting for the roof to collapse, and the basement to be engulfed.

Jesus.. are we really expected to be this stupid?!??!?



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 06:23 PM
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reply to post by jaffer44
 

I agree with you entirely about cops being trained and paid to get a job done and fight, not kill, when the situation calls for it. I'm usually among the first to yell about poorly trained or under equipped cops resorting to force far more often than is required in a given situation. All very good points.

I think this case, taken alone, forms the exception to the rule. I say that because they did try hunting him down....and he had many days to turn himself in by other means or to another department 100% cold on a walk-in. Orange or Santa Ana or Laguna Beach P.D. weren't going to shoot him right at the front desk if he walked in and surrendered. He chose not to do any of those things. The cops around the cabin were considering all that, I'm sure.

If fact, we know he was still committing major felony crimes right to the last day in the example of the couple he held hostage and terrorized in another cabin. Again, all this would be in the minds of the cops as they made the call to burn him out rather than shoot it out.....again. The previous shoot-outs hadn't scored well for the cops. (Given their demonstrated bad aim and judgement for shoot-outs in this case, that was the worst option at that point, IMO)

In fairness to all things considered, it just strikes me as limited options in a real bad situation, isn't it?



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by XalienagendaX
Did anyone watch the police update that just happened? Holy crap the officers who spoke sure as snip are trying to cover up things...they couldn't look any more guilty. Wow...what a disgrace.


Do you have a link so we can watch it mate
thanks in advance



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 06:26 PM
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Originally posted by DerekJR321 " are we really expected to be this stupid?!??!?"


it would seem so.



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 06:28 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 


Dorner didn’t decide the cops should burn down the cabin he was in.

We normally agree but I think you’re in left field on this one….still respect you though!


I respectfully disagree. When you have killed cops, had shootouts with cops and kidnapped citizens.....you really have two choices when the end comes. You can surrender or be killed. Stand Trial or Suicide by Cop. Of all people, he knew that best.

He made the choice because only HE could control the option to surrender. When that choice was rejected the choice for the cops was made for them. End it by shoot-out and risk more cops? Or END IT. They chose to end it....and I'll bet there are at least a couple children and wives of the cops and deputies around that cabin who can't know how much better their lives are today for that decision having been made.

Recall, my upbringing was around cops. I have no sympathy for a bad cop...and LESS for a bad cop who goes on to murder OTHER cops. This one was both. Given the lack of choices Dorner left them? They saved California 10's of millions in running him to Death Row.....as he was going no where else if taken alive, IMO.

edit on 13-2-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


I have to say your last post is the best argument for the its ok do it side so far.
I will have to agree to disagree but I can see your thought process and its not covered in your persinal emotions.
I can see there is a chance that there may be no conspiracy behind what happend now and just bad desions being made but I'm not sold yet



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 06:33 PM
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I dont know if you guys noticed this but Chris's wallet was found TWICE!!!

Something tells me Coverup!

______beforeitsnews/blogging-citizen-journalism/2013/02/chris-dorners-wallet-found-twice-2445480.html
edit on 13-2-2013 by APOCOLYPSE DAWN because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by Domo1
reply to post by seabag
 





Obviously it was because if you listen to the video at 1:01, the cop says “we’re going forward with the plan with the burners….like we talked about.” Obviously they planned to execute him that way prior to finding him.


I'm still fairly certain that referring to a certain type of CS canister as a 'burner' is not all that uncommon. The BurnSafe canisters. My understanding is that these are not all that safe and are typically used after normal teargas as they are more likely to cause a fire.

Again, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the police were hoping the guy would be killed and not face trial, which I have a huge problem with. I just think we should be aware that a 'burner' isn't necessarily something that's only purpose is in fact to catch something on fire.


Bro, dispatch said "Copy - Burners deployed...we have FIRE"

I don't know anyone who describes CS as "FIRE," do you?



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by jaffer44
reply to post by Domo1
 


I have a haed time believing the cannistor therory.
I look at it like this
If I went to court against a insurance company about my house burning down and they bought the audio recording into court I would be screwed.
Whats good for the goose is good for the gander


I think the canister theory makes the most sense. It would be the next reasonable action to take, cops know that what they say on those radios is getting recorded, the media was there, the investigation and manhunt were highly publicized etc.

