Big Bear police caught on scanner discusing burning down the cottage dronner was in and then it burn, page 4

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reply posted on 13-2-2013 @ 10:38 AM by kosmicjack

Former FBI supervisor on CNN said it's not standard operating procedure to set a fire, nor should the person/persons on the scanner have been acting so unprofessionally - said that it raises serious question.

Ya think? At least people are asking questions.

Seems to me, the LAPD and the San Bernardino Sheriff's office conducted themselves exactly as Dorner described in his manifesto - abuse of power.

reply posted on 13-2-2013 @ 10:39 AM by Wildbob77

It sounds like a heat of the moment issue.

When your friends and co workers have just been in a firefight with a known killer, someone might exclaim something stupid like this over the radio.

reply posted on 13-2-2013 @ 10:41 AM by Tardacus

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by jaffer44

Ummmm.. Excuse me? How many cops and innocents did Dorner have to murder in cold blood and ambush before they stopped playing games with him and stopped the attempts to give him a nice, warm handcuffing moment with the perp walk for all to see??

Has it occurred to anyone that Dorner FORCED this outcome by his own choosing? I doubt he really wanted fire as the method. Who does?! However, for suicide by cop? What else did he have?? He was going to die on California's Death Row if he was LUCKY.

If not? He was truly a man in the worst of ALL worlds. He would be going into the maximum security prison world as an ex-LAPD cop. Not even a small town cop he could claim was a good guy or something...but LAPD. WELL KNOWN LAPD at that. Now usually, guards may be half way decent to a cop on the inside. Not Dorner. He's a Cop KILLER too!

So the outcome is tragic but entirely expected. I wouldn't have bet cash on it. I wasn't that sure. Expected is a fair word though. He had ZERO future once the media lights went off.....outside of torment and anguish inflicted by all sides of the system, once inside. I think he went out in a blaze of glory, as intended. He likely just didn't mean it to be THAT literal.

I agree, if he wanted his day in court he had plenty of time and chances to do that.He didn`t want to go to trial he wanted to go down fighting and that`s what he did.

reply posted on 13-2-2013 @ 10:45 AM by CosmicCitizen

Is Arson now a legitimate police tactic for a stand off? Perhaps so....since Waco.

reply posted on 13-2-2013 @ 10:59 AM by kingofmd

He wasn't going anywhere. He was in the house alone. I'm quite certain he didn't have an infinite supply of ammo. Police could have simply starved him out. The best punnishment for a bad cop is jail.

reply posted on 13-2-2013 @ 11:01 AM by Wrabbit2000

reply to post by Tardacus

Sadly, I think that is what happened alright.

I got to thinking more about this and especially as an ex-cop in that area, of all places, he'd have known HOW to end this without a shot fired or a single chance of 'fatal resisting' happening.

Just one method of many he could have used would have been to simply walk right into the ABC, NBC or Fox affiliate stations in the L.A. area. Bold as brass and big as life...just walk right in the front doors of the news division and say, 'Here I am...now don't miss a thing that happens next'. Lets see LAPD so much as give the man a bruise in that situation ....and again, he'd have known that all better than any average person.

It leaves me with the conclusion there. He chose it and he got what he chose. A tragic end to a very bad situation all around.

edit on 13-2-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 13-2-2013 @ 11:06 AM by LucidDreamer85

Originally posted by pacifier2012
He is a killer, he's on record as having killed and planning to kill more. If he's holed up, the duty the Police have to protect me is to do whatever they need to to take him down by whatever means is the least risk to them. Shot, burn, blow up, whatever.

If I was my house, I have insurance and I'd say go ahead. Finish this already..

Does your comment mean your precious house and material possessions are more important to you than the lives of Police Officers attempting to take out a killer?

You are a very sick and selfish person. Money and material things will be a curse around your neck all your life.

Ok let's say he goes to your house. Where your family lives and sleeps.

You still cool with them burning down your house ?

There is always a more intelligent way to do something, you just need enough time to think it through.