There is a rather large difference between a homeowner chucking these canisters into a home and a SWAT team doing it. You would also probably get laughed out of court if you just randomly started shooting at your home. In a situation like this it's required that the police take certain risks and use force. I don't believe they intentionally burned the place down. If anything I think they were trying to gas him out so they could shoot him when he exited the building. I'm fairly certain there was a strong feeling of F this guy, he's not getting a trial but burning the house down would have been a dumb way to go about it.

He could have exited the building when it caught fire (though I believe he would have been shot).

Another thing to consider is that the guy set the fire himself to gain sympathy and foster even more distrust for LE. I read somewhere that they heard a single gunshot from the cabin when the fire broke out. I certainly wouldn't put it past someone who (allegedly) killed a few folks and had a vendetta against law enforcement starting a fire and then shooting himself. He was most likely guilty, most likely didn't want to spend the rest of his days in jail and this would have been an easy way for him to paint LE in a bad light (his goal) while avoiding jail time and repercussions for his actions.

I really think that we are doing ourselves a disservice if we automatically and emphatically state that 'burners' (whatever they may be) were used to start a fire. It is certainly a possibility, and I think it's good people are questioning, but I really don't like the way so many hop so quickly to one side or the other. We here a few seconds of audio and suddenly there is a conspiracy. There are many facets to this incident, all worth looking into and a distrust of police shouldn't automatically lead anyone to the conclusion that they attempted murder or that this guy didn't set the fire himself. I guess I just think we should view the thing from all possible sides.



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 06:53 PM
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reply to post by jaffer44
 


There was no bad intel. They were positive it was him. This guy already killed a few cops, so now you are saying that more cops need to risk their lives to bring this asshole to court?

Why is everyone on this board so naive?

Doner deserved to die in that cottage and risking more lives so this POS could have a 3 ringed bull# circus of a trial wasn't the way to go.


Killing him was.


Fortunately, very small amount of society agrees with your way of thinking.


What did you want?

A cop to sneak inside, take some photos of him, run out, print them up, so the police could be 100% sure it was him?


HE TIED UP 2 CLEANING LADIES! THEY ESCAPED! THEY IDENTIFIED THE ASSAILANT AS DONER!

IF THATS NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU TO THINK THE POLICE DONT HAVE THE RIGHT TO GO AFTER HIM THE WAY THEY DID, WHATS WRONG WITH YOU?????


I could just see it now


"Excuse me, Mr. Doner; Would you pretty please, with sugar on top, come out of the cabin now? Pleeeeease??"


Your all so naive. If your an american terrorist and go to the middle east for terrorist training, Damn right a hellfire missiles going to take you out. LOL at ATS members thinking Anwar al-Awlaki
or whatever his name was deserved to be arrested and have trial. Awlaki was part of a group that KILLS AMERCIAN CIVILIANS. He doesn't even merit the geneva conventions; much less the constitution.

Doners in the same boat. He got turned into a crispy critter, if you have a problem with it, maybe you all should try and do something about it instead of talking about it on a mesageboard. Write a letter to your state legislature, do whatever makes you happy.

Fortunately, about 98% of American Society doesn't share the same views as the average paranoid, naive, gullible, US hating Abovetopsecret Members.


Mess with this country enough, and our government will kill you. Believe it or not, some like it that way. Go to some sissy country if you don't like the way things are around here, I guarantee you, they wont be changing.



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by iwontrun
Wow last week it was talk of killing "suspected" terrorists with drone strikes, now its actually killing "suspected" killers with "ye" age old burning of the stake. What is our country coming to where due prosess is just a term of the past? Make sure hence forth your not suspected of a crime TPTB might just kill you to save court costs!


that's right...kill someone, and you will be killed. everybody is all excited about this guy having some type of rights. gees, where have you been, if you do not give up immediately, and cause LE to fear you, you will be killed by any means necessary. this has been going on for decades. why should LE risk their own lives, just so this SOB can have his day in court?

Why should the police risk there lives so he can have his day in court
Jesus because thats what there paid to do keep law and bloody order not burn the place down



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 06:58 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 



I respectfully disagree. When you have killed cops, had shootouts with cops and kidnapped citizens.....you really have two choices when the end comes. You can surrender or be killed. Stand Trial or Suicide by Cop. Of all people, he knew that best.