I wonder when all the facts from this event/thing will come to light.

reply posted on 13-2-2013 @ 11:08 AM by retiredTxn

reply to post by CosmicCitizen

There was no way he was coming out of this alive. He believed his department turned on him, then expected him to remain silent and accept his punishment. When he "lost it", and killed several police officers and their family members, he sealed his fate. Had he come out of the cabin when the fire started, he would have gone down in a hail of fire. The police would have been exonerated because ALL the SWAT feared for their lives.

It's much easier to use the "Waco excuse", and claim he forced their hand, and the tear gas they used accidentally started a fire. Sorry, he is not able to tell his side of the story, but we will be open and honest and give you the REAL story.

I fear this is just another tactic they will add to their bag of tricks.

reply posted on 13-2-2013 @ 11:10 AM by Daughter2

Originally posted by Wildbob77
It sounds like a heat of the moment issue.

When your friends and co workers have just been in a firefight with a known killer, someone might exclaim something stupid like this over the radio.

They might do something stupid too.....

Emotions were running high. Family and friends do FEEL like killing the killer. Very few people are able to turn the other check right after the incident.

Most people don't because the police stop them, they know they will go to jail or they don't have the ability.

It doesn't seem like the same safeguards were in place this time.

reply posted on 13-2-2013 @ 11:27 AM by butcherguy

reply to post by kingofmd

He wasn't going anywhere.

Of course he wasn't.
The authorities had him marked for death.

reply posted on 13-2-2013 @ 11:30 AM by speeddr2000

Originally posted by pacifier2012
He is a killer, he's on record as having killed and planning to kill more. If he's holed up, the duty the Police have to protect me is to do whatever they need to to take him down by whatever means is the least risk to them. Shot, burn, blow up, whatever.

If I was my house, I have insurance and I'd say go ahead. Finish this already..

Does your comment mean your precious house and material possessions are more important to you than the lives of Police Officers attempting to take out a killer?

You are a very sick and selfish person. Money and material things will be a curse around your neck all your life.

So you think they should just shoot at all blue trucks till they get him ? Oops never mind already happened.

reply posted on 13-2-2013 @ 11:32 AM by OkieDokie

Originally posted by Wildbob77
It sounds like a heat of the moment issue.

When your friends and co workers have just been in a firefight with a known killer, someone might exclaim something stupid like this over the radio.

The video was recorded prior to the scanner audio, so if anything, it shows premeditation on the part of the officers and not just some heat of the moment exclamation.

First we have the video of the officers yelling to "burn it down".

Next we have the scanner audio where the officers discuss "the burners" that "they had talked about".

That's 2-3 separate incidents where the officers talked about burning the house down, followed by the house burning down. With all that in mind, I have a hard time seeing this as a heat of the moment issue.

I understand that any human would be shaken by seeing their friends and coworkers shot at, I get that, but I would expect a little more self control out of trained law enforcement.

~OkieDokie

reply posted on 13-2-2013 @ 11:46 AM by sprtpilot

It wasn't ONLY the discussion about using the burners, after setting the fire they discussed it's progress in detail. They were wanting all corners of the structure to become "fully engulfed". It was all about making sure he was good and dead, and fire was the way to do so.

reply posted on 13-2-2013 @ 12:12 PM by Wrabbit2000

reply to post by LucidDreamer85

Ok let's say he goes to your house. Where your family lives and sleeps.

You still cool with them burning down your house ?

Lets look at this another way. What if those had been your elderly parents he kidnapped and held hostage in their own cabin before being chased into this one? Would you still feel generous toward this guy or bad about how it ended if your mom and dad had been the couple he terrorized? Personally, if that HAD been me, I'd have not only been happy to see how this ended, I'd have helped set the fire myself. it's all perspective, I'd say.