So what about my Iran analogy?

Here is the scenario following your logic - Iran (or N Korea) should submit to the charges that they have nukes and are a threat to the world. So, to avoid any unnecessary death on our part, we should nuke them. They made the choice by making nukes, now they have to live with the consequences. No trial…no court…guilty! Sound good?





He made the choice because only HE could control the option to surrender. When that choice was rejected the choice for the cops was made for them. End it by shoot-out and risk more cops? Or END IT. They chose to end it....and I'll bet there are at least a couple children and wives of the cops and deputies around that cabin who can't know how much better their lives are today for that decision having been made.

Do you recall anyone asking him to surrender? When did we give cops the authority to kill fugitives who have barricaded themselves in a dwelling? I must have missed that!




Recall, my upbringing was around cops. I have no sympathy for a bad cop...and LESS for a bad cop who goes on to murder OTHER cops. This one was both. Given the lack of choices Dorner left them? They saved California 10's of millions in running him to Death Row.....as he was going no where else if taken alive, IMO.


I don’t know your upbringing. I have cops in my family now…I’m most certainly NOT anti-cop. BUT….a big BUT…I DO NOT think police had no choice but to kill him. There is a thing called police negotiators. They could have inserted a phone, opened a line of communication and possibly negotiated a peaceful surrender. If not, they could have surrounded the house and waited him out.

It could be any of us one day, bro!
edit on 13-2-2013 by seabag because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 07:02 PM
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reply to post by jaffer44
 


Agreed. I don't think police should always wait it out, especially not with a person who is holding hostages and is clearly unstable, but in this case they had the perimeter controlled. I don't have a problem with them lobbing gas canisters, so long as the intent wasn't to burn the guy alive (which I don't personally think was the case) but people have a right to trial, even if you are 99% sure they committed the crimes. That 1% chance of error isn't worth an innocent person dying and that is a slope that gets slippery really fast.



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 07:04 PM
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reply to post by Domo1
 



I think the canister theory makes the most sense. It would be the next reasonable action to take, cops know that what they say on those radios is getting recorded, the media was there, the investigation and manhunt were highly publicized etc.


Yes, a canister….after all, it’s just CS, right?


NOD…WINK.





posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 07:06 PM
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It's clear that this Man was marked for death. The question is, was he marked for death because he shot and killed fellow police officers, or is it because they knew that once they arrested him that he would spill the beans to his attorney and provide evidence that would expose police corruption? ~$heopleNation



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 07:10 PM
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reply to post by bodybagPAT
 



you say this;

" Why is everyone on this board so naive? "

then follow up with this;

" Doner deserved to die in that cottage "



naivete indeed.



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 07:17 PM
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Originally posted by bodybagPAT
reply to post by jaffer44
 



So shooting old lady's in the pickup wasn't bad intel come on

Lots of us would ask you the same question

What evedence as far as i know we all get our day in court

Fortunately, very small amount of society agrees with your way of thinking.
What did you want?
The police to be police and follow the law like the rest of us

A cop to sneak inside, take some photos of him, run out, print them up, so the police could be 100% sure it was him?
No i will decide if he is guilty or not after seeing the evedence in court

HE TIED UP 2 CLEANING LADIES! THEY ESCAPED! THEY IDENTIFIED THE ASSAILANT AS DONER!

He tied up you mean he wasn't so dangours after all would hAve been easier to kill them wouldnt it ?

IF THATS NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU TO THINK THE POLICE DONT HAVE THE RIGHT TO GO AFTER HIM THE WAY THEY DID, WHATS WRONG WITH YOU?????
What is wrong with you of corse i don'd agree with shooting old lady's and burning houses down and then lie about it


I could just see it now


"Excuse me, Mr. Doner; Would you pretty please, with sugar on top, come out of the cabin now? Pleeeeease??"

That would be a start They do have experts to try and help talk him out and give himself up there called negotiators as has already been pointed out earlier
But I dont think have read what others think have you ?
You seem more interested in trying to belittle people for asking very valid questions.


edit on 13-2-2013 by jaffer44 because: (no reason given)





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