Another point to ponder though. They had it surrounded. Yes. He wasn't going anywhere, true. He WAS a proven killer with little to no provocation...even in ambush. So would you have led the charge to his front door for a proper arrest? You'd have died first.....is all that would have happened. Maybe by the 2nd or 3rd cop he killed through the door, one would get far enough to overpower him and handcuff him. At what cost?

He barricaded himself, knowing by having BEEN on the side working against him, what they would next do. They did it...and he died..as he chose.

reply posted on 13-2-2013 @ 12:34 PM by eXia7

Well, from hearing that I believe they are going to use a scorched earth policy. It will be the standard to firebomb suspected "Senior AL-qaeda operatives"

Spot them with the drones, then firebomb em. No need for a judicial process, or presenting evidence, this is not necessary in the New America.

reply posted on 13-2-2013 @ 12:43 PM by MystikMushroom

I'm pretty sure they used AN-M14 thermite grenades. They look very similar to CS gas or smoke grenades. Remember, the spokeswoman was telling the media that the rubble was "still to hot" -- well what stays hot for a very long time? Thermite. Calling one of these grenades a "burner" wouldn't be a stretch. Here is what they look like:

Here is more info from globalsecurity.org on them. Structures are some of the listed uses for these types of grenades. I believe from what people heard on the scanner, that seven "burners" were used.

I'm pretty sure this is what a "burner" is.

reply posted on 13-2-2013 @ 12:53 PM by butcherguy

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

He barricaded himself, knowing by having BEEN on the side working against him, what they would next do. They did it...and he died..as he chose.

If that was his intention, why wouldn't he just barricade himself in a place somewhere days ago and give them a call to let them know where he was and to come get him?

IMO,(by his actions) he seems like a guy with some shooting skills that was surprised, a deer caught in the headlights. He ran into the cabin to avoid being killed, don't you think? If his idea was to die, why not just stand his ground in the open and shoot it out?

edit on 13-2-2013 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 13-2-2013 @ 12:55 PM by butcherguy

Originally posted by MystikMushroom
I'm pretty sure they used AN-M14 thermite grenades. They look very similar to CS gas or smoke grenades. Remember, the spokeswoman was telling the media that the rubble was "still to hot" -- well what stays hot for a very long time? Thermite. Calling one of these grenades a "burner" wouldn't be a stretch. Here is what they look like:

Here is more info from globalsecurity.org on them. Structures are some of the listed uses for these types of grenades. I believe from what people heard on the scanner, that seven "burners" were used.

I'm pretty sure this is what a "burner" is.

I don't know what they used, but judging by the radio traffic at the time, they were planning on the place catching fire. They didn't seem surprised after they used their pyrotechnics.... 'We've got fire', I believe that's how hey put it.

reply posted on 13-2-2013 @ 12:56 PM by Wildbob77

reply to post by OkieDokie

I believe that "burners" is police slang for tear gas. Sometimes the tear gas canisters cause fires. Hence the slang name burners.

People need to do some research before they assume this was an assassination.

Using tear gas to force someone out of a building seems like it's pretty routine.

Although if I owned the cabin, I'd expect the police to pay to rebuild.

reply posted on 13-2-2013 @ 12:57 PM by Wrabbit2000

reply to post by butcherguy

Why did he terrorize the couple that he did by holding them hostage? Why did he even remain in the L.A. area? I can say by experience and knowledge, he could have been in Albuqueque in 10 hours. He could have been eating breakfast in Missouri within 24 hours. (with a nap in there somwhere too!). Why did he murder the people he did?

I have no idea why a killer does what they do. I'd be one myself, I fear, if I could really answer that in a true sense. Scary thoughts down that path and understanding can be taken too far, IMO.. lol

In this case? I'm sure they did spook him a bit....but his decisions following first contact were his to make and he made them. He'd been a cop...he knew police tactics and he knew, better than most, how far they'd go when facing a no-win situation. If taking him alive meant more cops would die?

The attempts to take him alive would simply stop....and they did. Clearly. He had to have known all that too. After all, he was one himself and was a part of the training as well as real world situations where HE helped make those very decisions on other people.